The 'System'

[gerishep]

Basically we have a bunch of average to possibly goodish type players (propped up by Lloris) with a manager who has aspirations to get in the top 4. Well good luck with that.

 

[SpurSince57]

One of the worst in 25 years.

Yet last season it achieved 69 points, and under Sherwood the equivalent of 73 points over a season.

 

[Gassin's finest]

I personally find it quite ironic that we were excited about a manager who had a "philosophy", after Sherwood's 'Arry-lite "Fackin run araaand a bit."... only to find that his philosophy is essentially lots and lots of fitness, or in his words, "Mierda correr mucho!"

 

[yiddo23]

All of you are idiots

 

[talkshowhost86]

I don't disagree that we aren't playing well, but almost everyone without exception in the off-season said that we would write this season off to let Pochettino have the time to implement his philosophy and we all said we were prepared to have a season of transition because it would pay off in the long term. We all knew it was going to be a long term project to see the change we need. And yet so many people are saying now is the time to start judging.

I get that it's frustrating that we're not clicking yet, but we need to be patient. The answer isn't going to be changing the manager, so let's just all back off and give him the time he needs.

I haven't suggested anywhere that we should change the manager. I also haven't suggested that we don't give him time.

But that doesn't mean we can't assess his progress in the meantime, and there's no getting around the fact that at the moment his Progress Report reads 'well there hasn't really been any...'

 

[talkshowhost86]

This is the reason why I'm willing to back him. He's not coming out and saying "tough tie away in greece, shit pitch, we won, why are you complaining?" He's seeing what we're all seeing and he doesn't like it.

Yep that's certainly a positive. Whereas AVB would seem delighted with our turgid performances if we somehow snuck a win, at least Poch genuinely seems to want us to improve even if we do have that luck.

I think that's almost what worries me more though. He clearly isn't happy, he clearly wants to change things, he obviously has an idea in his head about what he wants to do (based on his previous clubs) and yet none of that seems to be translating onto the pitch after 15 or so games. It makes me suspect that the players are just being shitbags, and until Poch gets his own guys in we won't really see what he can do.

 

[only1waddle]

I'm referring to the isolated passage of play. Where we pressed them high up the pitch, Eriksen stole the ball, which fell to Lamela and he in turn fed Chadli to score. It's signs of a strategy. Now we might not be implementing it fully in different phases of play and different areas of the pitch, but it's still a sign of the philosophy Poch believes in. As if you go back and watch many of Southamptons goals from last season they were scored using this strategy.

I have said before that Southampton had the luxury of more open matches resulting in easier opportunities to win the ball high up or look for a ball over the top under MoPo last season, we constantly face teams that sit back, play deep and make the tactic of winning possession high up almost impossible, i think this has thrown him somewhat, Dortmund sometimes suffer the same problems when teams sit deep and stop their natural pressing game, they struggle to break teams down.

 

[only1waddle]

All of you are idiots

 

[Norwegian Spurs fan]

All of you are idiots

I tend to agree

 

[Rout-Ledge]

I don't disagree that we aren't playing well, but almost everyone without exception in the off-season said that we would write this season off to let Pochettino have the time to implement his philosophy and we all said we were prepared to have a season of transition because it would pay off in the long term. We all knew it was going to be a long term project to see the change we need. And yet so many people are saying now is the time to start judging.

I get that it's frustrating that we're not clicking yet, but we need to be patient. The answer isn't going to be changing the manager, so let's just all back off and give him the time he needs.

The trouble is that 'transition' doesn't usually mean 'absolutely no discernible improvement in play, game after game'.

I'm happy to give poch the season, but if we're playing like we are now by this time in May, then transition doesn't actually mean transition. It means stagnation.

 

[double0]

As far as im concerned its nothing to do with system. ...plane and simply IT'S THE PLAYERS.

most of them ain't good enough mentally.

 

[nicdic]

The trouble is that 'transition' doesn't usually mean 'absolutely no discernible improvement in play, game after game'.

I'm happy to give poch the season, but if we're playing like we are now by this time in May, then transition doesn't actually mean transition. It means stagnation.

If in May that's the case then go ahead and moan, but doing so now is counter productive.

As much as we like to say the players/manager/board/DOF are at fault for all of our problems, I feel like we have a massive problem in the fanbase.

 

[scat1620]

If in May that's the case then go ahead and moan, but doing so now is counter productive.

As much as we like to say the players/manager/board/DOF are at fault for all of our problems, I feel like we have a massive problem in the fanbase.

I'm in the "we need to back Poch for the next 2 seasons at least" camp, but do you not think we should be seeing ANY green shoots in terms of improvements by now? Do you expect us to 1) suddenly 'click' in a timespan of a couple of games at most; or 2) for our improvement to be more gradual, coming over the span of 10-20 games? I expect us to improve more gradually (2), and therefore I'm a little disappointed that we haven't seemingly seen anything that will give us encouragement for the future at the moment.

If you think that things will suddenly just 'click' into place then by all means don't make any judgements at all until the end of the season, but if you think that we will improve bit-by-bit then surely we're far enough into the season to be underwhelmed by what we've seen so far? (Said current underwhelmed mood certainly shouldn't be equated to wanting Poch out, nor even making a definitive judgement about how we think he will work out long-term for us.)

 

[Rout-Ledge]

If in May that's the case then go ahead and moan, but doing so now is counter productive.

As much as we like to say the players/manager/board/DOF are at fault for all of our problems, I feel like we have a massive problem in the fanbase.

I don't think its too surprising that our supporters are becoming disillusioned, after what's happened. I think we'll only see an improvement in attitude once the players start pulling their weight and we look like a team again.

 

[duffman22]

Against Arsenal we enjoyed 31% possession, had six shots (four on target) against 16 (six on target) and five corners (15). If the Gooners hadn't been so wasteful they'd have slaughtered us. Somehow we managed a very jammy and very flattering draw.

Under AVB we had 57% possession and 14 shots (four on target) against 12 (five on target); under Sherwood it was 59% and 17 (two) against seven (three).

Those figures show something clearly discernible, wouldn't you say?

I actually think they're a bit misleading.

In both AVB's and Sherwood's game we went a goal down in the first half and Wenger sat back and played on the counter knowing full well that we lacked the intelligence to break them down. Hence lots of possession and long range shots when we were chasing the game.

This year we kept ourselves in the game, nicked a goal at the beginning of the 2nd half and sat back and kept some defensive discipline. Arsenal dominated the possession and shots because, like us last year, they were chasing the game and the opposition were keeping men behind the ball hoping to get one on the counter.

In actual fact, Arsenal didn't have that many clear cut chances in the game earlier this year and relied on a miscued clearance to get themselves level. Yes we were under pressure and had little of the ball but we conceded far fewer clear cut chances than we did in the game at their place last season. I don't remember any 1 v 1 moments in September but I remember at least 2 or 3 in the AVB game.

The stats may look better but they don't show the quality of the chances or the tactics in relation to the scoreline.

 

[Mr Pink]

Against Arsenal we enjoyed 31% possession, had six shots (four on target) against 16 (six on target) and five corners (15). If the Gooners hadn't been so wasteful they'd have slaughtered us. Somehow we managed a very jammy and very flattering dr
Under AVB we had 57% possession and 14 shots (four on target) against 12 (five on target); under Sherwood it was 59% and 17 (two) against seven (three).

Those figures show something clearly discernible, wouldn't you say?

Just goes to show you how misleading stats can be and still people over rely on them, astonishing.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we were far more threatening in Poch's game than we were in AVB's there.

Couldn't give a monkeys on the stats - and four shots to six on target isn't an ocean of difference. We had numerous countering attacking opportunities, very good ones to, that arn't reflected in the stats. Far more of a guage than a pot shot, or a shot off target.

Couldn't disagree more actually. Fecking stats

 

[skiba]

I think I'm pretty much alone but I've seen some promising signs in the last month or so of Poch's philosophy starting to come through. Going forward I thought we looked quite good against City, Brighton and in the first half against Villa. We actually put together some decent moves in these games something that has been depressingly few and far between under previous managers. I think we are passing through the lines better than we have for a while (all be it still lacking creativity) and our aggression in winning the ball back has increased. Right now we aren't doing these things frequently enough or constantly enough to produce good performances and our defence is clearly letting us down.

I can't say I'm happy with performances right now but considering we are only 2 and half months into the season I'm not really to concerned either.

 

[SpurSince57]

I don't disagree that we aren't playing well, but almost everyone without exception in the off-season said that we would write this season off to let Pochettino have the time to implement his philosophy and we all said we were prepared to have a season of transition because it would pay off in the long term. We all knew it was going to be a long term project to see the change we need. And yet so many people are saying now is the time to start judging.

I get that it's frustrating that we're not clicking yet, but we need to be patient. The answer isn't going to be changing the manager, so let's just all back off and give him the time he needs.

They did? Was there a poll or something?

Sure, just about everyone agreed he would need time to get the squad playing the way he wanted, and nobody in their right mind was expecting us to be involved in a slug-fest for the title with Chelsea and City, but when did the 'write off the season' bit come into it? The football last season was pretty grim watching for the most part, but at least the results compensated and 69 points and 6th was a decent finish unless you happen to possess a grotesquely inflated sense of entitlement—probably something of an underachievement, but could we have amassed the 80 points needed to pip Arsenal for fourth? Highly unlikely.

It seems to me a not unreasonable expectation that Pochettino at least equal that achievement. What the hell was the point of giving Sherwood the bum's rush otherwise? Do you seriously think people on here will accept finishing up mid-table or worse? More pertinently, is Levy going to wear that? (Never mind the players.) Things aren't clicking yet? They're not looking remotely like clicking. The football has been at least as unpleasant to watch as last season, and we aren't getting the results to compensate; we're conceding more goals and scoring fewer (and it's not as if we were prolific under AVB and Sherwood). Without those exceedingly fortuitous wins against Wham and Villa things would be looking very bleak indeed; if Everton, Liverpool and United weren't also having problems we could be out of the reckoning already. Let's be thankful for small mercies.

No, now is certainly not the time to be judging; that would be absurd. However, it's certainly the time to start asking some serious questions. And if we don't see a serious improvement over the next 10-15 games, I really can't see Pochettino getting a second season.

 

[Hotspur33]

I think we have good players. But I don't have a clue what our best team is. I think Poch has the same problem.
I do think we have a problem at RB and LB. None of our fullbacks offer anything positive going forward.

Our wide players roam in field, and our fullbacks don't get forward enough. That is what I personally find most frustrating about us at present.

 

[SpurSince57]

Just goes to show you how misleading stats can be and still people over rely on them, astonishing.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we were far more threatening in Poch's game than we were in AVB's there.

Couldn't give a monkeys on the stats - and four shots to six on target isn't an ocean of difference. We had numerous countering attacking opportunities, very good ones to, that arn't reflected in the stats. Far more of a guage than a pot shot, or a shot off target.

Couldn't disagree more actually. Fecking stats

What's astonishing is that some people can take positives out of a game in which we were penned into our own area for nearly 70% of the time—other than that we put in a solid backs-to-the-wall defensive performance (especially as those have been in short supply so far). No, four shots to six on target isn't an ocean of difference, but Arsenal's profligacy was almost as bad as ours in March; as I pointed out, if they hadn't been so wasteful it would have been a regular slaughterhouse.

In March I was having to be restrained from throwing things at the telly as we blew chance after chance; in September I was practically hiding behind the sofa. Please don't tell me I rely on stats, Mr. P. I also rely on my eyes, and your 'we had numerous countering attacking opportunities' is spin of which Peter Mandelson would be proud.

I'm sure you can draw positives from our showing against the Barcodes!