Theoretical Playing Systems.

[mill]

you have a point, and with capel possibly going down the left wing, we dont need to wingers anyway, so its acsseptable. Hunt is a great example of a left footed right winger. However i sometimes feel its a wast of left footers playing them on the right

I know what you're saying, it is the norm to play left footers on the left and right footers on the right to acheive balance but for me i couldn't give a f*ck as long as the player is comfortable in that position, thats the important part for me.

I'd like us to go 4231, even if it means dropping keano, as I've been a fan of this formation for a while now (never forget Portugal coming back from 2 down against England playing like this) as if you have the right players I think it allows a lot of flexibility, you can switch to other formations easily and I think with this you can play great football with 3 great attacking players (Capel, Modric and GDS for example) all switching positions and tearing defences to pieces. Opposing mangers wont know who to double up on as there is so many attacking threats

 

[C0YS]

I know what you're saying, it is the norm to play left footers on the left and right footers on the right to acheive balance but for me i couldn't give a f*ck as long as the player is comfortable in that position, thats the important part for me.

I'd like us to go 4231, even if it means dropping keano, as I've been a fan of this formation for a while now (never forget Portugal coming back from 2 down against England playing like this) as if you have the right players I think it allows a lot of flexibility, you can switch to other formations easily and I think with this you can play great football with 3 great attacking players (Capel, Modric and GDS for example) all switching positions and tearing defences to pieces. Opposing mangers wont know who to double up on as there is so many attacking threats

I like the formation to, and its very flexable. But what do you do with a talent like Keane!?, and we better get cracking and buy at least 1 DM, if not 2

 

[mill]

I like the formation to, and its very flexable. But what do you do with a talent like Keane!?, and we better get cracking and buy at least 1 DM, if not 2

I whole heartedly agree we'd definately need at least 1 if not 2 strong DM's as vital a part of the system as the attackers. There has been ITK to suggest we have a shortlist of them we are looking at, perhaps 1 off that list and someone older and experienced and fairly cheap, Albeda would be my suggestion for that one, he's been previously linked and all is not well at Valencia.

Keane's the only draw back, I can't really see him fitting into that system. He doesn't deserve to be dropped but if it's for the good of the club then so be it, also maybe we would change formations to suit games as this seems to be what most clubs do in the modern game, so some games maybe we'd play 442 with keane starting.

 

[joey55]

I like the formation to, and its very flexable. But what do you do with a talent like Keane!?, and we better get cracking and buy at least 1 DM, if not 2

I like that system aswell, but one of the things that really appeals to me about it, is that by DM roles are fairly limited and therefore they don't have to be that good. Neville and Carsely often play together in a system that isn't too different from that and though neither are talented, by working hard they keep things tight and make Everton very hard to break down. I don't see any reason why Zokora and JJ couldn't do similar roles, but very effectively. Both consistently show their limitations in a 442 formation, but by playing 3 or 4 technical players in front of them, their limtiations aren't such a problem. Both JJ and Zokora are very athleitc players and hard workers. If given the simple task of breaking the play up and prtotecting the back 4, I'm sure between them, thye'd be very effective. The system Lille have used with Makoun and Mavuba has been incredibly effective in the 2nd half of the Ligue 1 season and they really don't do alot, other than make it difficult for the oppositon. I think the key is to make sure you have top class techncial and creative players infront of them.

 

[C0YS]

I like that system aswell, but one of the things that really appeals to me about it, is that by DM roles are fairly limited and therefore they don't have to be that good. Neville and Carsely often play together in a system that isn't too different form that and though neither are talented, by working hard they keep things tight and make Everton very hard to break down. I don't see any reason why Zokora and JJ couldn't do similar roles, but very effectively. Both consistently show their limitations in a 442 formation, but by playing 3 or 4 technical players in front of them, their limtiations aren't such a problem. Both JJ and Zokora are very athleitc players and hard workers. If given the simple task of breaking the play up and prtotecting the back 4, I'm sure between them, thye'd be very effective. The system Lille have used with Makoun and Mavuba has been incredibly effective in the 2nd half ig the Ligue 1 season and they really don't do alot, other than make it difficult for the oppositon. I think he key is to make sure you have top class techncial and creative players infront of them.

Now he will be great in a spurs shirt. My prob is I would rather have JJ in the 3, in a rotation of some kind, I think he is far to negative when he starts defending. Makoun is to similar to Zokora, but dont see why it wont work. I understand your point and think you are right. However if we do get Barry (which is really really unlikely) where would he play, i did suggest in the DM role, but will he work their!? and if he does, do we make us of his abilities their best!?

 

[mill]

I think you're right j55, I just don't rate jj and Zokora and want them replaced but thats a personal thing. I think playing this way could get the best out of the incredible Thudd, someone next to him destroying and him helping that and also using his excellent range of passing to release the talents in front of him also then opposition team can't dismiss the 2 holding players as no attacking threat.

 

[C0YS]

I think you're right j55, I just don't rate jj and Zokora and want them replaced but thats a personal thing. I think playing this way could get the best out of the incredible Thudd, someone next to him destroying and him helping that and also using his excellent range of passing to release the talents in front of him also then opposition team can't dismiss the 2 holding players as no attacking threat.

point well said. Hudd could work in their, despite the fact he is more of an attacking threat, It also means if we have 2 CDMs who break down play, Hudd can play in CB, with a lot more time he can do better passes, and not worry to much about attackers running at him for 1 of the DMs can cover him.

 

[joey55]

Now he will be great in a spurs shirt. My prob is I would rather have JJ in the 3, in a rotation of some kind, I think he is far to negative when he starts defending. Makoun is to similar to Zokora, but dont see why it wont work. I understand your point and think you are right. However if we do get Barry (which is really really unlikely) where would he play, i did suggest in the DM role, but will he work their!? and if he does, do we make us of all his abilities their!?

I think so. I think in a 2 man deffensive midfield formation, most players will work. It's just such a limited role. Barry just adds something extra to the role, in that he can spot an early pass (as cam Makoun). I'm not so keen on the idea of JJ as part of the three. I'd want creativity on both flanks and behind the striker. I pretty much explained my thinking in this thread a few weeks ago:
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=881686&highlight=zokora#post881686

I'd love Barry or Makoun, but if we ar eplaying a 4231 system, than I'm not sure players of their quality are necessary. Though I do think we need to buy a better CM of some description, because I seriously doubt we'll not play 442 at times. So the likes of Barry, De la Red or Makoun would be great.

 

[mill]

bit off topic (sorry mods) but am I the only one who thinks Benitez doesn't know what he's doing, Gerrad, Alonso and Masherano, w*nked last year over how good Lucas is gonna be now wants another CM? Same approach with strikers buys new ones every season, ok Torres was brilliant this year but cost a bomb. He's spent a fortune on players, some good some gash, bought loads of youngsters but always moaning he needs to spend more, if I was his chairman I wouldn't be too keen on letting him spend my money, what happened to finding and developing talent

 

[joey55]

bit off topic (sorry mods) but am I the only one who thinks Benitez doesn't know what he's doing, Gerrad, Alonso and Masherano, w*nked last year over how good Lucas is gonna be now wants another CM? Same approach with strikers buys new ones every season, ok Torres was brilliant this year but cost a bomb. He's spent a fortune on players, some good some gash, bought loads of youngsters but always moaning he needs to spend more, if I was his chairman I wouldn't be too keen on letting him spend my money, what happened to finding and developing talent

He's a quality coach and tactician, but when he won titles at Valencia, Pitarch was buying the players.

 

[C0YS]

bit off topic (sorry mods) but am I the only one who thinks Benitez doesn't know what he's doing, Gerrad, Alonso and Masherano, w*nked last year over how good Lucas is gonna be now wants another CM? Same approach with strikers buys new ones every season, ok Torres was brilliant this year but cost a bomb. He's spent a fortune on players, some good some gash, bought loads of youngsters but always moaning he needs to spend more, if I was his chairman I wouldn't be too keen on letting him spend my money, what happened to finding and developing talent

TBH Rafa in my view his biggest weakness is buying players, brilliant coach but he cant buy. Every year he needs to upgrade his midfield and Attack, simply 'cos they are not top 4 standard. But he has some players who are fantastic, which makes up for some of their problems. If Barry had any sense he wont go to liverpool, where he may play 15 games a season, being constantly rotated. The thing is is they do buy Barry, we should pounce on Alonso, who I highly rate

 

[mill]

I'd love Barry or Makoun, but if we ar eplaying a 4231 system, than I'm not sure players of their quality are necessary. Though I do think we need to buy a better CM of some description, because I seriously doubt we'll not play 442 at times. So the likes of Barry, De la Red or Makoun would be great.

Yes but if these players are of a high quality it gives opponents a lot more to worry about, if you played a team that played 4231 with the everton pair you wouldn't be as worried about them hurting you as players of the talent of lets say Carrick and essien.

 

[C0YS]

I think next season we will play 4-4-2 against the weaker teams, and deploy the 4-2-3-1 against the tougher teams.....we will just have to wait and see

 

[joey55]

Yes but if these players are of a high quality it gives opponents a lot more to worry about, if you played a team that played 4231 with the everton pair you wouldn't be as worried about them hurting you as players of the talent of lets say Carrick and essien.

I agree, but what I meant was that they don't become such a priority. For example, if we are playing a 442, then it is obvious that we must buy better CMs. But in a 4231, then they aren't so important as the role they are being asked to play is more limited and therefore we should prioritse in other areas. In a 442, the CMs muct have the ability to set a rythem, score goals, pick passes etc. This isn't so important in a 4231 formation as first and foremost they are there to break things up etc.

 

[mill]

Yeah I see what your saying j55, If we buy 2 good DM's( as I said i dont rate jj & zoko) we can switch between the two formations easily and not worry about our midfield showing us up in a 442.

 

[joey55]

Yeah I see what your saying j55, If we buy 2 good DM's( as I said i dont rate jj & zoko) we can switch between the two formations easily and not worry about our midfield showing us up in a 442.

That would be ideal, but I guess it depends on the budgets. We spent £20 million in Jan, have already spent £16.5 million on Modric and will possibly be spening another £25 million on Capel and Gio. Not to mention the Dunne and GK rumours. So unless we sell Berba, we might have to settle for 1 CM or accept what we have and make the best of them. Personally, if i was Ramos I'd make a GK and CM my priority.

 

[Dibby]

I'm right footed and reguarly switch between sides, usually starting at LM. I see no problems with Malbranque/Lennon doing the same as they have been. Modric either for that matter.

 

[juande.is.a.yido]

i think it could work with keane, always liked him playing off the striker.

attacking four 1 : Berbatov
...................Capel Modric Dos Santos

attacking four 2 : Bent
...............Malbranque Keane Lennon

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm tasty.

 

[C0YS]

I'm right footed and reguarly switch between sides, usually starting at LM. I see no problems with Malbranque/Lennon doing the same as they have been. Modric either for that matter.

yeah I think we covered that in the TRF, erm, basically this convo started with someone showing a formation with Dos Santos RW, at which point i said that he is left footed so in a 4-4-2 he will have to play in the center if we get Capel, and Modric on the right. Them mill said in Barca Dos Santos played RAM and cut in, Messi did the same on the other flank, then I stated that in a 4-4-2 it dosent work like that. then Mill said that as long as the players felt confterball it didnt matter. and follows on from their.

Now bouth Lennon in the discussed 4-2-3-1 formation, will prob be rotational players in the 3 bit. cos we can only have 3 and if we by Capel and Dos Santos then we have 3.. Which of course will be Rotated, and in those cercemstances you may well want Lennon to play on the Left, cos it will help him cut in....

 

[mill]

i think it could work with keane, always liked him playing off the striker.

attacking four 1 : Berbatov
...................Capel Modric Dos Santos

attacking four 2 : Bent
...............Malbranque Keane Lennon

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm tasty.

Played behind a front 2 at Wolves but developed more into a striker but the more experience he gains dropping back might suit him, as hopefully experience would help him time his runs and pick the right passes. I think though there are better options for that role