The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
7,058
Thread starter #5,241
More benefits of academy players keeping the connection to the community

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/sports/soccer/liverpool-alexander-arnold.html

Intersting blog on loans https://bluetintedreborn.wordpress.com/2018/01/28/empty-vessels-the-loan-system-in-english-football/

Makes good points on some of the problems with loans and how they don't fit for everyone. I actually remember a few of us saying we don't think Onomah would do well on loan for various reasons, and he is seemingly struggling. However when the options is zero game time, or hoofball, going on loan is still probably the better option if just to earn the club some money. I cringe when I see, so and so can't get into that team how can you expect them to play for us. I don't believe intelligent football fans can really use that as an argument but it is used so often. There are so many outside factors affecting things, how about putting talented footballers among other talented footballers and judging them then
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
12,073
Really disappointing. Even if people try to take into account that the Premier League is 'strong' whatever that means, surely it isn't more stronger than the other leagues than our academies' our compared to other academies. In fact judging by recent winners of CL and EL competitions you'd be inclined to think other leagues are stronger than ours, ours is just richer meaning we can hand other clubs our money for average players.

It's genuinely poor and explains why all of a sudden our u21s drop off compared to other nations whereas before that we are all dominant. I don't think people quite understand how important youth football and tournaments mean to other nations. Players who perform well in youth competitions in other countries might get themselves a promotion to the first team as a result. That would never happen here as people believe in the rite of passage, of doing this, then doing that, then going there, then coming back and if, if various circumstances fall in your favour, you might get yourself a chance. Imagine an u17 Euro winner and u20 World Cup CM coming through another league, at a club like Sevilla. They would cherish them and try and get them into their first team. Here, we play them out of position and then send them on loan to a club playing hoofball and wonder what has gone wrong? English fans and managers are so stuck in their ways and 'the rite of passage' is so ingrained that they are complicit in the lack of development of English footballers, without even realising. Other nations look at us like we are crazy, for wasting our players but we don't dare question it, and when we do it is only superficially for want of a better word. It's wanting change without actually having to experience going through the change and the risks associated with it.

We appeared so far behind in developing talent, we have now caught up and overtaken other nations, but the last hurdle seems to be the greatest. Imagine with the talent in England if we just matched La Liga where we would be.
and that figure(i assume) includes imported u23s which no doubt make up a large bulk of that %.
 

Cornpattbuck

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
3,690
This was tweeted a coupe of days ago by the guy from the FT (John Burn-Murdoch) who's article about Dortmund development methods etc I posted in the general youth thread (I've also retweeted a couple of his articles if you check my twitter thingy):

View attachment 35738
There's definitely an argument to be made that the amount of money currently in the PL has blinded teams into thinking they have to stock up on expensive signings who then have to play because of high wages.

Personally, I think it could be a good thing for English football in the long run if this current trend of youth products going abroad continues.

Although I'd rather see them make their respective first teams at home, it'll definitely broaden a few horizons.
 

Univarn

Lost. Probably Not Worth Finding.
Joined
Jul 20, 2017
Messages
1,656
There's definitely an argument to be made that the amount of money currently in the PL has blinded teams into thinking they have to stock up on expensive signings who then have to play because of high wages.

Personally, I think it could be a good thing for English football in the long run if this current trend of youth products going abroad continues.

Although I'd rather see them make their respective first teams at home, it'll definitely broaden a few horizons.
A fundamental part of the business model for a lot of these clubs is to identify talent, build them up, then sell them to a PL/CL team if you can for an extraordinary profit. You would think the price inflation would eventually lead to more PL teams bringing through youth players but it may be a case of the dog chasing its own tail and not sure what to do.
 
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
987
Although I'll admit, he's looked average whenever he's played for us - I hope we give Onomah another chance in pre-seaon, in his natural position. Would hate to see him leave. What a disaster of a loan move.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,837
There's definitely an argument to be made that the amount of money currently in the PL has blinded teams into thinking they have to stock up on expensive signings who then have to play because of high wages.
I think clubs like ManC, Chelsea and ManU can make an argument for why they don't integrate better, anything less the winning the league could be a sacking offence for their manager. ManC and Chelsea also offer kids the best (arguably) coaching and certainly the best remuneration packages. they also have relationships with loan clubs which get their players valuable (vital even) experience both abroad and in the UK.

I don't agree with all those arguments, because there is evidence from all countries, including the PL, of youth being of great value, when blended in the right circumstances, to success (Ferguson built one of his best teams with a core of youth players and dominated PL football whilst continually making use of his academy, even for functionary roles).

But the excuses get less viable as we then go down the English football food chain. In fact, for clubs that have no chance whatsoever of competing for the league, trophies, and are in the championship downward, you would think they would realise the massive benefit of not having to pay transfer fees and inflated wages and reaping the massive rewards on offer for any bright young ENGLISH (ie homegrown) footballer they can produce, both in terms of footballing benefit and financial benefit.

We constantly hear lower league clubs talking about the massive benefit of getting an away draw in the FA Cup as "keeping the club afloat for another year" or paying for new pitches or stadium repairs, and that's £2-400k. Imagine how much they could get for developing and selling a good English player ?


Personally, I think it could be a good thing for English football in the long run if this current trend of youth products going abroad continues.

Although I'd rather see them make their respective first teams at home, it'll definitely broaden a few horizons.

I've been saying this for a few years in here. I think not only should players be looking more to abroad, but instead of looking to make money, short term, off the loan system, if PL clubs actually incentivised French/Dutch/German/Italian/Portuguese clubs by subsidising or at least letting them have kids for free, then there is not only the benefit to the players, but medium/long term benefit to the clubs as they get back players with much needed experience and the coaching in Europe is generally of a much higher standard than at lower league English clubs.
 

Streetspur77

Happy Clapper
Joined
Jul 20, 2017
Messages
2,749
Make of this what you will but it doesn't look fake. Assuming it's real I fucking hate ****s that do shit like this to our own players.

IMG_0444.JPG
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
12,073
is this supposed to be another mark against him or something? i'm surprised he's never replied sooner to these idiots @'ing him abuse all the time.
 

Streetspur77

Happy Clapper
Joined
Jul 20, 2017
Messages
2,749
is this supposed to be another mark against him or something? i'm surprised he's never replied sooner to these idiots @'ing him abuse all the time.
No the exact opposite.

To me it hints at the possible things he's gone/going through that have hindered him so far and also shows how ****y our fans can be, same kind of people that abuse sissoko directly under his tweets
 

SpursD22

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
1,287
Marcus Edwards will prove all his doubters wrong. He’s a academy player, he’s played for the club since he was a little kid. There’s probably nothing more he wants than be a successful footballer for Spurs. Support him instead of throwing hate comments at him
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
4,996
Thought TOB might make the bench. With a fully fit squad it’s looking near on impossible for a kid to get a look in. When you consider vertonghen dier davies dembele moura aren’t even on bench.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
7,058
Thread starter #5,254
Make of this what you will but it doesn't look fake. Assuming it's real I fucking hate ****s that do shit like this to our own players.

View attachment 35767
Moron. Probably one of the 100s of people that know nothing about him but have decided he has a bad attitude and apparently is working hard enough. Tbf it's not really any different to what he would read if he came onto this forum, the only issue is that someone decided to say it to him directly.

Needs to work harder - check
If you can't get into Norwich how do you expect to play for Spurs - check
Waste of talent - I'm sure some have said that. Although more have said he has done nothing to suggest he is worth any hypw
 

Anuth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
418
This might not go well but you can clearly see we have a double standard here.

Poch starts Foyth who 9 months younger and couldn't qualify for second round in U20 World Cup

KWP 9 months older and World Cup winner. So let's give him 5 minutes at LB.

but hey Poch might see something in training, right? same as he sees something in Onomah and Edwards. That's why he gives him 5 minutes at LB.

Maybe his right foot is not good enough?
 

SpursD22

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
1,287
Why didn’t Poch let KWP go out on loan? He’s wasted 2 seasons from him. I think Poch has handled the situation badly if I’m being honest
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
7,058
Thread starter #5,257
This might not go well but you can clearly see we have a double standard here.

Poch starts Foyth who 9 months younger and couldn't qualify for second round in U20 World Cup

KWP 9 months older and World Cup winner. So let's give him 5 minutes at LB.

but hey Poch might see something in training, right? same as he sees something in Onomah and Edwards. That's why he gives him 5 minutes at LB.

Maybe his right foot is not good enough?
Careful with that talk mate.

We all know KWP (with around 3 career starts) is meant to prove in his weaker position that he is better than 4 experienced FBs playing regularly in their favourite positions. If he doesn't manage that then he clearly isn't good enough and will only have himself to blame.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
7,058
Thread starter #5,258
This might not go well but you can clearly see we have a double standard here.

Poch starts Foyth who 9 months younger and couldn't qualify for second round in U20 World Cup

KWP 9 months older and World Cup winner. So let's give him 5 minutes at LB.

but hey Poch might see something in training, right? same as he sees something in Onomah and Edwards. That's why he gives him 5 minutes at LB.

Maybe his right foot is not good enough?

Saying all that I actually like Foyth, looks very composed though he has shown that he will have to adapt to the English style which is expected for a youngster coming from abroad. However, I just don't quite get the double standards. We have 2 u20 World Cup winners straight from the academy, who get no game time with us in their favourite positions but we give a signing who didn't get far in the same competition patience in his favourite positions. He must just be an animal in training, and consistently performing better than Toby, Jan and Sanchez, there can be no other explanation.
 

allpaths

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Messages
1,936
Tonight is another missed opportunity. I don't want to sound to harsh and nitpicking, but for the life of me I cant understand why we didnt have more youth on the bench and why KWP only got 8 minutes or so at LB. Atm I'd rather see KWP on the rightside of midfield interchanging with the RB then on the leftside.

I don't understand why we needed Trippier on the bench, or why we needed all three of Eriksen, Alli and Kane. It just seems that Poch is making it unecessarily difficult for our academy players to accrue any sort of valueable in game expierence.
 

Anuth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
418
Careful with that talk mate.

We all know KWP (with around 3 career starts) is meant to prove in his weaker position that he is better than 4 experienced FBs playing regularly in their favourite positions. If he doesn't manage that then he clearly isn't good enough and will only have himself to blame.
It was meant to be Poch bashing. but I really feel for KWP.

I believe everyone loves Poch. at least he is our best coach in my lifetime. However, as a fan, we should have right to say when we see something wrong.

I've read somewhere that recently some of the good kids choose us over Chelsea and Arsenal because we provide a better pathway to the first team better than them. It's the only way we can compete with them. I don't want us to lose that advantage.
 
Top