The 'System'

[talkshowhost86]

First things first this isn't intended to be a negative thread.

I think that would be easy after the last four games but it's far far too early to be criticising Poch at this stage (and I liked his anger yesterday...much better to see than AVB's post-match 'there were pluses to the defeat'). The squad and the manager need time from both the board and the fans.

But what I was wondering was if anyone had seen any inkling of the changes that Poch is trying to put into place. I have to say that not being at the games I have to rely on what I can find coverage-wise and I don't think that's the best way to judge the game as a whole, so wanted to see what others think.

We are seeing a relatively high-line (for better or worse) but we had that under AVB. In terms of going forwards I haven't seen much different in how we were last season, and although there have been glimpses of the pressing game that we were all expecting, I wouldn't say this has been a particular feature so far.

But I'm probably missing it because a) I haven't seen every minute and b) I'm about as tactically astute as a blind possum/Tim Sherwood (*delete as appropriate).

So in many ways I'm actually looking for positives. What have people seen to suggest Poch is starting to implement his style and his system? Nobody is (or should be) expecting it to all be in place after such a short time, but I think it is important to see some sort of progress...so are we seeing that?

 

[DaSpurs]

While I too have only broadcasts from which to develop my opinion, I would agree with your assessment entirely. More press in higher positions, but that's about the only noticeable improvement. No increase in forward passing (intended to pin the opposition back, set up the high press, and allow the wide players to sit high - all of which is impossible without this forward passing), still as lethargic in midfield as we were under AVB, and still far too much ducking of responsibility/taking a chance.

We have got to see an increase in the forward passing, not only for our own sake in terms of attacking, but also to figuratively and literally help "prop up" the system to allow it to develop. Poch played a dynamic, mobile passer in midfield all of preseason, and then reverted to playing it safe with two holding mids at the start of the season and has stuck with it. The time has come for him to make an ultimatum, or we will continue to stall in our improvement. Either one of our more physical, sideways-thinking players steps up and adjusts their game to take on some responsibility and push the ball forward, or he plays someone such as Mason who will get the ball forward, or he sells someone again to move for a more forward-thinking player ASAP. But until this happens, we will continue to hopefully search for indications of improvement and continue to debate whether it's actually something significant or our eyes are simply looking through glasses of hope.

 

[Kaboul'sForehead]

Since Poch we have definitely seen:

-Incredibly good pressing
-High energy although lack of end product
-more forward and incisive passing (although rarely successful ala Lamela yesterday)
-Full backs stretching the pitch.
-[unfortunately] playing narrower further forward.


Results aside, there are many things to be positive about for the future. We have had fuck all games in the grand scheme of things. I keep saying it in other posts but this is NOT going to happen overnight. We need to stay patient and only get pissed off in the SHORT term when we lose games but keep the faith for the LONG term.

 

[KingKay]

When the keeper has the ball the centre backs split and the central midfielder drops in to the middle to give the keeper options. Whilst this is progressive we still seemed to struggle with distribution from the keeper yesterday. The width of the pitch at White Hart Lane doesn't help and has been holding us back for years. Then again the atmosphere doesn't help either, no wonder we're better on the road ... i'm rambling.

 

[mpickard2087]

Since Poch we have definitely seen:

-Incredibly good pressing
-High energy although lack of end product
-more forward and incisive passing (although rarely successful ala Lamela yesterday)
-Full backs stretching the pitch.
-[unfortunately] playing narrower further forward.


Results aside, there are many things to be positive about for the future. We have had fuck all games in the grand scheme of things. I keep saying it in other posts but this is NOT going to happen overnight. We need to stay patient and only get pissed off in the SHORT term when we lose games but keep the faith for the LONG term.

The first two of those points are very generous. The third slightly, especially in the final third of the pitch.

 

[Ironskullll]

Winner, because it makes me ramble too!

When the keeper has the ball the centre backs split and the central midfielder drops in to the middle to give the keeper options. Whilst this is progressive we still seemed to struggle with distribution from the keeper yesterday. The width of the pitch at White Hart Lane doesn't help and has been holding us back for years. The again the atmosphere doesn't help either, no wonder we're better on the road ... i'm rambling.

 

[talkshowhost86]

The first two of those points are very generous. The third slightly, especially in the final third of the pitch.

Yeah I have to say I haven't necessarily seen higher pressing/energy so far, although I suppose these are both things that will come with time once Poch has got them up to the fitness levels he expects.

In the first few minutes of the Liverpool game I thought we pressed brilliantly and I thought 'here we go...it's working!' but then one mistake and they all seemed to give up on it. Since then I'm not sure it's been in evidence as much.

 

[SlunkSoma]

Think the players still need convincing that Poch's approach is the way forward. They seem to revert to the aimless Sherwood days at the first sign of trouble. Fortune favours the brave, to dare is to do - they have to stick to their instructions and trust the manager.

 

[bat-chain]

It was good yesterday to hear Poch come out saying we need to play quicker.

I always felt we were too slow under AVB but he never even mentioned this at any point so it's nice to see Poch making it nice and early.

 

[spurslenny]

I'd prefer to see some heart and effort from the players to be honest.

Tactics are all fine and dandy, but they count for shit if A. The players don't implement them, and B. The players don't put a proper ball busting shift in.

 

[worcestersauce]

Yeah I have to say I haven't necessarily seen higher pressing/energy so far, although I suppose these are both things that will come with time once Poch has got them up to the fitness levels he expects.

In the first few minutes of the Liverpool game I thought we pressed brilliantly and I thought 'here we go...it's working!' but then one mistake and they all seemed to give up on it. Since then I'm not sure it's been in evidence as much.

I've seen it TSH along with greater movement ahead of the ball and giving the man on the ball more options, trouble is I saw none of them yesterday, also the splitting of the half backs going wide when Lloris has the ball led to Ciriches standing wide of the area two yards from the byline and so from goalkicks Lloris was practically kicking the ball backwards, that can't be how any system should work if played properly surely.

 

[RuskyM]

Our players looked exhausted yesterday. It's fucking September, so either they're all lazy (I haven't ruled this out) or Pochettino's gone a tad overboard on the fitness regimes.

But a "system" not the problem. The problem is the eleven players on the pitch aren't doing it.

 

[RuskyM]

fwiw we've only seen very good pressing against the teams we played in meaningless friendlies and the worst Premier League team since Derby 2008. Every time someone's given us a go we've been outwitted.

Early days, yes, but this lack of ideas would lead to the kind of stat as Pochettino's "never won from behind" one at Southampton. He really needs to adapt this, you can continue to attempt to break down a brick wall with your forehead or you can save yourself a lot of time and brain damage and instead think of alternatives to implement.

 

[SteveH]

Since Poch we have definitely seen:

1. -Incredibly good pressing
2. -High energy although lack of end product
3. -more forward and incisive passing (although rarely successful ala Lamela yesterday)
4. -Full backs stretching the pitch.
5. -[unfortunately] playing narrower further forward.

Results aside, there are many things to be positive about for the future. We have had fuck all games in the grand scheme of things. I keep saying it in other posts but this is NOT going to happen overnight. We need to stay patient and only get pissed off in the SHORT term when we lose games but keep the faith for the LONG term.

1. Not for me
2. first 20 minutes at Sunderland - lack of end product "in spades"
3. Not for me
4. Yes - Rose and Dyer do their best
5. Too narrow

 

[RuskyM]

shouout to danny rose for being our best attacking threat this season btw

 

[punkisback]

I don't believe we have enough space to play in; we need to drop a bit deeper to afford Eriksen and Lamela more space.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Our players looked exhausted yesterday. It's fucking September, so either they're all lazy (I haven't ruled this out) or Pochettino's gone a tad overboard on the fitness regimes.

But a "system" not the problem. The problem is the eleven players on the pitch aren't doing it.

Well this for me is the big question.

Are the players simply being a bit crap and not doing as they're told, or is there actually some sort of problem with the way we're trying to play itself.

I suppose it's much too early to tell at this stage...I'm not sure which would be worse!

 

[spursfan77]

When the keeper has the ball the centre backs split and the central midfielder drops in to the middle to give the keeper options. Whilst this is progressive we still seemed to struggle with distribution from the keeper yesterday. The width of the pitch at White Hart Lane doesn't help and has been holding us back for years. The again the atmosphere doesn't help either, no wonder we're better on the road ... i'm rambling.

Yep, so why didn't we change it rather than persisting with it for 90 minutes. Sometimes the players need to use their own initiative when they can see things aren't working. I think one of our problems is that we've assembled a team of robots rather than intelligent footballers.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

Every time we play 4231 I die a little bit inside.

That's what I think of the system.

 

[KingKay]

Every time we play 4231 I die a little bit inside.

That's what I think of the system.