The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[IGSpur]

Tbf he’s been poor

Tonight, yes, against the best attack in the league but if you're implying it was the wrong decision to give him a chance or that Arsenal are struggling due to him, it shows the mentality of fans with youth players. If Arsenal lose or are poor it isn't down to him.

Koscielny made a mistake, so what? An inexperience player out of position will make a mistake, but hey so did an experienced one in their favourite position. The difference is that mistake will be used to say the young player isn't ready or should or be justification for him not to play the next game. The experienced player won't face that same pressure. I commend Wenger for having balls and giving him a try, it's something Poch is hailed and regarded for and he barely does it himself.

It is the 3rd player I believe since Poch has arrived that Wenger has taken from academy to PL starts, while Poch has done it once, but the risk he faces is them making a mistake like any other player and then getting questioned for it. It's also precisely why, managers shit themselves with giving youth players a chance as fans will turn on them and then the manager as they are an easy scapegoat. I remember at my cricket club a 14 year old would get promoted to the first team. The team get bowled for 130, and the 14 year old gets 15 and will be the one dropped for the next game. Surely it is the responsibility of the other 10 players who didn't turn up and take responsibility. This isn't a personal attack at you of course but it is just something that happens in youth football.

Aurier has made plenty of mistakes this year but is being persisted with let's give the youngsters some leeway too

 

[IGSpur]

Strengths:
- balance
- dribbling (arguably 3rd best dribbler in squad after Dembele and Edwards)
- technically proficient
- sensible in possession
- decent recovery pace
- reads the game well

Weaknesses:
- could take a few more risks with the ball
- could hit the byline more
- could improve crossing
- small (but tenacious) which some would see as a risk

Only things I'd debate their. Though you have acknowledged his crossing can improve I'd say it's a relative strength right now in that he can do it decently off either foot at the moment. Reading of the game has improved a lot like you say.

I think his link up play is really good around the box if I remember, he used to take more risks but has gone into his shell more since playing at LB and in his chances for the first team, maybe due to the fact he knows if he makes a mistake he won't be seen again. It's frustrating as we know there is so much more to come, but it doesn't feel like he feels he has the platform to express himself

 

[Hengy1]

Tonight, yes, against the best attack in the league but if you're implying it was the wrong decision to give him a chance or that Arsenal are struggling due to him, it shows the mentality of fans with youth players. If Arsenal lose or are poor it isn't down to him.

Koscielny made a mistake, so what? An inexperience player out of position will make a mistake, but hey so did an experienced one in their favourite position. The difference is that mistake will be used to say the young player isn't ready or should or be justification for him not to play the next game. The experienced player won't face that same pressure. I commend Wenger for having balls and giving him a try, it's something Poch is hailed and regarded for and he barely does it himself.

It is the 3rd player I believe since Poch has arrived that Wenger has taken from academy to PL starts, while Poch has done it once, but the risk he faces is them making a mistake like any other player and then getting questioned for it. It's also precisely why, managers shit themselves with giving youth players a chance as fans will turn on them and then the manager as they are an easy scapegoat. I remember at my cricket club a 14 year old would get promoted to the first team. The team get bowled for 130, and the 14 year old gets 15 and will be the one dropped for the next game. Surely it is the responsibility of the other 10 players who didn't turn up and take responsibility. This isn't a personal attack at you of course but it is just something that happens in youth football.

Aurier has made plenty of mistakes this year but is being persisted with let's give the youngsters some leeway too

Wow that was a load off guff wasn’t it .

You used it as a example and was it the right or wrong decision I’ll let Wenger decide that but he was poor.

 

[IGSpur]

Wow that was a load off guff wasn’t it .

You used it as a example and was it the right or wrong decision I’ll let Wenger decide that but he was poor.

A lot of players were, well done to Wenger for giving him the chance

 

[Blake Griffin]

A lot of players were, well done to Wenger for giving him the chance

actually thought he did relatively well tbh and reading through twitter most comments seem to be pretty positive.

anyway, i don't really care about amn but to me he's just an example that a lot of these kids can quite easily come in and at least hold their own.

 

[Hengy1]

actually thought he did relatively well tbh and reading through twitter most comments seem to be pretty positive.

anyway, i don't really care about amn but to me he's just an example that a lot of these kids can quite easily come in and at least hold their own.

There’s no doubting most of these kids can come in ( although AMN wasn’t good today but he’s never a left back in a million years and shouldn’t have been playing it ).

For instance as my personal preference I really like Bennett’s and think he should have Nkoudou spot in the team.

Our problem is we have a great starting 11 and a good back up one so for any academy players it’s a tough road.

Poch trusts young players No doubting that though.

 

[IGSpur]

actually thought he did relatively well tbh and reading through twitter most comments seem to be pretty positive.

anyway, i don't really care about amn but to me he's just an example that a lot of these kids can quite easily come in and at least hold their own.

Not gong to lie only saw one half of the game. Heard he was at fault for first goal but generally thought he did OK, just went by what Hengy said.

As you know, either way whether he did well or not isn't the point. The point is that Wenger took the 'risk' despite his relative inexpereince and it being a big game, something not done enough in the PL, and something Poch is widely praised for. I agree with you

 

[Streetspur77]

I'm confused as to why it's good to just 'take the risk' whether it works out or not.

Fair enough if people feel poch isn't good at bringing through youth players, whatever, but how can you praise wenger for randomly playing a youth player out of position against a direct rival no matter how well it works? I didn't watch but if AMN played badly then wenger has made a mistake, if poch plays KWP up front tomorrow are we just gonna praise him?

IMO managers should be praised for successfully intergrating players, something poch has a 100% record of btw, rather than just shoehorning them in, that doesn't help anyone

 

[Blake Griffin]

There’s no doubting most of these kids can come in ( although AMN wasn’t good today but he’s never a left back in a million years and shouldn’t have been playing it ).

For instance as my personal preference I really like Bennett’s and think he should have Nkoudou spot in the team.

Our problem is we have a great starting 11 and a good back up one so for any academy players it’s a tough road.

Poch trusts young players No doubting that though.

if that's the case then we're probably better off just going down the chelsea route and getting them all out on loan then. poch's idealistic approach of keeping them all in-house and gradually bringing them through just isn't realistic. i also really struggle to understand why training with the first team means they can now no longer play games at youth level, by doing so poch is effectively saying that games are of no benefit but that's not something i can agree with. someone like skipp for example just seems to keep getting better and better with every game he plays but i fear it won't be long until he's whisked away into poch's netherworld and not to be seen again until he's hitting 20-21.

 

[Blake Griffin]

I'm confused as to why it's good to just 'take the risk' whether it works out or not.

Fair enough if people feel poch isn't good at bringing through youth players, whatever, but how can you praise wenger for randomly playing a youth player out of position against a direct rival no matter how well it works? I didn't watch but if AMN played badly then wenger has made a mistake, if poch plays KWP up front tomorrow are we just gonna praise him?

IMO managers should be praised for successfully intergrating players, something poch has a 100% record of btw, rather than just shoehorning them in, that doesn't help anyone

100% record? remind me again, where's onomah?

 

[Hengy1]

if that's the case then we're probably better off just going down the chelsea route and getting them all out on loan then. poch's idealistic approach of keeping them all in-house and gradually bringing them through just isn't realistic. i also really struggle to understand why training with the first team means they can now no longer play games at youth level, by doing so poch is effectively saying that games are of no benefit but that's not something i can agree with. someone like skipp for example just seems to keep getting better and better with every game he plays but i fear it won't be long until he's whisked away into poch's netherworld and not to be seen again until he's hitting 20-21.

I like the bring them into first team training and if they don’t breakthrough within 2 years they get a loan but within this they should still play youth games.

Let’s be honest we have a good chance we’ll be in the Europa next season so maybe a few of these will get thier chance like they are at Arsenal atm.

It’s a tough job to blood academy players while trying to maintain high expectations.

I don’t envy managers one bit.

 

[thinktank]

Don’t think he has fallen out of favour. Just believe Poch can be a bit stubborn in some of his beliefs, and this could be detrimental if he wants to progress to be a great manager. My opinion ofcourse.

This is true.

 

[Streetspur77]

100% record? remind me again, where's onomah?

Being on loan isn't a failure, I doubt I have to remind you of Kane, mason or Townsend, maybe if onomah comes back next year and poch fails to integrate him then you've got a point

Anyway that was a just a lil joke, don't think it takes anything away from the point

 

[Blake Griffin]

I like the bring them into first team training and if they don’t breakthrough within 2 years they get a loan but within this they should still play youth games.

Let’s be honest we have a good chance we’ll be in the Europa next season so maybe a few of these will get thier chance like they are at Arsenal atm.

It’s a tough job to blood academy players while trying to maintain high expectations.

I don’t envy managers one bit.

if kwp, onomah and edwards haven't managed to do it then i don't have much confidence in the next lot being able to do so, apart from skipp possibly. poch already has tob up with him now(though injured at the moment) so i'm not sure how he's going to juggle the two of them whilst trying to bring them through, then you might have onomah to come back into the mix as well just to make things even more complicated.

 

[EQP]

if that's the case then we're probably better off just going down the chelsea route and getting them all out on loan then. poch's idealistic approach of keeping them all in-house and gradually bringing them through just isn't realistic. i also really struggle to understand why training with the first team means they can now no longer play games at youth level, by doing so poch is effectively saying that games are of no benefit but that's not something i can agree with. someone like skipp for example just seems to keep getting better and better with every game he plays but i fear it won't be long until he's whisked away into poch's netherworld and not to be seen again until he's hitting 20-21.

This. Foyth, KWP etc could do with minutes to stay sharp and actually put into effect what they've learned training with the first team. I'm really just stuck on the fact that Poch isn't open to trying KWP in another position. Having seen bits of him and talking to you informed gents, I really don't understand why KWP can't get some minutes as an AM/ in place of Sissoko.

 

[Hengy1]

if kwp, onomah and edwards haven't managed to do it then i don't have much confidence in the next lot being able to do so, apart from skipp possibly. poch already has tob up with him now(though injured at the moment) so i'm not sure how he's going to juggle the two of them whilst trying to bring them through, then you might have onomah to come back into the mix as well just to make things even more complicated.

Tbf KWP is still unknown although he has 4 good players in front so most likely will go out on loan next season.

Onomah never really showed much once he got his chances although not in his position. Hopefully this loan will help him understand moving up to men’s football week in week out.

Edwards moved back down after a injury hit ( and contract problems ) season. Hopefully a good season playing he’ll move back up.

Skipp looks to me a far superior player than ToB and if it’s one or the other Skipp will win.

Like I say it’s a tough job.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I'm confused as to why it's good to just 'take the risk' whether it works out or not.

Fair enough if people feel poch isn't good at bringing through youth players, whatever, but how can you praise wenger for randomly playing a youth player out of position against a direct rival no matter how well it works? I didn't watch but if AMN played badly then wenger has made a mistake, if poch plays KWP up front tomorrow are we just gonna praise him?

IMO managers should be praised for successfully intergrating players, something poch has a 100% record of btw, rather than just shoehorning them in, that doesn't help anyone

I don't think anyone is saying that it's always good whether it works out or not. None of us want to see any or every kid thrown into the first team, especially not out of position, as it rarely does them any good as they can't show their best anyway. I think IG just meant that at least Wenger was prepared to trust a kid there, give him the responsibility, and for the record, I watched the game and he did fine, especially considering who he was up against, two of the leagues quickest and most prolific players right now.

As far as that "100% record" and "just shoehorning goes", where does constantly playing Onomah as a winger fit into either of those ?

 

[IGSpur]

I'm confused as to why it's good to just 'take the risk' whether it works out or not.

Fair enough if people feel poch isn't good at bringing through youth players, whatever, but how can you praise wenger for randomly playing a youth player out of position against a direct rival no matter how well it works? I didn't watch but if AMN played badly then wenger has made a mistake, if poch plays KWP up front tomorrow are we just gonna praise him?

IMO managers should be praised for successfully intergrating players, something poch has a 100% record of btw, rather than just shoehorning them in, that doesn't help anyone

I'm confused as well as I don't think anyone believes that. Why would you do that if you don't think it will work?

I'm praising Wenger as he obviously thought that despite his inexperience AMN was the player he needed to do the job for him on that day, even if he was out of position. He trusted him to do the job and apparently he generally played well. That's a big chance to take, and so I am praising him for it. Most managers won't even play a player better than him in their strongest position due to the risk involved. That is why he is being commended. He didn't just through him in for the sake of it or take a risk for the sake of it, again something no one is advocating. I'm praising him for putting trust in an academy player in a PL match something that isn't seen enough.

Re: the KWP example if Poch felt it was to benefit the team on that occasion and it worked then brilliant. If he thought KWP is what we needed, and it didn't work like with most things around formations, I will generally give him the benefit of the doubt as a one off, if he tries something and it didn't pay off. Either way I don't undersand why he would as KWP hasn't played as a striker sinc ehe was 16. If he constantly played him there while he clearly is poor there I would ask what he is doing the same way I don't understand why he plays Onomah constantly on the wing. As a one off, trying Onomah on the wing to give a chance I don't have a problem, but only playing them out of position when it isn't workign is stupid and I wouldn't want a player no matter what age academy or not playing in a role they are no good at.

No one is advocating youth for youth sake. Wenger trusting an u20 World Cup winger in an unfamiliar role is bold and praiseworthy. The same as when Bilic used Oxford in an unfamiliar position, I doubt you criticised Bilic for that.

Your opinion is fair no right or wrong way to assess him. I praise managers for their general use of their academy, and imo Poch has shown to use it less than ever before and apparently less than some of his rivals in the league

 

[IGSpur]

Skipp looks to me a far superior player than ToB and if it’s one or the other Skipp will win.

Funnily enough that is based off the fact you're seeing Skipp in matches, whereas TOB is being integrated into the first team by training with them. Surely this implies that Poch thinks that TOB is better than Skipp? Surely you can't be going against Poch's judgement as he is seeing them in training

 

[Blake Griffin]

Being on loan isn't a failure, I doubt I have to remind you of Kane, mason or Townsend, maybe if onomah comes back next year and poch fails to integrate him then you've got a point

Anyway that was a just a lil joke, don't think it takes anything away from the point

perhaps not a failure but to turn to a loan move after 30 first team apps is a bit like conceding that it hasn't worked out as planned. when a player is successfully integrated poch gets all the credit but on the other hand if they don't make it then it's the player's fault so poch seems to be on for a 100% record no matter what. i know people will think i just have an unwavering bias towards academy players and will just blame poch if it doesn't work out but i don't have any problem with how he's handled ccv for example, just with onomah i don't think he's really given him the best chance to succeed so far.