The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[Hengy1]

Funnily enough that is based off the fact you're seeing Skipp in matches, whereas TOB is being integrated into the first team by training with them. Surely this implies that Poch thinks that TOB is better than Skipp? Surely you can't be going against Poch's judgement as he is seeing them in training

I’m going off seeing both play tbh. Skipp with spurs and ToB recently with England so nothing really funny about it.

It probably means Poch thinks ToB is ahead slightly head of Skipp atm so I’m not going against anyone judgement but putting mine in to a question about juggling both going forward in the future

 

[Streetspur77]

perhaps not a failure but to turn to a loan move after 30 first team apps is a bit like conceding that it hasn't worked out as planned. when a player is successfully integrated poch gets all the credit but on the other hand if they don't make it then it's the player's fault so poch seems to be on for a 100% record no matter what. i know people will think i just have an unwavering bias towards academy players and will just blame poch if it doesn't work out but i don't have any problem with how he's handled ccv for example, just with onomah i don't think he's really given him the best chance to succeed so far.

If onomah doesn't work out then imo everyone involved will have to take some blame. I'm just holding my judgement on what happens with KWP, Edwards and onomah. If none of them successfully come through then poch had failed but that hasn't happened yet and that why I defend him

 

[Blake Griffin]

I’m going off seeing both play tbh. Skipp with spurs and ToB recently with England so nothing really funny about it.

It probably means Poch thinks ToB is ahead slightly head of Skipp atm so I’m not going against anyone judgement but putting mine in to a question about juggling both going forward in the future

i think skipp is quite some way ahead as well to be fair, the way he's playing now reminds me of how winks was playing in his final six months for the u21s ... and winks was 20 by that point whilst skipp's still only 17. regardless of how well he's playing though, getting chances for spurs is going to be incredibly difficult. both of them should be playing as many games as possible at their age and tob especially still has a lot to learn.

 

[thefierycamel]

This is only my opinion and it doesn't mean that much here but i think poch's been a bit overrated so far when it comes to playing our youth. I genuinely believe that onomah is superior to winks yet poch has trusted the inferior player in midfield whilst playing the other out of position and then, when he hasn't performed, sent him out on loan. The sad thing is he would have had plenty of opportunities this season in the middle with all of our injuries (should start there over sissoko and dele albeit then again poch wouldn't even play him there in pre-season where the results were utterly meaningless).

Edwards should have had way more game time than he currently has. We're talking about a potential generational talent here that seemingly isn't better than someone like sissoko. I don't buy it and i think that it's just poch being stubborn and then citing work ethic as his excuse. I'd take someone who can pass a ball over someone who can run a lot if it's the last 20 minutes of a match (unless sissoko is coming on in midfield).

KWP should be on the bench in pretty much every match as a back up to both fullback yet a lot of the time the other senior fullbacks are preferred despite them being unlikely to feature, especially against lower teams.

It has started to get frustrating now. I'm sick of senior players making the same mistakes or failing to break teams down and then our kids not getting the chance to play when many have the talent required to perform at this level. If there's 10-20 minutes left and we need a goal against a team parked in the box what good is sissoko going to do as opposed to edwards or shashoua? It just doesn't even make sense sometimes.

 

[coy-spurs1882]

the problem is our only advantage over those scums (better prospect to first team) would be lost if talents like onomah, kwp and edwards failed to be a first team player. we won't be able to attract young talents anymore as we do not offer big contracts and not offer a first team place to them

 

[C0YS]

This is only my opinion and it doesn't mean that much here but i think poch's been a bit overrated so far when it comes to playing our youth. I genuinely believe that onomah is superior to winks yet poch has trusted the inferior player in midfield whilst playing the other out of position and then, when he hasn't performed, sent him out on loan. The sad thing is he would have had plenty of opportunities this season in the middle with all of our injuries (should start there over sissoko and dele albeit then again poch wouldn't even play him there in pre-season where the results were utterly meaningless).

Edwards should have had way more game time than he currently has. We're talking about a potential generational talent here that seemingly isn't better than someone like sissoko. I don't buy it and i think that it's just poch being stubborn and then citing work ethic as his excuse. I'd take someone who can pass a ball over someone who can run a lot if it's the last 20 minutes of a match (unless sissoko is coming on in midfield).

KWP should be on the bench in pretty much every match as a back up to both fullback yet a lot of the time the other senior fullbacks are preferred despite them being unlikely to feature, especially against lower teams.

It has started to get frustrating now. I'm sick of senior players making the same mistakes or failing to break teams down and then our kids not getting the chance to play when many have the talent required to perform at this level. If there's 10-20 minutes left and we need a goal against a team parked in the box what good is sissoko going to do as opposed to edwards or shashoua? It just doesn't even make sense sometimes.

So you think arguebly our best player this season is worse than a player who is doing alright in Villaa but isn't setting the world alight. OK.

Onomah might be the better talent, but rarely does that translate in making the better players.

 

[coys200]

I’d imagine Wenger knows what’s coming. They have 15 senior players either contract ends in summer or 1 year left or 30+. In next 2 seasons they will have to revamp their whole squad with very little funds coming in player sales, they are in massive trouble imo unless owners stump up huge cash. They need to spend £300-400m next 2 years just to stand still. That’s never gonna happen which is why Wenger is preparing the youth. Rocky times ahead for our North London friends.

 

[thefierycamel]

So you think arguebly our best player this season is worse than a player who is doing alright in Villaa but isn't setting the world alight. OK.

Onomah might be the better talent, but rarely does that translate in making the better players.

Winks is fine mate but (in my opinion, only) Onomah offers more skill on the ball and tends to look forward more when he gets it. Winks is definitely the safer option (older, takes less risks and a fine passer) which is why he got the nod but i completely believe that Josh would be a more threatening player. In any case, they should both be playing; Dembele is coming to the end and I really don't want Sissoko in there as his back up. Winks, Onomah, Wanyama and Dembele is a fine midfield 4, especially when we have TOB, Skipp and Maghoma to come through in the next 3-5 years.

 

[BPR_U16]

Really want the youngsters to come through but we need to be careful how we do it and so hard to get right.
Finished 2nd last year, 3rd year before and we have gently brought young players in - admittedly not all from our ranks.
Wenger has been praised for playing one of their kids last night - even though out of position. Poch played Josh out of position few times last year and got slated - and still does today.
Josh goes out on loan this year because he wanted to, needed the experience and most youth watchers agreed.
And guess what - has played out of position too many times at Villa too!!
Then, we have a number of injuries this season in the position he plays .............

We are now coming to a transfer window, what we do now is going to impact so much on the development of some of these players. Do we go out and buy to cover those sold, blocking off the progression like KWP, or we are looking to merely bring our own through.
If there was the possibiliy should we be looking to sign the Sessengong bros or will the likes of Bennetts see their path blocked?

 

[Blake Griffin]

credit to @Jake1882 for the video.

 

[Hengy1]

credit to @Jake1882 for the video.

Really like Bennett’s

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

credit to @Jake1882 for the video.

The lad looks the business doesnt he, very tricky and has the power to drive past players reminds me a little of Walker the way he drives but more tricky. love the work you chaps put in, fantastic.

 

[Dharmabum]

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy this thread a lot, but it has become a tedious anti-Poch-we-know-better-than-Poch thread.
Some comments on here really strongly claim that Poch does not think for the best of the team and is not fielding the best possible teams for each occasions because he "stobbornly" does not want to give some academy players a chance.
If that really is the case - i.e. that Poch is hindering Spurs getting better results because he does not want to field "better" academy player because a hidden personal agenda - then Spurs should sack him And I believe Levy would have sacked him IF that was the case.
Again, there is a HUGE difference between flying past opponents in the various academy leagues and doing the same in the EPL. Plus, defensive flaws - even minor ones - are often mercilessly taken advantage of in the EPL (and other top leagues/CL). Some players make the transition to the EPL smoothly while others don't. If one does it it doesn't means others would as well.
I am not saying Poch is faultless but give him a break when it comes to how many academy players he is "refusing" to field...

 

[coys200]

The way Edwards runs/moves reminds me of Hazard so much.

 

[Dharmabum]

This is only my opinion and it doesn't mean that much here but i think poch's been a bit overrated so far when it comes to playing our youth. I genuinely believe that onomah is superior to winks yet poch has trusted the inferior player in midfield whilst playing the other out of position and then, when he hasn't performed, sent him out on loan. The sad thing is he would have had plenty of opportunities this season in the middle with all of our injuries (should start there over sissoko and dele albeit then again poch wouldn't even play him there in pre-season where the results were utterly meaningless).

Edwards should have had way more game time than he currently has. We're talking about a potential generational talent here that seemingly isn't better than someone like sissoko. I don't buy it and i think that it's just poch being stubborn and then citing work ethic as his excuse. I'd take someone who can pass a ball over someone who can run a lot if it's the last 20 minutes of a match (unless sissoko is coming on in midfield).

KWP should be on the bench in pretty much every match as a back up to both fullback yet a lot of the time the other senior fullbacks are preferred despite them being unlikely to feature, especially against lower teams.

It has started to get frustrating now. I'm sick of senior players making the same mistakes or failing to break teams down and then our kids not getting the chance to play when many have the talent required to perform at this level. If there's 10-20 minutes left and we need a goal against a team parked in the box what good is sissoko going to do as opposed to edwards or shashoua? It just doesn't even make sense sometimes.

Can you name a top-team EPL manager/head coach who's given more given starting spots to more "youngesters" than Pochettino? Conte? Pep? Jose? Wenger? Klopp?
On top of my head I can list Rose, Davies, Sanchez, Dier, Winks, Mason, Kane, Dele, Eriksen, Son. I am not saying he developed them but at least he stuck with them and helped them develop and intergrate them into the team. And, apart from Rose (who was 23 when Poch "got" them) all were 22 or younger when the "met" Poch.

Winks has already proven himself in the EPL, the CL and England while Onomah is still struggling to establish himself as a starter for Villa - and not long ago Villa fans did not want him to start (yes, I know fans are fickled). "Talent" can mean a lots of course, and I don't doubt that Onomah has better ball skills than Winks but that does not mean he's a better player.

I am not saying I am a fan of Sissoko, and I am fully aware of his poor finishing skills, but there is not guarantee that Edwards or Shashoua would glide through very compact defensive walls in the EPL. Spurs are not the only team struggling to break down "walls" in the EPL. It is not as easy as you think to break down "defensive" walls anywhere - otherwise Barcelona would have won every single games they played and cruised to the CL title year after year. Besides, even with 20 minutes left and Spurs being down, players still have to know how to defend, and defend well. Gliding past opponents by leaving big gaps in defense also serves little or no purpose...

Spurs have 2 either Trippier (a regular England internation), Aurier, Davies and Rose making the bench (when fit). I would love for KPW to break into the first team, and in fact was happy to have him as 2nd choice RB this season before Aurier was bought, but being a promising academy product should not necessary translate into given a chance of better players.

Despite of Pochettino have his short-comings, like any other manager, I still have a plenty of faith in him and what he does and that all what he does in for the best interest for Spurs. And that him not fielding "enough" academy players has nothing to do with him "stubbornly" not wanting to give academy players a chance.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Can you name a top-team EPL manager/head coach who's given more given starting spots to more "youngesters" than Pochettino? Conte? Pep? Jose? Wenger? Klopp?
On top of my head I can list Rose, Davies, Sanchez, Dier, Winks, Mason, Kane, Dele, Eriksen, Son I am not saying he developed them but at least he stuck with them and helped them develop and intergrate them into the team. And, apart from Rose (who was 23 when Poch "got" them) all were 22 or younger when the "met" Poch.

Winks has already proven himself in the EPL, the CL and England while Onomah is still struggling to establish himself as a starter for Villa - and not long ago Villa fans did not want him to start (yes, I know fans are fickled). "Talent" can mean a lots of course, and I don't doubt that Onomah has better ball skills than Winks but that does not mean he's a better player.

I am not saying I am a fan of Sissoko, and I am fully aware of his poor finishing skills, but there is not guarantee that Edwards or Shashoua would glide through very compact defensive walls in the EPL. Spurs are not the only team struggling to break down "walls" in the EPL. It is not as easy as you think to break down "defensive" walls anywhere - otherwise Barcelona would have won every single games they played and cruised to the CL title year after year. Besides, even with 20 minutes left and Spurs being down, players still have to know how to defend, and defend well. Gliding past opponents by leaving big gaps in defense also serves little or no purpose...

Spurs have 2 either Trippier (a regular England internation), Aurier, Davies and Rose making the bench (when fit). I would love for KPW to break into the first team, and in fact was happy to have him as 2nd choice RB this season before Aurier was bought, but being a promising academy product should not necessary translate into given a chance of better players.

Despite of Pochettino have his short-comings, like any other manager, I still have a plenty of faith in him and what he does and that all what he does in for the best interest for Spurs. And that him not fielding "enough" academy players has nothing to do with him "stubbornly" not wanting to give academy players a chance.

young players and youth players should be treated as separate entities. poch's record with the former speaks for itself, he has shown that he can take on young players with first team experience elsewhere and help push them on and develop them further, it's the getting over the initial hump of giving a player with zero experience the game-time required that he's shown to be no better at than other managers at rival clubs.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

Tonight, yes, against the best attack in the league but if you're implying it was the wrong decision to give him a chance or that Arsenal are struggling due to him, it shows the mentality of fans with youth players. If Arsenal lose or are poor it isn't down to him.

Koscielny made a mistake, so what? An inexperience player out of position will make a mistake, but hey so did an experienced one in their favourite position. The difference is that mistake will be used to say the young player isn't ready or should or be justification for him not to play the next game. The experienced player won't face that same pressure. I commend Wenger for having balls and giving him a try, it's something Poch is hailed and regarded for and he barely does it himself.

It is the 3rd player I believe since Poch has arrived that Wenger has taken from academy to PL starts, while Poch has done it once, but the risk he faces is them making a mistake like any other player and then getting questioned for it. It's also precisely why, managers shit themselves with giving youth players a chance as fans will turn on them and then the manager as they are an easy scapegoat. I remember at my cricket club a 14 year old would get promoted to the first team. The team get bowled for 130, and the 14 year old gets 15 and will be the one dropped for the next game. Surely it is the responsibility of the other 10 players who didn't turn up and take responsibility. This isn't a personal attack at you of course but it is just something that happens in youth football.

Aurier has made plenty of mistakes this year but is being persisted with let's give the youngsters some leeway too

Sorry, but the kid got targeted and absolutely abused by Liverpool. He was awful and almost everything Liverpool did went through where he either was or was meant to be. Not saying that doesn't happen to other full backs, including ours, but he was absolutely awful. Anyway, Spurs youth... hey?!

 

[Cornpattbuck]

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy this thread a lot, but it has become a tedious anti-Poch-we-know-better-than-Poch thread.
Some comments on here really strongly claim that Poch does not think for the best of the team and is not fielding the best possible teams for each occasions because he "stobbornly" does not want to give some academy players a chance.
If that really is the case - i.e. that Poch is hindering Spurs getting better results because he does not want to field "better" academy player because a hidden personal agenda - then Spurs should sack him And I believe Levy would have sacked him IF that was the case.
Again, there is a HUGE difference between flying past opponents in the various academy leagues and doing the same in the EPL. Plus, there defenive flaws - even minor ones - are often mercilessly taken advantage of in the EPL (and other top leagues). Some players make the transition to the EPL smoothly while others don't. If one does it it doesn't means others would as well.
I am not saying Poch is faultless but give him a break when it comes to how many academy players he is "refusing" to field...

Was going to write something similar.

Only a year ago this was still a place full of excitement, inspiration and positivity and yet every time I pop in recently it's the same rants - almost daily.

The proof will be in the pudding in a couple of years, but I'm still hopeful we'll have a few more kids in the first team soon.

 

[Streetspur77]

I think especially with KWP there is no problem.

Trippier will go in the summer and KWP will be playing every other game rotating with Aurier, at the age of 21, job done successfully intergrated.

I could be wrong but that's what I see happening

 

[WiganSpur]

I think especially with KWP there is no problem.

Trippier will go in the summer and KWP will be playing every other game rotating with Aurier, at the age of 21, job done successfully intergrated.

I could be wrong but that's what I see happening

Not sure Trippier will be sold. If Poch really liked KWP then would he have brought in Aurier? Not sure another season on the periphery will do his development that much of a favour so it's hard to make the case that he feels he will be ready after another season in that role.

Personally think we should probably sell Trippier. Not that he's a bad player but I just think long term we'd be better off if we integrated KWP. He's very good at certain things but he is unfortunately flawed and i'm pretty sure KWP will have a much higher ceiling than him. Aurier I think will need some more time to adapt.