After Kane, I don't really think you can tell who the stars are really going to be for a few more years. Makes it quite exciting though.
The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018
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After Kane, I don't really think you can tell who the stars are really going to be for a few more years. Makes it quite exciting though.
EQP
EQP
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Not as strong defensively but he realizes that he needs to work on this facet of his game. IMO if he was to break into the first team it would have to be as a LWB in a back three. Looks like his set-pieces and crossing has improved tremendously.
allpaths
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didnt catch the match, so I don't know the context of his performance, but there is a lot to like from Joshy.
Also Villa fans are idiots mocking josh for his poor attempt when it took incredible skill of his own volition to make the chance in the first place.
Skipp is more a Dier rotation. I think he will get bench and cup games next season. Possibly but like foyth has or a bit less. Personally prefer Bennett’s further forward. But he has all the ingredients for the perfect modern day wingback imo. Size strength pace with a bit of trickery.
BehindEnemyLines
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It reminds me a lot of Leicester fans treatment of Harry Kane. Complete nobs.
ComfortablyNumb
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Nothing much wrong with those highlights. Villa must have some bloody excellent players if Josh wasn't one of their best on that showing.
Is that a different lad from Mukendi ? , as he played 80 mins for u18 last week
Yes Madueke is U17 that was mentioned in regard to a united squad and PSv I think.
Luka Van der Bale
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Madueke is U16. Would be signing a 2-year academy contract to play for the U18s, but seems to be looking around at other clubs as you say. Real shame.
IGSpur
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If Souness said play me or I leave and then decided to leave. Doesn't it show how great it was that he believed in himself, and show maybe we should do things differently with some players rather than treating them the same. Do you think in the future we laughed because 'we showed him'. Football is about succeeding and you need the best players to succeed and sometimes best players come with that mentality where they know how good they are, some call it an 'elite mentality' nowadays. Do you get rid of them to make a point or maybe try different ways to incoproate them and trust their belief in themselves especially if they have clearly shwon themselves to be talented. Van Der Vaart essentially did somethign similar with us, he wanted guaranteed first team football and we let him go, but he regretted that in the future. It's never an easy decision but I believe in the case of academy players the best thing is to get them in, find out if they are good enough, and if they still have an attitude then sell them on or decide to work with them. You end up with even a star or extra money in the back pocket. Rather than just throwing away any 'arrogant' kid with talent.
Fergie was an excellent developer of academy talent, something I wish Poch could learn of. He brough through so many academy plyers, they didn't all have the same level of ability, they didn't all have the same mentality, but he knew that and adapted accordingly, and had different levels of player in his squad. Some ended up World Class some didn't rather than set an expectation from academy players that none of the other members of our first team even match. We then lose a load of talented players, because we ask them to be liek Harry Kane, when Harry Kane is the hardest working member of our squad, and if it weren't for the EL a competition we a re no longer in, even Harry Kane with his elite mentality wouldn't have made it. So maybe we should consider, adapting the methods and accept that academy players aren't the finished article and work with them and not against them. All dynasties have had a core of academy products and if that is what we want in the future maybe look at what we are doing wrongly, rather than just looking at the academy for not producing, and blaming the 'level we are at' for not bringing them through. Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, Nevilles, O'Shea, Fletcher, Brown, Evans, Welbeck and Cleverly all completely different standards of players in terms of attitude and ability all contributed differently towards Man United's success and the last 2 even came through when Man United were expected to be challenging for the PL and in the CL and helped them win with significant game time, and no one would have them in the team now. So maybe there is something in using them. Ironically the player who has a similar mentality to Kane according to reports was Ronaldo, who had the obsession to be the best. But Fergie didn't expect all of the above the have Ronaldo's work ethic before being given a chance.
And even then Fergie admits to making an error. There were two other extremely talented players he never managed to bring through Morrison and Pogba. You could maybe look at Edwards as a similar case. Pogba like Souness, believes he was good enough to be a CM for United, Fergie didn't, and Pogba left and became World Class. Fergie handled that wrong, however Morrison was literally a criminal with talent and sometimes certain players behaviour can't be controlled. Edwards isn't a criminal he is such supremely confident and maybe too arrogant. He isn't helping himself by not turning up, whcih is basic, but he is probably more of a Pogba situation than he is Morrison interms of attitude. Maybe we need to consider doing things differently, and to be honest when there appears to be no route to the first team, when the only player that has come through Winks, in this time, who is more work ethic and again only got his chances due to injury, maybe that is why some players become frustrated and act out. Personally if I was Edwards (and Onomah) I would leave, go abroad and attempt to salvage a career. here is no guarnatee that either will be World Class, but their prospects don't look good, when the manager is telling you, you have to be perofroming better than internationals to get a whiff of a chance. It is a good think we weren't in the CL when Kane was coming through as he probably would not be here. I think if he came through now Kane would be in a KWP situation. A really talented player, excellently trainer ina position where only one player can play but there are 2 players ahead of you, and none are performing outstandingly. Though SOldado and Adebayor were a lot worse than Aurier and Trippier. If KWP is struggling, Kane may also not have got a look in, so what chance do the others have but for a massive injury crisis.
Point is, I want to build a dynastly like United did, I think we can and are in a great position too. Poch has Fergie's ruthlessness with first teamers, however Fergie saw the benefits of the academy and really tapped into that. Poch needs to be able to do that, but it seems he will not change. Do you believe that United's academy were a core reason they were such a success? If so do you think Poch would have been able to bring through all of those players while United were still challening for the league? If not why not? Rather than just saying, none of them are good enough or working hard enough, when the O'Shea's, Fletchers , Browns, Butts, Welbecks and Cleverly's. Maybe that is something holding him back from being truly great. Rather than just saying none of them are good enough.
I'm aware I've probably wound some people up, but reading all the Edwards stuff, and seeing people saying he needs to be more like Kane, I felt I needed to comment
Bus-Conductor
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Watched the Villa game this afternoon. Have to say some aspects of Onomah's performance really troubled me. He's clearly got ability that few players of his age and pitch position have, but what he's doing without the ball has to improve. I accept that part of the problem continues to be the complete lack of good coaching and good tactical application by his coach, the roles he is given, and again yesterday he was played in a very ambiguous remit, not quite a CM, not quite an AM, and he wasn't the only player to be confused by Bruce's tactical approach. There's no structure to Villa's play, no width, very little that joins defence-midfield-attack.
While Onomah did do well enough with the ball, what he does without it has to improve. He too often contributes, then just stops. Or watches play going on and fails to read and react, bust a gut to make himself available and he has got to start showing more urgency and vim to everything he does. There are times in the youth game where he looked like a swan, but at this level and upwards, he's got to do more, be more available.
I think his game will be helped if he ever gets a run of games in a role that suits his skill set, in a properly coached and applied system, spending more time looking forwards, instead of ahead of it looking backwards, (I think his ideal position is in a CM3 - 433 system) in a team that plays possession football and wants to construct play, not react to it and lump it into channels all the time. Onomah is no different to many players, who will never show their best unless they are played in an environment and tactical application that fits their skillset - Pogba this season under Mourinho is the perfect example - played in a CM2 has looked awful, like against us, played in a CM3 against ManC outstanding.
But that said, Onomah has still got to up aspects of his game considerably. I think a loan wasn't a bad idea at all, but It really worries me that he's effectively wasted a year being badly coached by Bruce, when better options may have been available, including abroad, such as Germany.
I'm starting to fear that at best he's going to end up a Capoue, or worse, a Huddlestone. Technically talented, but lacking in the mentality to really make it count.
While Onomah did do well enough with the ball, what he does without it has to improve. He too often contributes, then just stops. Or watches play going on and fails to read and react, bust a gut to make himself available and he has got to start showing more urgency and vim to everything he does. There are times in the youth game where he looked like a swan, but at this level and upwards, he's got to do more, be more available.
I think his game will be helped if he ever gets a run of games in a role that suits his skill set, in a properly coached and applied system, spending more time looking forwards, instead of ahead of it looking backwards, (I think his ideal position is in a CM3 - 433 system) in a team that plays possession football and wants to construct play, not react to it and lump it into channels all the time. Onomah is no different to many players, who will never show their best unless they are played in an environment and tactical application that fits their skillset - Pogba this season under Mourinho is the perfect example - played in a CM2 has looked awful, like against us, played in a CM3 against ManC outstanding.
But that said, Onomah has still got to up aspects of his game considerably. I think a loan wasn't a bad idea at all, but It really worries me that he's effectively wasted a year being badly coached by Bruce, when better options may have been available, including abroad, such as Germany.
I'm starting to fear that at best he's going to end up a Capoue, or worse, a Huddlestone. Technically talented, but lacking in the mentality to really make it count.
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EQP
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Seems Llorente is also injured. Clear sign Toby is gone!
Streetspur77
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I don't think Llorente is injured
ljinko888
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@IGSpur
That's a tremendous post.
One additional benefit of having a core of academy players is they save you £millions.
Nicky Butt: 387 games for Man Utd. Pretty mediocre spells at Birmingham, Newcastle and China to end his career.
Phil Neville: 386 games for Man Utd. Left to play for an upper mid-table Everton.
Wes Brown: 362 games for Man Utd and John O'Shea (393 games) went to Sunderland.
Darren Fletcher: 340 games for Man Utd. Most likely will be relegated. after switching WBA for Stoke.
Jonny Evans: 198 games for Man Utd. Is going to be relegated at WBA.
Tom Cleverley: 79 games for Man Utd and has been at three different mid-table clubs in the four years since.
None of these players were anything special. That showed in the standard of clubs they moved to after. But for a number of years they filled a purpose in the squad and surrounded by better, top class players like Van Nistelrooy, Giggs, Beckham, Keane, Scholes, Ronaldo, Rooney etc, their deficiencies weren't so glaring.
They were noticeable insofar that Nicky Butt wasn't going to ping balls around for fun like Scholes and Phil Neville was just a shit Gary Neville. But you can get by with these players while the mainstays of a football team are top class.
It's no surprise Evans and Cleverley were shipped out by Van Gaal when he had to rebuild a declining team. Ferguson won titles with those two, but that was with the likes of Vidic, Evra, Ferdinand, Rooney and Van Persie being at their peak. When they left, or went over the hill, those weaker squad players became worse players overnight.
So they leave after years of service and fetch you a profit. Ferguson spent a lot of money on first team stars. He broke the transfer record seven times. But when it came to squad players, he knew homegrown players can fill the gaps, and probably better than paying for a guy to warm the bench for a year or two who doesn't get the club, who doesn't acclimatize with the surroundings and who might not be better than the player he's blocking the path of.
Suppose John O'Shea came through at Bolton. Would he have looked good enough at that standard of team (lower half) for Ferguson to want to sign him? Probably not. But he came through at Utd, and was good enough to do a job at that standard (top) to make almost 400 games.
That sounds contradictory but it's actually quite simple. You can put Onomah in central midfield for Spurs and I believe he'll do better than at Villa. Better players, better football style. To use a past example, Ryan Mason wasn't really pulling up trees at his many loan moves, but he was given a chance by this manager, and actually for a while in 2014-15, he looked a class act.
That's a tremendous post.
One additional benefit of having a core of academy players is they save you £millions.
Nicky Butt: 387 games for Man Utd. Pretty mediocre spells at Birmingham, Newcastle and China to end his career.
Phil Neville: 386 games for Man Utd. Left to play for an upper mid-table Everton.
Wes Brown: 362 games for Man Utd and John O'Shea (393 games) went to Sunderland.
Darren Fletcher: 340 games for Man Utd. Most likely will be relegated. after switching WBA for Stoke.
Jonny Evans: 198 games for Man Utd. Is going to be relegated at WBA.
Tom Cleverley: 79 games for Man Utd and has been at three different mid-table clubs in the four years since.
None of these players were anything special. That showed in the standard of clubs they moved to after. But for a number of years they filled a purpose in the squad and surrounded by better, top class players like Van Nistelrooy, Giggs, Beckham, Keane, Scholes, Ronaldo, Rooney etc, their deficiencies weren't so glaring.
They were noticeable insofar that Nicky Butt wasn't going to ping balls around for fun like Scholes and Phil Neville was just a shit Gary Neville. But you can get by with these players while the mainstays of a football team are top class.
It's no surprise Evans and Cleverley were shipped out by Van Gaal when he had to rebuild a declining team. Ferguson won titles with those two, but that was with the likes of Vidic, Evra, Ferdinand, Rooney and Van Persie being at their peak. When they left, or went over the hill, those weaker squad players became worse players overnight.
So they leave after years of service and fetch you a profit. Ferguson spent a lot of money on first team stars. He broke the transfer record seven times. But when it came to squad players, he knew homegrown players can fill the gaps, and probably better than paying for a guy to warm the bench for a year or two who doesn't get the club, who doesn't acclimatize with the surroundings and who might not be better than the player he's blocking the path of.
Suppose John O'Shea came through at Bolton. Would he have looked good enough at that standard of team (lower half) for Ferguson to want to sign him? Probably not. But he came through at Utd, and was good enough to do a job at that standard (top) to make almost 400 games.
That sounds contradictory but it's actually quite simple. You can put Onomah in central midfield for Spurs and I believe he'll do better than at Villa. Better players, better football style. To use a past example, Ryan Mason wasn't really pulling up trees at his many loan moves, but he was given a chance by this manager, and actually for a while in 2014-15, he looked a class act.
