The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by IGSpur, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. yanno

    yanno Well-Known Member

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    Apparently Sancho is homesick for London (City poached him) and feels he won't play any time soon because there are too many wide attacking midfielders ahead of him there.

    So I think it was legitimate, and the claim that we tried to include Sancho in the Walker deal suggests it was all above board.

    Levy has clearly tried to hold the line on Spurs Academy salaries whilst the like of Solanke were allegedly demanding £50k per week, and I understand and respect his efforts, as we all know that a significant number of talented young prospects unfortunately don't make it.

    As for the US tour party, with Sterling now apparently ahead of Harrison, I'm reminded of Poch's notorious comment to McDermott that Harrison was "lazy", whereas Sterling is meant to work like a demon in and after training. I still think there's a good player in Shayon Harrison and I hope he gets a productive loan where he plays regularly and can show his quality.
     
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  2. mpickard2087

    mpickard2087 Fantastic Member

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    It doesn't look fantastic, but I don't think it should be held against him or have fans making negative assumptions on him. I'll probably be corrected by those who see more of the age group football, but all the England teams whenever I see them seem to have a set template: 4-2-3-1 with the attacking spots filled with one more technical player and the other three physical/pacey/athletic players. Eg. U19's was Mount with Sessegnon, Brereton and Buckley-Ricketts, and U20's Dowell (although played off the right) with Lookman, Solanke, and Calvert-Lewin.

    There might be some valid comments that Edwards could improve aspects of his defensive play, but if you watch the age group teams it's not exactly something England do well or seem to have particularly well drilled. So I think it's fucking harsh if that was the reason. Personally I just think they have their template I mentioned and didn't want to include both Mount (who is a very good prospect himself) and Edwards, when they could have pretty easily done so.

    With the game time he got he couldn't have done much more, it's not like he was making sub appearances, stinking the place out, and validating that he should be a sub. He just got unlucky - but doubly so because he has missed the chance to have a couple of weeks preseason with Poch, the best time of the year maybe to be in and around the manager with numbers depleted as the seniors come back in dribs and drabs.
     
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  3. coys200

    coys200 Well-Known Member

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    I think Edwards size puts an instant question mark in coaches heads it just goes against the grain of modern players.Its almost like he has to be twice as good to justify his place.But there's no doubt he can do things others can't .The spin he did in the semi to set up the goal,no other player in the England squad could have done,tbh I can't think of many players in EPL that could have done it bar the likes of hazard or Sanchez.I honestly haven't seen him play 90 mins ,so it's very hard to judge his all round contribution,but I've no doubt he'd be a fantastic sub to have in a 0-0 with 30 mins left to play.
     
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  4. Spurzinho

    Spurzinho Active Member

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    It takes a brave coach to play someone like Edwards knowing that when an attack breaks down he won't necessarily be where they want him to be, as quick as they want him there and doing what they want him doing without switching off. Accommodating a player like that is not impossible, we can all think of a hundred examples, but it does mean restructuring the rest of the team to compensate and that just may not be something that the coaches are willing to do or that the rest of the side is capable of doing and so they view him as luxury sub.
     
  5. DEFchenkOE

    DEFchenkOE Well-Known Member

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    I would love to see him get a few minutes in one of the "2" positions when we play the 3421. He should be close to the goal and have less defensive responsibilities. Playing on the right of a 4231 isn't easy especially if the left back attacks a lot. Clearly tracking back is not going to be his game and is probably something he'll need to improve on. But his dribbling his so good and alongside his low centre of gravity i'm convinced he'd give some epl defenders some problems. Just needs to be given a chance though.
     
  6. Blake Griffin

    Blake Griffin Well-Known Member

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  7. Spurzinho

    Spurzinho Active Member

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    I wish it was easy as that but the "2" still have a huge workload to get through, defensively. The front three are expected to put pressure on whenever the opposition have try to work their way out and that means a lot of running, shuttling, blocking, tackling, scruffing, closing down and organised, coordinated pressing. Its not a light work load physically or mentally. It requires discipline and commitment. Edwards is a cracking dribbler, like you say, he's got good passing, get's his head up...all fantastic. What's he doing when we lose the ball? That will always be a key question a coach asks when deciding whether to play him or not. We know what Alli, Ericksen & Son are doing. That is what Edwards needs to develop.
     
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  8. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    He is an incredibly talented kid, who in his brief sub appearances managed to create goals that won England two games, the fact that it took until very late in games for those winning goals to come is indicative of the risk averse strategy employed. IMO, if Edwards had started those games England could have been winning them with a bit more comfort instead of skanking them late on. But more importantly they would start to employ a more pro-active attacking philosophy that could be carried through to senior level.

    I don't think it was about Chelsea bias (as some have suggested - Chelsea have some damn good players) and I don't think it was quite as simple as not promoting individual talent per se, I think it was almost the opposite, because the coaching is so limited and the tactical application so risk averse it was felt that to balance off the individual talents of Sessegnon and Mount someone like Buckley-Ricketts was required because he's more defensively robust. I think it was tactical cowardice myself, especially with two very busy cm's and full backs (including the excellent Da Silva who's like a left sided KWP) that were not encouraged to rampage forward. That team could easily - tactically - coped with Edwards in the AM3 and could have flourished with him with better coached and tactical application. (We see the same with Alli for example who is very poor at pressing - but are coached and set up to compensate).

    I'm not just saying this because it's Edwards, it's been one of my criticisms of English coaching in general throughout the summer - despite the victories.

    Youth football should not be about winning trophies but developing footballers, instilling an ethos that they can take forward to senior level. It's not that England never won youth tournaments that was the issue previously, it was that they had no discernible tactical or coached philosophy or application, other than a passive aggressive "lets try not to lose or go gung ho if we are" approach. Without the ball they were tragically bad, no cohesion at all, just that kind of sink back and wait for the opposition to give you back the ball shit we've seen from the seniors for decades.

    There's really good players coming through now, from good progressive academies, but the ethos at international level has been virtually the same as ever, pragmatism first, risk aversion to the fore and very little joined up thinking, where what they do without the ball is linked to what they do with it. There's very little patient structured build up, just being comfortable in possession or composed, vital qualities in international football or when protecting leads etc and without the ball it's all very sit mid/deep and react not collectively go hunting and catch teams off guard which means transition is still very predictable.

    We saw very similar tactical approaches throughout the U19/U20/U21. The only time any of them were really impressive were the first half of the final when Simpson finally switched Onomah and Cooke around, had the far more composed Onomah taking the ball off the defence, comfortable in any circumstances, even when pressed, and England finally started building play out from the back. Even in that team Dowling seemed to preferred over the much more lively and unpredictable Ojo because he'd provide more reliable defensive qualities.

    I really hope these wins don't have the FA sucking each off and declaring "our work is done". Because England have always produced talented footballers, the problem has been having no over arching football philosophy to knit those players - and the functionaries they need around them - together. And the same will happen to this young lot if things don't change.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
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  9. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    I love Poch and have always believed in a good collective work ethic being vital, I just think there are occasional double standards applied. I've watched Alli amble around pressing very poorly for a big chunk of his two seasons, but we seem to tolerate his "laziness". Same Kane at times, whose pressing really dropped off at times. And Son's not exactly the most tenacious either. If a player is genuinely lazy then fair enough, but I don't see Harrison looking that way in games, not in the Townsend/Chadli way anyway, he's not as busy as Sterling but part of that is Sterling has to work harder because he's not that great technically. There's been similar suggestions about Edwards, but I'm not really buying that either, sure, he's not Wanyama, but then Wanyama's not going to dribble round two players into the box then get his head up and set up a tap in. That doesn't let Edwards (or any player) off from doing his shift without the ball, but I don't believe Edwards doesn't understand this, I'm sure he does and have seen him working hard at this side of game in the last few months.
     
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  10. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    It's not like Edwards stood there with his hands on hips when he lost the ball or England didn't have it, several times in those England games after he came on he was coming back, tracking his man and winning the ball, helping his full back and offering himself in deeper areas.

    They had two fairly conservative CM's, the FB's rarely ventured into attacking areas, Mount and Sessegnon both dropped back, Edwards could easily have been accommodated with just a modicum of tactical competence and the pay off could have been immense. He won two games from the bench and in previous tournaments he's been England's stand out player.

    Pochettino accomodates Alli the same way, who isn't exactly lazy but is often incredibly lax with his pressing.
     
  11. danielneeds

    danielneeds Kick-Ass

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    Lazy can mean a lot of things though - does a player turn up on time every day? Does he apply himself in training? Does he do extra training? Etc... It's not just about who runs about like a blue arsed fly every match.
     
  12. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    It can also mean tactically and mentally lazy. Both of which we have seen from players in this (very talented) first team squad now. Alli, Son (i.e. Chelsea's goal at Stamford bridge) Kane, even Eriksen gets criticised for not being tenacious enough. As I said, I don't like seeing any player be consciously tactically or mentally lazy, I am one of the least tolerant of show ponies who flatter or play for themselves - one of the few on here to criticise Ginola as one - but you will never get 100% of players being 100% efficient and it's about balancing it off. I also think pitch evidence suggests Edwards does have some understanding of this. Just look at the minutes he spent on the pitch at the Euros this summer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  13. Romulus

    Romulus Well-Known Member

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    absolutely on the money.
     
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  14. Spurzinho

    Spurzinho Active Member

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    So...we're now 99% certain what the new first year intake is. I thought I'd give an update on what the coming season's U16s group looked like. We can keep track of who leaves and who will potentially make up next season's group of first years.

    Goalkeepers

    Kacper Kurylowicz (Milton Keynes based keeper, very agile. Represented England & Poland at youth level. Highly rated.)
    Bartlomiej Cichowlas (Another English/Polish lad)
    Adam Green

    Defenders

    Kane Patterson (Right Back, younger brother of Phoenix)
    Dennis Cirkin (talented Left back)
    Alexander Monroe (Recent recruit, can play anywhere down the right hand side)
    Malachi Walcott (England youth defender. CB & LB)
    Luis Binks (Represented Scotland & England at youth level. Elegant CB.)
    Dequan Wilson-Braithwaite (Left back, may have left)

    Midfielders

    Josh Setchell (Not sure if he's still with us, pretty sure he is a Right sided winger)
    Harvey White (Maidstone lad, tidy midfielder)
    Rafferty Pedder (Another Maidstone boy, skillful playmaker)
    Blake D'arcy (Enfield lad, skillful midfielder)
    Noni Mandeki (Signed from Crystal Palace as an U14, box to box or attacking midfield)
    J'Neil Bennett (Recent recruit from QPR, plays as a number 10)

    Forwards

    Tarelle Whittaker (Striker, goal scorer)
    Enoch Asante (Striker), goal scorer
    Troy Parrott (Signed as an U15 from Belvedere in Ireland, Irish international, hot prospect, links play)
    Henry Fuller (Don't know if he's still with us, Striker)
    Chay Cooper (Signed as U15 from Southend United, can play Attacking midfield or up front)
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
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  15. Anuth

    Anuth Well-Known Member

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    There is one striker(maybe U15). I can't remember his name. I saw him from the tournament a few months ago(the one that Ben Knight play for us). He was no. 9. maybe @IGSpur knows who am I talking about. I think he has a good potential
     
  16. Spurzinho

    Spurzinho Active Member

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    Khalon Haysman? Although he's an U14.
     
  17. Spurzinho

    Spurzinho Active Member

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    Also I don't know if he was just on trial, or whether he had been with us but then got let go but Toualeu Kanga & Blair Livingstone are actually the same person. Full name is Toualeu Kanga Blair Livingstone. He was listed at various tournaments as two people.
     
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  18. Spurzinho

    Spurzinho Active Member

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    I remember a similar problem a couple of years back with a couple of Andre's. Andre Rivers and Andre Hardware. Turned out they were the same person. Andre Rivers-Hardware. Ended up in the US on a scholarship.
     
  19. Anuth

    Anuth Well-Known Member

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    My bad. It was Zak Brown who we also borrowed from Ipswich.
     
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  20. Spurrific

    Spurrific Can't stop saying fella

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    Edwards isn't in the squad travelling to the US.
     

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