The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[RicOfPeace]

Yeah I'd much rather have Sissokos work rate running the ball out of play and back to the opposition over game changing players...
As for the Song who needs Bale when you've got Sissoko... Fuck me if I was Gareth I'd want to kill myself hearing fans sing that about one of the shittest footballers to ever wear a Spurs shirt

 

[dondo]

Yeah I'd much rather have Sissokos work rate running the ball out of play and back to the opposition over game changing players...
As for the Song who needs Bale when you've got Sissoko... Fuck me if I was Gareth I'd want to kill myself hearing fans sing that about one of the shittest footballers to ever wear a Spurs shirt

Man are you thick. Another excuse to have a dig at sissoko
It takes many different types of players to make a team you know

 

[RicOfPeace]

Man are you thick. Another excuse to have a dig at sissoko
It takes many different types of players to make a team you know

Thick? Na honest Sissoko is shit and does the team no justice ANY time he plays it's a wasted position. I'd rather we played anyone from our youth team over that utter shit.

 

[IGSpur]

I find the tendency on here to blame it on Poch really annoying especially when he made a big push last season to bring Edwards into the first team, let's remember he spent nearly all of last season training with the first team and now he's taken a massive step backwards because so far this season he's not training with the first team at all.

Yet Poch and club decided to still try and tie him up to another contract despite this obvious attitude problem, despite him having reputation of not taking jip from anyone. Also one minute he is saying he isn't physically ready, despite him being physically ready against Gillingham then he says it's performance related, but Amos hasn't even performed that well for our u23s this year or last few years, and others have read into it that it is in attitude problem still yet he has signed Osvaldo, Aurier and Sissoko (3 players who have had different problems in the past), so what a now 19 year old is a step too far for him? It just sounds like more excuses and so many mixed messages.

It's sounds like the message Pep has sent Foden. Whether he plays is up to him. No it isn't it is upto the manager, stop putting the excuses and responsibility on the academy player. They do not choose the team the manager does. A youth player will not be 100% perfect and the manager needs to be the one to give them the chance and develop that, rather than waiting for the player to be 100% ready as otherwise they aren't getting that chance. An academy player can do every single things asked of them and still not get a chance, managers need to accept that if players don't come through under them it is their responsibltiy and they are the common denominator.

The worse thing about this is that if and ever he gets a chance there will be so much pressure on him to perform, and if eh does poorly people will stick it on him sadly. It wouldn't surprise me people wanting him to fail, especially after the whole contract thing or to prove Poch right.

And I don't see the issue in blaming Poch when under his tutelage he seems to have gone backwards while giving mix signals. I will always question managers decisions on bringing through youth players, when England's record, including Poch is so poor and completely at odds with the level of talent being produced. We are massively failing, and I will question it rather than just accepting this reputation based off nothing really.

 

[Hengy1]

Tbh I do think there’s a tendency nowadays for people wanting to rush players through to the first team.

Do I think Edwards should be given a chance yes of course but he’s only just turned 19 so he has plenty time for it to happen if it doesn’t happen this season.

There’s obviously been a lot of attention on Edwards yet not many are caring that poch has called up sterling ( to go along with Georgiou, ToB & Amos ) is pretty good going.

Once poch ( although I believe it’s McDermott calling the shots on this ) believes everything is aligned then Edwards will get the call up.

 

[raggy]

Yet Poch and club decided to still try and tie him up to another contract despite this obvious attitude problem, despite him having reputation of not taking jip from anyone. Also one minute he is saying he isn't physically ready, despite him being physically ready against Gillingham then he says it's performance related, but Amos hasn't even performed that well for our u23s this year or last few years, and others have read into it that it is in attitude problem still yet he has signed Osvaldo, Aurier and Sissoko (3 players who have had different problems in the past), so what a now 19 year old is a step too far for him? It just sounds like more excuses and so many mixed messages.

It's sounds like the message Pep has sent Foden. Whether he plays is up to him. No it isn't it is upto the manager, stop putting the excuses and responsibility on the academy player. They do not choose the team the manager does. A youth player will not be 100% perfect and the manager needs to be the one to give them the chance and develop that, rather than waiting for the player to be 100% ready as otherwise they aren't getting that chance. An academy player can do every single things asked of them and still not get a chance, managers need to accept that if players don't come through under them it is their responsibltiy and they are the common denominator.

The worse thing about this is that if and ever he gets a chance there will be so much pressure on him to perform, and if eh does poorly people will stick it on him sadly. It wouldn't surprise me people wanting him to fail, especially after the whole contract thing or to prove Poch right.

And I don't see the issue in blaming Poch when under his tutelage he seems to have gone backwards while giving mix signals. I will always question managers decisions on bringing through youth players, when England's record, including Poch is so poor and completely at odds with the level of talent being produced. We are massively failing, and I will question it rather than just accepting this reputation based off nothing really.

My issue with most of this narrative is that it's complete guess work. You know as much as me about the true problems with either Poch or Edwards, nothing. There just seems to be this tendency to absolve any youth player where it goes wrong and pin it all on Poch.

Do you think Poch had Edwards train nearly exclusively with the first team all last season as well as be in the travelling squad for nearly every game just to pull it all away from him for no reason? Why would he do that?

I've no idea what you're on about with the contract thing. Why would the club not want to offer him a new contract if they still believe he can turn it around?

Nobody has ever suggested Poch or the club have given up on him so why on earth would the club not put him on a new contract.

 

[DCSPUR]

@Allygold with his take here: http://www.football.london/tottenha...rcus-edwards-truth-behind-pochettino-13999084

Ally obviously spends a fair amount of time around the youth and first team so this struck me as interesting!

 

[Blake Griffin]

There’s obviously been a lot of attention on Edwards yet not many are caring that poch has called up sterling ( to go along with Georgiou, ToB & Amos ) is pretty good going.

perhaps because contrary to popular belief, it's not just about wanting to get as many youth players in the first team as possible, it's about seeing those whose performances have merited it and those who can potentially contribute and help the team now and in the future. the only one there of those four whose performances have warranted a call up is sterling and even that's in large part down to the lack of options we have up front(esp with kane being rested).

 

[longtimespur]

@Allygold with his take here: http://www.football.london/tottenha...rcus-edwards-truth-behind-pochettino-13999084

Ally obviously spends a fair amount of time around the youth and first team so this struck me as interesting!

Really good to read that, once I could get past the ads but does support what can be read into Poch's pressers.

 

[IGSpur]

Also not sure about this performing in training, work rate and attitude, when KWP somehow sits behind Aurier. I like Aurier, but he has been rash on occasions has questions over him off the pitch, not sure what he's like in training. KWP 2 goods games, heard from people he is a lovely person and good trainer and not seen since. I wonder if he'll be rewards for these qualities. I presume not.

Please for Sterling though, as I've heard so many positive things about him behind the scenes and he is improving.

Funny thing about Amos (and Georgiou) is if this thread had suggested Poch should use them for the first team, fans would have just complained saying that we think anyone can play for the first team and accused of overrating them. Amos has always worked hard, however hasn't really performed properly for 2 years. I remember speaking to his Dad, and he said that Luke told him that Milos was on a completely different level to him, and he is the one getting the chance. Please for him though and I don't doubt he'd slot in and look more than capable at this level, like Lesniak. He probably has the ability like most of our players to look more than capable in the Championship and above.

I understand the reasoning that we are weak in midfield, but if TOB has been training why not give him a go or even Skipp two players with more talent than Amos, and actually have the potential to be top players. As I said Amos will do fine,however I assume that he's being trusted as, he has got experience from going on loan. Ironically, as we know Poch doesn't like loans, he was probably only sent him on loan as he didn't see him as having a future here or being good enough. So I don't understand why, when Poch so very rarely gives any young player a chance, and when we so very rarely have these dead rubber matches is he going to give the opportunity to a player who likely has no future here like he did with Lesniak. It feels like he has wasted 2 opportunities there on players with no futures when he could have given valuable experience to players who would contribute to our first team in the future.

Only at Spurs can 3 relatively average be closer to the first team, than the best talents.

 

[Blake Griffin]

@Allygold with his take here: http://www.football.london/tottenha...rcus-edwards-truth-behind-pochettino-13999084

Ally obviously spends a fair amount of time around the youth and first team so this struck me as interesting!

ally spends a fair amount of time covering the youth and first team but other than asking a few questions in press conferences i don't think he spends any more time around them than you or i.

i used to enjoy his stuff but a lot of what he's written this season i've found to be quite agenda driven and he'll always look to divert any blame away from pochettino.

 

[IGSpur]

perhaps because contrary to popular belief, it's not just about wanting to get as many youth players in the first team as possible, it's about seeing those whose performances have merited it and those who can potentially contribute and help the team now and in the future. the only one there of those four whose performances have warranted a call up is sterling and even that's in large part down to the lack of options we have up front(esp with kane being rested).

Thank you. What everyone believes is we want players in the first team for the sake of it. No what we want is the best players given chances to help improve the first team. We're not counting stats for the sake of counting stats. When Stoke don't through players through I don't care as they don't have a great academy and not many top talents are being wasted. When we don't bring young players through it means, we are wasting loads of talent, that could benefit us. If we don't think someone is good enough we won't suggest them.

 

[Hengy1]

perhaps because contrary to popular belief, it's not just about wanting to get as many youth players in the first team as possible, it's about seeing those whose performances have merited it and those who can potentially contribute and help the team now and in the future. the only one there of those four whose performances have warranted a call up is sterling and even that's in large part down to the lack of options we have up front(esp with kane being rested).

You say only sterling warrants the call up but Georgiou for instance did very well preseason when he probably only got called up to make numbers up and ever since had stayed with the first team squad. He even had a good cameo in there reverse fixture.

Now you have absolutely no idea what has gone on with him ever since. Has he performed good enough to stay with the team and in that time showed great attitude and willingness to learn. Has he even come on leaps and bounds playing with better players? Who knows, we’ll the management team does.

We get to sterling that has been called up for lack of options but if it was just that the Harrison would’ve just got the call up right?

Poch has said it’s because his unbelievable good behaviour and attitude is what gave him the opportunity.

For me Edwards clearly needs to work harder but he’s still young and there’s plenty off time.

 

[Hengy1]

ally spends a fair amount of time covering the youth and first team but other than asking a few questions in press conferences i don't think he spends any more time around them than you or i.

i used to enjoy his stuff but a lot of what he's written this season i've found to be quite agenda driven and he'll always look to divert any blame away from pochettino.

It’s a pretty spot on read tbh

 

[IGSpur]

My issue with most of this narrative is that it's complete guess work. You know as much as me about the true problems with either Poch or Edwards, nothing. There just seems to be this tendency to absolve any youth player where it goes wrong and pin it all on Poch.

Do you think Poch had Edwards train nearly exclusively with the first team all last season as well as be in the travelling squad for nearly every game just to pull it all away from him for no reason? Why would he do that?

I've no idea what you're on about with the contract thing. Why would the club not want to offer him a new contract if they still believe he can turn it around?

Nobody has ever suggested Poch or the club have given up on him so why on earth would the club not put him on a new contract.

You're right but then it wasn't me that suggested, anything. I'm commenting on another fan interpreting what Poch said as suggesting Edwards has an attitude problem. You can read back if you like. My assessment was based of the hypocrisy of Poch's words/actions, which I think is fair to comment on.

Conversely I think there is a tendency to absolve any manager of responsibility when he doesn't bring any academy players through and pin it all on the young player. I think this is evident from the majority of the comments I read and yet is completely at odds, with the fact that England are producing the best youth players in the world, yet are being given the fewest opportunities. What I see is English clubs and England youth teams smashing other nations teams. I read unbiased opinions from youth coaches and Sporting Directors who have more knowledge of the game than you and I, that say England are easily producing better players than any other country, where we are one of the 3 best academies. Yet are getting fewer opportunities than their contemporaries. I don't rely on the opinion of managers, who face the risk of being sacked if a decision doesn't pay off, and choosing the easy option of relying on 'experience' or signed players. I don't think their opinion is unbiased at all and there are many factors clouding their judgement.

I see academy players doing everything they can to prove they are better than their contemporaries, and yet people point the finger at the young people not being good enough, and not at the manager or clubs for failing to bring them through. How does that work? These guys works their asses of all through the academy system work their asses of during tournaments but apparently down tools when they are one step away from achieving their dream after all that hard work. The claim is they aren't putting the effort in to earn first team football. Something smells fishy to me, but I know where the easy blame lies, and managers can hide behind the 'I see them in training you don't' mantra. I guess England will continue to waste talent, and we will never ever question why, but then complain when there is a lack of talent to choose from at the World Cup. I know why there's no talent, and I challenge it, why do you think England doesn't have the talent available despite dominating at youth football?

Do you think Poch had Edwards train nearly exclusively with the first team all last season as well as be in the travelling squad for nearly every game just to pull it all away from him for no reason? Why would he do that?

No I don't but I question then, why under Poch's tutelage has he regressed? Can we question that. Is it a case where if he comes off it's great work by Poch and if he doesn't it's Edwards fault? If Edwards comes through I will praise Poch's bravery, coaching, management. If he doesn't I want to know why it didn't happen and feel I can question. However, I imagine, if Edwards doesn't get his chance you will blame Edwards' attitude but if he does come through won't say it was because of Edwards but because of Poch. And that's my point, above, managers will always be absolved of the blame here, it will always be the player's fault. Same with Guardiola and Foden. If Guardiola doesn't bring Foden through I will consider that his failure, yet he has already planted the seed in everyone's mind that has been bought, that if Foden doesn't come through it will be his fault and not Pep's. The 200m worth of attacking talent in front of him won't matter, the fact that he will spend another 200m it will all be Foden's fault, for not working hard enough.

Our players have done all they can. McDermott has done all he can, our players have done all they can have proven themselves to be better than their contemporaries nationally and internationally over the lat 18 years, only one person is responsible for their journey this point onwards and that is Poch. Winks for example, McDermott did an incredible job in getting him to a PL standard. Winks has worked incredibly hard to get to a PL standard. he was good enough for PL football fro at least a season before h was first introduced, his ability was exactly the same as when he got introduced. He was just waiting for Poch to start giving him opportunities, He couldn't do more, and I praised Poch for taking that step, and I will always praise him for converting academy players to first teamers, unfortunately he has only done it once, despite plenty being good enough.

It's like Son for us. He's been performing as well as Alli he has been working his ass off for this club, but no matter what he does, he still struggles to get starts and will always be the fall guy, even when say Alli underperforms. Why do you think that is? You think Son, isn't working as hard as Alli in training? Plenty of people think that Son should be playing ahead of Alli, I see no one bringing up that Alli must be doing better in training. Son has performed but ultimately the manager will make the decision regardless of how well Son is doing. No one asks the same questions that get asked of academy players, but everyone feels like they question Poch even though he sees them in training. My my point is you can works as hard as you want if the manager doesn't want to choose you, he won't and that is what can happen to academy players.

I've no idea what you're on about with the contract thing. Why would the club not want to offer him a new contract if they still believe he can turn it around?

Nobody has ever suggested Poch or the club have given up on him so why on earth would the club not put him on a new contract.

My point was, if Edwards has this bad attitude which is being implied by others not me, why would we offer him a new contract? We would be rewarding that poor attitude, plus one bad apple can spoilt the cart. I don't think Edwards has a bad attitude people are saying he does. I've seen his off the ball work improve considerably, and his general performance remain consistent. I have seen him start on the bench at the u19s Euros and come on during 2 stalemates and under pressure turn the game on his head and help them win the Euros, and not sulk for being on the bench. I have no qualms over Edwards attitude, hence I why we have offered him a contract.

 

[IGSpur]

You say only sterling warrants the call up but Georgiou for instance did very well preseason when he probably only got called up to make numbers up and ever since had stayed with the first team squad. He even had a good cameo in there reverse fixture.

Now you have absolutely no idea what has gone on with him ever since. Has he performed good enough to stay with the team and in that time showed great attitude and willingness to learn. Has he even come on leaps and bounds playing with better players? Who knows, we’ll the management team does.

We get to sterling that has been called up for lack of options but if it was just that the Harrison would’ve just got the call up right?

Poch has said it’s because his unbelievable good behaviour and attitude is what gave him the opportunity.

For me Edwards clearly needs to work harder but he’s still young and there’s plenty off time.

I assume BG was basing it on what he has seen.

If Georgiou plays like he did in the 14/15 season great. He is no doubt their due to his attitude and he is ability is more than good enough to keep him there. If he is improving then great, he is very effective, but I still don't think he is as good as Edwards. However, if work-rate more than ability is what we want to help improve the squad then he;s your man, if ability more than work-rate is what you want to improve your squad then Edwards your man. They both have ability and they both have workrate just at different levels, however one can be coached and worked on more than the other. One will help break down a stubborn defence and be worth loads of money the other won't. Again Georgiou will more than cope and beat players, but it's like Townsend he has a limit, if that's what we want brilliant and I'd be happy to see George player, won't stop me from lamenting what we'd miss in Edwards.

Harrison may not be called up for others reasons, but either way, I wouldn't say that Harrison's ability is so much greater than Sterling's, some would argue if at all, to warrant playing him over Sterling's superior work rate.

 

[Hengy1]

I do love how it’s poch yet all he’ll will be getting is reports from McDermott.

How much do you think poch actually sees off these youth footballers? Not much is my guess bar reports & videos from he’s given from McDermott.

As for the comment earlier about him not great with young players I find is totally wrong.

He’s very good with young players, it’s youth players he’s probably not great with.

Young players like Dele & Sanchez he doesn’t have no worries with but that mainly because they come with experience before hand.

I believe next season will be the season for a couple of these players to get the time for first team action and we’ll all be very happy

 

[Blake Griffin]

You say only sterling warrants the call up but Georgiou for instance did very well preseason when he probably only got called up to make numbers up and ever since had stayed with the first team squad. He even had a good cameo in there reverse fixture.

Now you have absolutely no idea what has gone on with him ever since. Has he performed good enough to stay with the team and in that time showed great attitude and willingness to learn. Has he even come on leaps and bounds playing with better players? Who knows, we’ll the management team does.

We get to sterling that has been called up for lack of options but if it was just that the Harrison would’ve just got the call up right?

Poch has said it’s because his unbelievable good behaviour and attitude is what gave him the opportunity.

For me Edwards clearly needs to work harder but he’s still young and there’s plenty off time.

personally i didn't see anything particularly noteworthy from georgiou's pre-season performances(or against apoel, how many times did he even touch the ball?) but regardless of that, it just proves that even a fairly unfancied player can make an impact if given the chance. i don't know what he's done since, i did see his last performance a month or two ago for the u23s where he was the weakest attacking player on the field though ... but hey, at least he's well behaved.

as for sterling, i didn't say the only reason he got called up was a lack of options but that it has clearly played a part. if kane wasn't in need of a rest and llorente had actually done what he was signed to do then sterling wouldn't be involved. sterling or harrison i don't really have a massive preference as to which of the two are called up, harrison's time has perhaps come and gone so going with sterling makes sense. i'm happy for sterling, he's still done far less on the pitch than edwards has though.

 

[Hengy1]

personally i didn't see anything particularly noteworthy from georgiou's pre-season performances(or against apoel, how many times did he even touch the ball?) but regardless of that, it just proves that even a fairly unfancied player can make an impact if given the chance. i don't know what he's done since, i did see his last performance a month or two ago for the u23s where he was the weakest attacking player on the field though ... but hey, at least he's well behaved.

as for sterling, i didn't say the only reason he got called up was a lack of options but that it has clearly played a part. if kane wasn't in need of a rest and llorente had actually done what he was signed to do then sterling wouldn't be involved. sterling or harrison i don't really have a massive preference as to which of the two are called up, harrison's time has perhaps come and gone so going with sterling makes sense. i'm happy for sterling, he's still done far less on the pitch than edwards has though.

Isn’t resting main players normally the reason youth players get a chance?

Sterling performances especially in UYL have been very good and definitely deserved his call up. No doubt about it.

 

[Streetspur77]

Also not sure about this performing in training, work rate and attitude, when KWP somehow sits behind Aurier. I like Aurier, but he has been rash on occasions has questions over him off the pitch, not sure what he's like in training. KWP 2 goods games, heard from people he is a lovely person and good trainer and not seen since. I wonder if he'll be rewards for these qualities. I presume not.

Please for Sterling though, as I've heard so many positive things about him behind the scenes and he is improving.

Funny thing about Amos (and Georgiou) is if this thread had suggested Poch should use them for the first team, fans would have just complained saying that we think anyone can play for the first team and accused of overrating them. Amos has always worked hard, however hasn't really performed properly for 2 years. I remember speaking to his Dad, and he said that Luke told him that Milos was on a completely different level to him, and he is the one getting the chance. Please for him though and I don't doubt he'd slot in and look more than capable at this level, like Lesniak. He probably has the ability like most of our players to look more than capable in the Championship and above.

I understand the reasoning that we are weak in midfield, but if TOB has been training why not give him a go or even Skipp two players with more talent than Amos, and actually have the potential to be top players. As I said Amos will do fine,however I assume that he's being trusted as, he has got experience from going on loan. Ironically, as we know Poch doesn't like loans, he was probably only sent him on loan as he didn't see him as having a future here or being good enough. So I don't understand why, when Poch so very rarely gives any young player a chance, and when we so very rarely have these dead rubber matches is he going to give the opportunity to a player who likely has no future here like he did with Lesniak. It feels like he has wasted 2 opportunities there on players with no futures when he could have given valuable experience to players who would contribute to our first team in the future.

Only at Spurs can 3 relatively average be closer to the first team, than the best talents.

The bit at the end, and the general opinions of many youth watchers, seem to imply poch and McDermott have some master plan to waste the academy and ruin Edwards's career, in particular

They are promoting whoever they think will have the best impact on the first team at the same time as it being the best for the youth player in question, NOTHING else, to believe otherwise is crazy

For whatever reason, two people who will forget more about football then we will all ever know, think that It's more beneficial for everyone involved if, say Amos plays rather than skipp, and I for one am willing trust them on that, it's not a race and skipp will get his chance when they feel is right