The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[allpaths]

Anton has surprised me but I dont see him as having anywhere near enough quality on the ball to be a premier league player

Obviously Walkes will never be Vertonghen on the ball, but I also believe he has solid enough technique(his decision makng imo was his biggest problem otb), to go along with his athleticism/build and versatility that he'll find his level as an high end championship club/lower end prem side. Which would be amazing for a kid who I thought would be lucky to make a living in sport, when I first watched him.

 

[IGSpur]

Our u16s won 4-2 Binks got a brace

 

[IGSpur]

https://twitter.com/StevenMcinerney/status/959751350673436673

this thread on twitter is like some of the debates we have on here. would like to think poch would never pull the same stunt but if he did i'm sure some would be trying to justify it.

Of course people would justify it. Look at his timeline it is ridiculous. It's the same as here, he dared to question Pep and someone just trued to undermine his point by accusing him of wanting Pep out for not agreeing with him. I keep saying this, everyone agrees the PL can't bring through players. England dominated the summer and all of a sudden fans want something to be done to get more chances, but they don't really want it to happen they just get whipped up in the moment. We know they're good enough but we don't really want it to happen at our club.

Poch makes an excuse the fans back him
Pep makes an excuse the fans back him
Conte etc. If every manager does it how dies anything change, surely there comes a point where fans must realise it's not the players its the managers bottling it. England have won more trophies in a year than any country ever, and still mind are good enough according to the fans. Apparently the league us too strong, but it's not that strong. Some would argue it's not even the strongest it's just the most competitive but don't worry we'll find another excuse. If fans actually believe there is a problem and actually want things to change then they need to open their eyes. City are 15pts clear and won't give a chance, we can't as were going for CL and no one else can as they're fighting relegation. More excuses.

And also nothing is more cringy than reading some Spurs fans taking moral high ground when the rich clubs splash cash instead of giving academy players a chance. When City were after Mahrez I saw, mainly Sours fans commenting, won't Eben give an academy player a chance. We are literally no different. In fact we are worse. Both of us would rather buy a player than give an academy player a chance, which we both do, difference is they have more money do it pools worse but at least they're buying better players than we are. Lookman scored today in debut, Sancho got an assist, I really wish ours had gone abroad. It's not like we'd miss them.

I think it's always best to wait for an explanation first in situations like this rather then everyone jumping to the conclusion the fits their opinion

If it's just that he couldn't be bothered to put a youth player on the bench then fair enough rip into him but until we know there could be a legit reason

EDIT- just seen he said it's because he didn't have enough players which obviously isn't true, but stupid bit not the cardinal sin some are making it out to be tbh

If Mourinho did it everyone would lay into him. Instead Mourinho has given a Prem start to another academy player. So I think 3 new full PL debuts have been given buy Arsenal and Utd, since Poch has joined, and one from Chelsea and one from Poch.

Also saw Hudson-Odoi Cole on for Chelsea thought he looked really good. Proper quality player. Hope he gets more chances.

 

[Streetspur77]

Of course people would justify it. Look at his timeline it is ridiculous. It's the same as here, he dared to question Pep and someone just trued to undermine his point by accusing him of wanting Pep out for not agreeing with him. I keep saying this, everyone agrees the PL can't bring through players. England dominated the summer and all of a sudden fans want something to be done to get more chances, but they don't really want it to happen they just get whipped up in the moment. We know they're good enough but we don't really want it to happen at our club.

Poch makes an excuse the fans back him
Pep makes an excuse the fans back him
Conte etc. If every manager does it how dies anything change, surely there comes a point where fans must realise it's not the players its the managers bottling it. England have won more trophies in a year than any country ever, and still mind are good enough according to the fans. Apparently the league us too strong, but it's not that strong. Some would argue it's not even the strongest it's just the most competitive but don't worry we'll find another excuse. If fans actually believe there is a problem and actually want things to change then they need to open their eyes. City are 15pts clear and won't give a chance, we can't as were going for CL and no one else can as they're fighting relegation. More excuses.

And also nothing is more cringy than reading some Spurs fans taking moral high ground when the rich clubs splash cash instead of giving academy players a chance. When City were after Mahrez I saw, mainly Sours fans commenting, won't Eben give an academy player a chance. We are literally no different. In fact we are worse. Both of us would rather buy a player than give an academy player a chance, which we both do, difference is they have more money do it pools worse but at least they're buying better players than we are. Lookman scored today in debut, Sancho got an assist, I really wish ours had gone abroad. It's not like we'd miss them.



If Mourinho did it everyone would lay into him. Instead Mourinho has given a Prem start to another academy player. So I think 3 new full PL debuts have been given buy Arsenal and Utd, since Poch has joined, and one from Chelsea and one from Poch.

Also saw Hudson-Odoi Cole on for Chelsea thought he looked really good. Proper quality player. Hope he gets more chances.

I do just have to point out there's been three new full prem debuts since poch has taken over (KWP, winks and mason) but I'm not here to defend poch and tbh seeing what lookman, mount etc are doing when given a chance I'm starting to understand your anger more and more

I'm not going to change my position just yet as I honestly do think there has been extenuating circumstances for players such as Edwards, onomah and KWP but, as I've already said, there needs to be progress soon otherwise I'll join you on the trenches

 

[IGSpur]

(KWP, winks and mason)

You're right. My fault, he did well with Mason but he'd also played around 80odd matches he was almost like a signing, but Poch did give him that chance, which was great for us and him. Again though if he didn't saved us against Forest with a belter does he get that start? Not trying to take away but it feels like they have to do the unbelievable to to prove a point. And as many point out we were a lot weaker so maybe easier for us to give chances than the other top clubs then. I do accept I'm being picky

Amazing how Lookman couldn't buy a game for Everton despite being garbage and now basically safe but gets a chance for 3rd place in Bundesliga. Its great what's going on there but like I saw I can still see so much going to waste.

I'm not going to change my position just yet as I honestly do think there has been extenuating circumstances for players such as Edwards, onomah and KWP but, as I've already said, there needs to be progress soon otherwise I'll join you on the trenches

There will always be extenuating circumstances mate. Sometimes you just need to take the plunge

 

[coys200]

Our starting xi is the combined tallest most Matchdays. Only other teams that come close are united and WBA. But united will have shrunk with Sanchez lol. Arguably our best xi has 8 over 6ft and Aurier Rose Eriksen who aren’t exactly tiny.Whats disappointing is we don’t make this count more from set pieces. Definitely an area we should score more from.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I guess this is a new problem for Poch and one he hasn't previously had to deal with. At previous clubs, he has either had a B team or a not-so-strong first team to bring youth on. I think we should cut him some slack in that he is learning how to deal with this problem and he's shown himself not averse to changing his approach

I think we do make allowances for the fact that Pochettino has been competing for titles for two years, but I still don't think he's been brave enough, or even clever enough where integration is concerned.

The games where we've been 3/4 nil up with 20-30 minutes left and he'll bring on Sissoko or Davies instead of giving that time to Onomah or Winks. Europa (or even a CL game which had nothing on it) and domestic cup games he clearly didn't give a shit about where he'd still play Eriksen, Vertonghen, Kane, Alli, Dier etc into the ground rather than use the opportunity to rest them and give a kid some valuable time.

But these lads will still be involved in 11 v 11 matches in training where they will gain the experience of going up against the first team players.
The likes of Dier, Wanyama,Jan etc will be just as competitive in training as match days so it provides the perfect environment to assess the youngsters.
If they're dancing around Vic and Jan before smashing the ball past Lloris regularly then I'm sure they would be getting plenty of game time.
We all want players like Onomah and Edwards to succeed and replace Sissoko but Poch will have matched them up during training matches and seen Sissoko boss them. And until he sees the opposite they aren't playing.

I suspect the loans are Poch's way of saying they are not developing as they should and need to experience life further down the leagues to understand it isn't any easier and they need to work harder if they want to make it as just moving them back into youth football won't help them.
It's no surprise that KWP hasn't gone anywhere because he is now the most promising youngster we have. And he'll learn a lot more trying to stop Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Son etc every day in training matches/attack v defence exercises than he will in the Championship.

So you reckon if Kane's having a bad week and Harrison was outscoring him in training he'd get his place on Saturday ? Or Edwards was running round Wanyama and Davies he'd drop Son or Alli and give him a game ?

Playing on a training pitch, against your own players is nothing like a senior game for a top club, where not only do you have to perform, you have to do it with 50k people bearing down on you. It's not even like a proper "match" situation, where everything still matters.

Why is it always the "kids" fault when he's packed off on loan? Is it never because a coach isn't brave or innovative enough to integrate the very best kids better ? How do clubs all over Europe manage it, and then we go and covet those kids, and usually the coaches too.

 

[Snarfalicious]

Our starting xi is the combined tallest most Matchdays. Only other teams that come close are united and WBA. But united will have shrunk with Sanchez lol. Arguably our best xi has 8 over 6ft and Aurier Rose Eriksen who aren’t exactly tiny.Whats disappointing is we don’t make this count more from set pieces. Definitely an area we should score more from.

Feel like the set piece stuff is more corner delivery. For whatever reason, our great "deliverers" of the ball in open play really struggle from the corner. I'd even say free kicks outside of corners are far better in terms of being put into dangerous areas.

 

[Anuth]

For me, I'm ok with Poch doesn't give youth a chance. at least it's his job and he has a responsibility to deliver a good result.

But what I can't understand what makes him think that no competitive football for the whole year is the best way to develop 17 years old football player(TOB).

 

[allpaths]

For me, I'm ok with Poch doesn't give youth a chance. at least it's his job and he has a responsibility to deliver a good result.

But what I can't understand what makes him think that no competitive football for the whole year is the best way to develop 17 years old football player(TOB).

great post mate, and this is the setiment we all have to remeber in this thread at times. For the most part we all want whats best for the club.

Us posters that voice our concerns of youth integration, aren't doing it because we have a personal hard on for these lads, but because we want for the club to maximize on all of the clubs resources. To try to even out the massive financial disadvantage the club has to overcome.

 

[rambu]

edwards still cant get on the norwich bench, despite positive comments from the coach this week, strange loan move it seems atm

Actually think it's a good thing. He's not ready by Poch's standard, I don't know physically or mentally or both. So the loan is more or less a second opinion, more so for Edwards, to find out if it's the coach, or him.

If he plays well in Norwich I'm happy, if not I'm still happy, for the fact that there's no excuse if you can't even get on the bench for Norwich, let alone Tottenham.

Worst case is that Edwards is actually doing everything he can and trains as hard as anyone else, yet he just can't get anytime, then that would be the injustice of the century...which never happens if he is a player.

So I'm happy either way.

 

[Cravenspurs]

so proud of how walkes has turned himself into a very good professional. Think longterm he's premier league quality.

I thought he looked strong in his preseason games a couple seasons ago.

 

[Matecheck]

Playing on a training pitch, against your own players is nothing like a senior game for a top club, where not only do you have to perform, you have to do it with 50k people bearing down on you. It's not even like a proper "match" situation, where everything still matters.

Let's face it, our team couldn't get their competitive juices flowing as much as usual against Newport in the FA cup. And we have people in here agreeing with some cock-eyed notion that they're as competitive in training as they are in the league (a notion that nobody who has ever played competitive sports at any level could agree with).

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Let's face it, our team couldn't get their competitive juices flowing as much as usual against Newport in the FA cup. And we have people in here agreeing with some cock-eyed notion that they're as competitive in training as they are in the league (a notion that nobody who has ever played competitive sports at any level could agree with).

I have seen them train. I have also seen virtually every match for the past 5 years. The training session was far more intense and competitive.

But, even if you did not want to take my word for it, there are two things that come to mind with Poch - if you ask his players, they will tell you his training sessions are the most intense they have ever been put through. And, Poch has famously said, "You don't sign to play, you sign to train."

For better or worse, Poch places a high level of importance on training. When the youths are involved in the training, they are mixing it up with the senior players - i.e. There is no difference in how they are treated. The coaches can measure the youth players performance relative to the senior players directly.

 

[Blake Griffin]

I have seen them train. I have also seen virtually every match for the past 5 years. The training session was far more intense and competitive.

But, even if you did not want to take my word for it, there are two things that come to mind with Poch - if you ask his players, they will tell you his training sessions are the most intense they have ever been put through. And, Poch has famously said, "You don't sign to play, you sign to train."

For better or worse, Poch places a high level of importance on training. When the youths are involved in the training, they are mixing it up with the senior players - i.e. There is no difference in how they are treated. The coaches can measure the youth players performance relative to the senior players directly.

so essentially you're saying that actual games are of no benefit to a player's development? all things being equal, a player with say five years of first team experience will be no further along than a player who has just trained for those five years?

also this "you sign to train, not to play" is a nice little line and all but it's not really true is it. we're not going to spend a load of money on a player and not play them regardless of what they may or may not be doing in training, poch will still give them a chance to prove it in games and only if they flunk it will they be moved on.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

so essentially you're saying that actual games are of no benefit to a player's development? all things being equal, a player with say five years of first team experience will be no further along than a player who has just trained for those five years?

also this "you sign to train, not to play" is a nice little line and all but it's not really true is it. we're not going to spend a load of money on a player and not play them regardless of what they may or may not be doing in training, poch will still give them a chance to prove it in games and only if they flunk it will they be moved on.

It's not as odd as it sounds...compare the time spent training to the time playing matches and it's obvious that most of the improvement takes place on the training grounds.

That is not to say that matches have no benefit - but the real benefit comes from fighting for a chance to be in the starting XI.

I also believe Poch when he says you have to show your qualities on the training ground before the manager will select you for a match.

 

[danielneeds]

Why is it always the "kids" fault when he's packed off on loan? Is it never because a coach isn't brave or innovative enough to integrate the very best kids better ? How do clubs all over Europe manage it, and then we go and covet those kids, and usually the coaches too.

Can you name me an equivalent club in Europe, that hasn’t had to to sell any important players in the past four or five years, and is expected to be competitive every single game, that gives more youth players chances? I don’t see many in the top leagues.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

Is he any worse than Jake Livermore and James McClean?

Anton best attribute is his athletiscm and versatality- the two you quote are considerably better international football players- I give Anton a lot of credit hs has done remarkably well to get where he is. But despite having some decent attributes I think he is at his level but I am happy to be proved wrong

 

[kmk]

Anton best attribute is his athletiscm and versatality- the two you quote are considerably better international football players- I give Anton a lot of credit hs has done remarkably well to get where he is. But despite having some decent attributes I think he is at his level but I am happy to be proved wrong

Livermore and McClean are 8 years older than Walkes who is 20.

I am not convinced that they were better than him at the age of 20.

It’s the same argument I made in 2014 on another forum when comparing Harry Kane to Teddy Sheringham after Kane.

Some ridiculed my suggestion that Kane reminded me of Teddy. They said he will never be as good as they were comparing a 21 year old Kane to Teddy in his prime and not the Teddy who was playing for Aldershot and a Swedish team as a youngster (on loan from Millwall).

 

[Blake Griffin]

nice bit of pressing by amos at 0:30 to force a mistake which leads to stevenage's 2nd goal and then a little nutmeg and run to set up a chance at 1:05.