The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[Locotoro]

I'm inclined to disagree. I would like to that sort of thing bought to an end. The big clubs have had their cake and eat it for far too long in my opinion. It should be a case of use it or lose it. if you can't offer your kids a pathway through and they choose to leave, you should absolutely not be allowed to circumvent that by using a second club as a warehouse for said talent because you resent said club potentially making a fee on that young player that you couldn't be arsed to develop.

For the benefit of football, I agree.

For the benefit of Spurs, I disagree.

It can be beneficial to the feeder club as well to receive talented players that can be pushed their first team football. They receive a fee and they have the benefit of higher grade of players probably on higher wages than they can afford mostly covered by us. I would have initially thought a club like Rangers would have been ideal when Warburton was there with his footballing philosophy and Spurs links but I guess the constant upheaval there proved me wrong.

 

[IGSpur]

I think this is going to be a common theme for a lot of premiership clubs over the next few years. Best way to deal with this is to create those links with Dutch, Belgian and German teams to get young players over there on a 2 or 3 year basis.

Can't stop the tide, can only position ourselves to benefit from it

I'm inclined to disagree. I would like to that sort of thing bought to an end. The big clubs have had their cake and eat it for far too long in my opinion. It should be a case of use it or lose it. if you can't offer your kids a pathway through and they choose to leave, you should absolutely not be allowed to circumvent that by using a second club as a warehouse for said talent because you resent said club potentially making a fee on that young player that you couldn't be arsed to develop.

Can see both sides. Firstly there's no guarantee it would work, look at Chelsea they use Vitesse and no one still every really gets a chance. Mount could easily be shafted while they bring in some average players, but I do feel they need to go abroad. However, I don't know why these clubs would accept working on them for 2/3 years only to send them back to us. There is no benefit for them really.

I guess it has worked with Christensen and Courtois but even with Chelsea who have excellent links that only happened twice. There will only be so many top quality clubs willing to offer that service, with no real reward.

I kind of agree what you are saying but I ultimately agree with Spurzinho, play them or lose them, though inserting buyback clauses is a somewhat happy medium.

Selfishly we'd want to hold onto these guys as long as possible, but you can't just keep holding onto them just in case, and can't expect someone to wait around for that. We change our mentality and the young players will change theirs.

 

[Locotoro]

Can see both sides. Firstly there's no guarantee it would work, look at Chelsea they use Vitesse and no one still every really gets a chance. Mount could easily be shafted while they bring in some average players, but I do feel they need to go abroad. However, I don't know why these clubs would accept working on them for 2/3 years only to send them back to us. There is no benefit for them really.

I guess it has worked with Christensen and Courtois but even with Chelsea who have excellent links that only happened twice. There will only be so many top quality clubs willing to offer that service, with no real reward.

I kind of agree what you are saying but I ultimately agree with Spurzinho, play them or lose them, though inserting buyback clauses is a somewhat happy medium.

Selfishly we'd want to hold onto these guys as long as possible, but you can't just keep holding onto them just in case, and can't expect someone to wait around for that. We change our mentality and the young players will change theirs.

I also agree with the buy back clause in principle but there's a huge problem with that. It works for Real Madrid because they are Real Madrid, practically can have 99% of players they want. In fact players will go back there only to be sold on for profit just because it's Real Madrid.

We don't have the same pull and that's a flaw.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Can see both sides. Firstly there's no guarantee it would work, look at Chelsea they use Vitesse and no one still every really gets a chance. Mount could easily be shafted while they bring in some average players, but I do feel they need to go abroad. However, I don't know why these clubs would accept working on them for 2/3 years only to send them back to us. There is no benefit for them really.

I guess it has worked with Christensen and Courtois but even with Chelsea who have excellent links that only happened twice. There will only be so many top quality clubs willing to offer that service, with no real reward.

I kind of agree what you are saying but I ultimately agree with Spurzinho, play them or lose them, though inserting buyback clauses is a somewhat happy medium.

Selfishly we'd want to hold onto these guys as long as possible, but you can't just keep holding onto them just in case, and can't expect someone to wait around for that. We change our mentality and the young players will change theirs.

I'd like to see a cap on the amount of young players clubs can register. But within that cap, I would be happy for long term loans (continental or otherwise) to exist because I think it's beneficial for the players primarily, and the parent club secondly and if the player develops, the host club get some benefit too.

 

[coys200]

Interesting stuff on Wells how old is he now? Looks no more than 30. It’s very rare you see someone with literally no playing experience given such a chance. As said he must be very highly rated.

 

[Spurzinho]

Interesting stuff on Wells how old is he now? Looks no more than 30. It’s very rare you see someone with literally no playing experience given such a chance. As said he must be very highly rated.

Its not that unusual. Brendan Rogers was forced to retire at a young age. Kieran McKenna was forced to retire without having played a senior game. Julian Nagelsmann at Hoffenheim is another one. AVB never played football at any level.

 

[coys200]

AVB story is pretty remarkable. Sounds like one of these guys you see on twitter that does tactical analysis and then has a chance meeting with a top manager at 19.

 

[spursfan77]

Definitely loves stirring does this lad. Someone needs to have a word in his shell-like.

he's coming across as a right bellend

 

[Dharmabum]

Surely it makes even more sense for the younger lads. I assume you are referring to Madeuke. When they are looking at some of the biggest talents in England not getting chances here, why would someone like Madueke arguably the best midfielder in his age group, stay at 16 and wait at least 4 years for a 10% shot of getting a decent go.

Whereas you look at players from lower league clubs, like Alli, Ampadu, Dozzell, Maddison, Stones or Gray getting chances when they are 16/17 at lower league clubs which lead to them getting moves to bigger clubs and genuinely considered. Or you just go abroad where you know if you are good enough at 17 you will be playing first team football.

Makes more sense to get out early, it's what a few of us have been saying, that the younger players will notice these things.

It's a trend that seem to get more common now in the EPL. When top-clubs can go out and plash £30-40-50-60-70M - and £20-30M on "bench-warmers" - on players it show how urgent it is for top-clubs to get success. You also see it at big clubs like Real M.: despite of attracting the top-talent in Spain it is very rare to see an academy player get a chance.
Clubs like Bor. Dor., Ajajx, PSV have an excellent track-record in developing talents.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

UEFA are looking into clubs stockpiling players. Juve are worse than Chelsea in this respect.it was mooted that only 4 players over 21 could be loaned. Not sure how much difference that would make as most of the loanees are younger than that. They need to do something . These lads are just getting shunted round from club to club and then sold off. At least the increase in teenagers not signing contracts and moving away might change this.

 

[Krafty]

Can't be surprised that our (and other English teams') youngsters are going abroad for whatever reason. Always happens as leagues mature, a generation of footballers break through but block the path for the next ten years - if you were a young striker at Spurs currently, do you think you will become first choice? Of course not, Kane will be arguably for the next 10 years.

Same reason why a load of Barca kids left for England - Fabregas couldn't see a way past Xavi, Iniesta, Pique couldn't see how he would get games, and there were loads of others from Spain that left but didn't quite make the top grade.

I think we can make a little unique route for ourselves in this country - a very strong club that maybe doesn't dominate but does give kids a chance - but as the club grows stronger, the harder it is to get a chance to prove yourself.

(and then someone like Sissoko happens and it makes me wonder just why the hell we signed him, when the game time could have been given to Onomah, with a few rare minutes for TOB or Skipp)

 

[Dharmabum]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/6693235/noni-madueke-psv-tottenham-hotspur-england/

MAD SKILLS Noni Madueke: He’s the England Under 16 star that left Spurs, snubbed Man United and signed for PSV for a first team chance
The midfielder boasts a magic wand of a left foot and just signed his first professional contract in Holland as he looks to build his career overseas


IT worked for Chelsea prospect Mason Mount, so Noni Madueke's gamble might just pay off.

The England Under 16 international was the darling of the Spurs side, highly thought of by manager Mauricio Pochettino.

Tottenham had offered the Noni a contract, but in true maverick style, the ambitious midfielder wanted to expand his horizons.

There were offers on the table from Chelsea, as well as Manchester United, who were interested in bringing the young talent to Old Trafford on trial.

However, the brave future star decided it was in his best interests to head to the Netherlands and sign for PSV, where he felt first team opportunities would be easier to come by.

The deal made him the youngest English player to move abroad to develop his career. But who is the talent that the team from Eindhoven have such high hopes for?

Recognised as a creative and physically strong playmaker, Noni possesses a magic left-foot with an eye for a killer through ball.

The wonderkid also has a powerful shot, scoring goals from distance regularly at youth level and has a calm head - slotting penalties home for fun.

Aged just 15, Noni played in the UEFA Youth League for Spurs last season and demonstrated his qualities on the pitch that make him a standout prospect.

At the Sonnenland Cup in 2017, he was named player of the tournament, taking centre stage for the North London giants who made the semifinals of the competition.

As a 15-year-old, Noni even played for Spurs' Under 18s and was captain of their Under 16 side, showing his ability to be a natural leader.

But it's in Holland where he will grow and hone his impressive skills.

After signing for PSV, Noni gave his reasons why he took the steps to move abroad.

"In my opinion PSV is the club where I can best develop myself," he told their club website.

"PSV is a massive club with a great history. I cannot wait to grow step by step to the first team."

John de Jong, Head of Scouting for the current Eredivisie champions, was equally as equally buoyant about the move, talking up the trend of English players making the bold move to Holland.

"It is very nice that a player with his background, English youth international playing for an English top club chooses the youth trajectory of PSV.

"That means that this boy sees perspective to break through and that is the intention. We believe in him and wish him every success.

"We are increasingly receiving the signal that English talents are open to a switch to the Netherlands.

"They see that the chance of breaking into the first team in the Netherlands at a young age is much greater than in England.

"A trend break with recent years, in which we saw many Dutch youth players just leave for England."

Only time will tell if Noni's roll of the dice with his career proves to be a risk worth taking.

 

[danielneeds]

It seems more and more of a mistake that we haven’t got a tie up with a Dutch or Belgian club to farm out our young players to. Really think McDermott is going to have to rethink our strategy as good players just won’t hang around anymore. Although we don’t know how Brexit will effect all of this yet.

 

[IGSpur]

It seems more and more of a mistake that we haven’t got a tie up with a Dutch or Belgian club to farm out our young players to. Really think McDermott is going to have to rethink our strategy as good players just won’t hang around anymore. Although we don’t know how Brexit will effect all of this yet.

It hasn't seemed to help Chelsea, I wonder how much having a partner abroad would really help us

 

[mancman]

I have enjoyed reading the various comments on young player development in recent days but I take exception to some of the assumptions made. Firstly young players from England such as Jadon Sancho and even our own Keanan Bennetts are saying they will get more opportunities abroad. What needs to be stressed though is that they are not being paid peanuts at their new clubs but more pertinently they are simply not good enough (at this moment in time) for either City or Spurs. If they had any affinity for the said clubs they would stay and learn their trade with a few loans also involved. If it was good enough for Harry Kane, Tom Carroll, Ryan Mason, Steve Caulker .........(the list goes on and on) then it should be good enough for the likes of Bennetts, Marcus Edwards and Reo Griffiths. Simply put these 18 and 19 year olds are simply not good enough (at the moment) for first team football. What I do see are some very spoilt young men backed by greedy agents. When Harry was 18/19 at for example Leyton Orient he most certainly was not ready for the first team but dare I say it he had humility, a love of Spurs and a terrific attitude/work ethic. Compare him to Griffiths and Edwards then decide.

 

[Sweech]

It hasn't seemed to help Chelsea, I wonder how much having a partner abroad would really help us

Yeah I was just going to say the exact same thing. The only thing it seems to have really helped Chelsea with is the sell on fee for the players who do go abroad on loan. Otherwise they’re losing youth players as well.

 

[WindyCOYS]

It hasn't seemed to help Chelsea, I wonder how much having a partner abroad would really help us

Tbf Chelsea change manager so often and crave success in such a way that youth development is not a priority and instead their academy is simply another way of them making money.

I think the model is broadly a good one and if it helps give our young players opportunity I’m all for it.

As a slight aside, interestingly we have some youngsters who may get to showcase their ability on a pre season tour and who may then get first team opportunities off the back of that. If they do, we’ll likely have the WC to thank for it. Mad that we’re constantly relying on first team players being absent (for various reasons) to blood youngsters. Our development model is so flawed, it’s time to try something new.

 

[alexis]

Probably coming from the agents too. For examples (and this is a complete hypothetical) Onomah's agent is convinced to sign the new deal cause there's a pathway for Josh. When his next client comes to sign his pro at 17 or 2nd pro contract at 19/20, is he gonna be convinced by the same promises? Football is a small world, it doesn't take much to change trends.

I think everyone acknowledged that the general level of talent has improved from English academies, the perils of the guys from the 93/94/95 generation have probably been learned from. Unfortunately most of the 97s/98s had already committed before everyone realised no matter how talented they are, they're unlikely to get a chance. Now this current crop of kids + their representatives have clocked on and know they have to be more proactive and flexible. You even see the clubs reacting to it now, making changes to their loan policies and selling players with buy back clauses etc, no one wins if you end up with a player in Chuba Akpom's situation.

It’s going to become the recognized path and good luck to them. Playing games in holland or Germany at 18 will be great for them and English footie in the long run so why not

 

[alexis]

I'm inclined to disagree. I would like to that sort of thing bought to an end. The big clubs have had their cake and eat it for far too long in my opinion. It should be a case of use it or lose it. if you can't offer your kids a pathway through and they choose to leave, you should absolutely not be allowed to circumvent that by using a second club as a warehouse for said talent because you resent said club potentially making a fee on that young player that you couldn't be arsed to develop.

Time to limit academy numbers and amount of loans you can have on the go smaller clubs need this revenue stream and it shouldn’t be siphoned off by the elite

 

[Lilbaz]

It’s going to become the recognized path and good luck to them. Playing games in holland or Germany at 18 will be great for them and English footie in the long run so why not

Unfortunately what will happen if young players keep going abroad (for very little) is that english teams will cut back how much they invest in developing youth.