This second striker to 'support' Kane

[lukespurs7]

Respectfully, I disagree

What was our biggest problem last season and in fact in the preceding 3 seasons? Answer: Breaking down teams that park the bus. The reason we struggled so much with this is because since Modric and VDV we have not had a player who can consistently unlock a defence and we haven't had a defensive shield who gives confidence to the offensive players in front.

Seeing as we simply cannot afford the quality number 10 we would need and that would still leave us short in the holding role our most important signing will be who/if we bring in a defensive midfielder capable of sitting in front of the back four and slotting in between the centre backs when the fullbacks push on forward to provide width.

If we get someone who knows the role and plays it well it will not only seal our defence but also give players like Bentaleb, Chadli and Eriksen more confidence to make movements into the box where our fullbacks can deliver from wide. With fullbacks like Rose and Trippier having more targets in the box we can be in a better position to defeat those teams that load 10 men in the penalty area and wait to hit us on the break.

Aside from providing a back up to Kane the addition of a CF/WF is going to have limited effect on those games where there is very little room to run into down the touch line. Sure they would be useful against the top sides but I don't believe UCL qualification will be won against the top sides, it will depend on our results against the WBAs and Crystal Palace's of this world

Very good post!! Agreed. But ST/WF back-up is still important as Ade and Soldado are like having nothing at all.

 

[Klinsmann33]

As mentioned on the first page, Calum Wilson.

 

[spurs9]

Respectfully, I disagree

What was our biggest problem last season and in fact in the preceding 3 seasons? Answer: Breaking down teams that park the bus. The reason we struggled so much with this is because since Modric and VDV we have not had a player who can consistently unlock a defence and we haven't had a defensive shield who gives confidence to the offensive players in front.

Seeing as we simply cannot afford the quality number 10 we would need and that would still leave us short in the holding role our most important signing will be who/if we bring in a defensive midfielder capable of sitting in front of the back four and slotting in between the centre backs when the fullbacks push on forward to provide width.

If we get someone who knows the role and plays it well it will not only seal our defence but also give players like Bentaleb, Chadli and Eriksen more confidence to make movements into the box where our fullbacks can deliver from wide. With fullbacks like Rose and Trippier having more targets in the box we can be in a better position to defeat those teams that load 10 men in the penalty area and wait to hit us on the break.

Aside from providing a back up to Kane the addition of a CF/WF is going to have limited effect on those games where there is very little room to run into down the touch line. Sure they would be useful against the top sides but I don't believe UCL qualification will be won against the top sides, it will depend on our results against the WBAs and Crystal Palace's of this world

Even with Modric & VDV we struggled to break teams down at times. IMO, we have gotten even worse since then because we don't get the ball quick enough forward, so teams can sit back and counter, knowing that they will have time to re-set the defence when the move breaks down. This also went down a notch when Bale left, as we didn't even have the pace even if we did get the ball forward. I think if we can get a CM that plays the ball forward quickly (as well as having good defensive skills/positioning), then we teams won't look to hit us on the counter as quickly or as often and when they do, we will be more likely to profit from it when the move breaks down.

That being said, we don't know if Alli, Carroll (who apparently improved on his loan) or one of our other youngsters can do this role but we know Soldado & Ade are not effective back up for Kane and we don't have a youngster anywhere near close to the 1st team as a striker. For me, back up striker and a pacey, direct wide forward slightly edge DM in importance for me.

 

[beats1]

People will disagree, but I personally would want someone who will run through brick walls for the team. He would work hard, lead the line, be an absolute pest and give 110% and lead the press from the front.

There is one player who is only suited to a high pressing game and thats Vargas

Record under Sampaoli(product of bielsa): 59 goals in 50 games(club level) and
-------------------------------------------------------- 20 goals in 28 games for the national team
Record for Chile before Sampaoli: 3 goals in 15 games
Record for Napoli, Valencia and QPR: 12 in 62 games

Wanted by arsenal according to rumours, would be a good target for us

 

[Spursidol]

Respectfully, I disagree

What was our biggest problem last season and in fact in the preceding 3 seasons? Answer: Breaking down teams that park the bus. The reason we struggled so much with this is because since Modric and VDV we have not had a player who can consistently unlock a defence and we haven't had a defensive shield who gives confidence to the offensive players in front.

Seeing as we simply cannot afford the quality number 10 we would need and that would still leave us short in the holding role our most important signing will be who/if we bring in a defensive midfielder capable of sitting in front of the back four and slotting in between the centre backs when the fullbacks push on forward to provide width.

If we get someone who knows the role and plays it well it will not only seal our defence but also give players like Bentaleb, Chadli and Eriksen more confidence to make movements into the box where our fullbacks can deliver from wide. With fullbacks like Rose and Trippier having more targets in the box we can be in a better position to defeat those teams that load 10 men in the penalty area and wait to hit us on the break.

Aside from providing a back up to Kane the addition of a CF/WF is going to have limited effect on those games where there is very little room to run into down the touch line. Sure they would be useful against the top sides but I don't believe UCL qualification will be won against the top sides, it will depend on our results against the WBAs and Crystal Palace's of this world

Sorry, just wrong.

if Kane is injured we are fucked with the current squad - that's one reason why we need a competent alternative striker

We played about 60 games last season - Kane looked knackered playing in n a lot of these last season often playing weekend, midweek and then weekend again. End result was he wasn't always as effective as he could have been - despite a fantastic 30+ goals a season. So we need an alternative goalscoring striker who we don't have just now.

That's why an alternative striker is essential - we cannot get by with what we have now

At CM we have the numbers in the squad now, even though we don't have the experience. As other posters have said, we found it difficult to break down sides sitting back even when when we had Modric and VDV in the side. At the moment one of the best players we have to break down those type of sides is Tom Carroll as a CM - I don't see us buying a CM like Modric as he's virtually unique.

At AM Eriksen is effective but played too much - Pritchard reinforcing him by playing when Eriksen has played enough is ideal.

A striker/WF who has speed could also play a part in breaking down sides who sit back by playing the WF role - and adding speed on the wings which we currently do not have

 

[Locotoro]

Sorry, just wrong.

if Kane is injured we are fucked with the current squad - that's one reason why we need a competent alternative striker

We played about 60 games last season - Kane looked knackered playing in n a lot of these last season often playing weekend, midweek and then weekend again. End result was he wasn't always as effective as he could have been - despite a fantastic 30+ goals a season. So we need an alternative goalscoring striker who we don't have just now.

That's why an alternative striker is essential - we cannot get by with what we have now

At CM we have the numbers in the squad now, even though we don't have the experience. As other posters have said, we found it difficult to break down sides sitting back even when when we had Modric and VDV in the side. At the moment one of the best players we have to break down those type of sides is Tom Carroll as a CM - I don't see us buying a CM like Modric as he's virtually unique.

At AM Eriksen is effective but played too much - Pritchard reinforcing him by playing when Eriksen has played enough is ideal.

A striker/WF who has speed could also play a part in breaking down sides who sit back by playing the WF role - and adding speed on the wings which we currently do not have

I don't agree with your logic.

You argue that we don't have a quality back up striker despite having Soldado and Ade (yes they are not good enough in the role) but then argue it's not a problem that we don't have the quality first choice player for the DM role?

Of the players who play CM, none of them, including Carroll, can play that DM position to an adequate quality and for me having an improved DM for the first team is more important to our team than a back up to Kane.

I don't disagree with the requirement of a back up striker but in my opinion the DM position is more important.

Additionally I agree with your Modric comment. I wasn't suggesting we find a new Modric, merely that he was a player that started the play and we don't have that "Architect" type who controls the game from deep and can provide that defensive cover.

On this need to have a pacy WF, you know as well as I do that it's practically useless against sides that sit back and I'd rather have a player that improves our chances against the 14 teams below us than the 4 teams above that will come at us.

 

[Spursidol]

I don't agree with your logic.

You argue that we don't have a quality back up striker despite having Soldado and Ade (yes they are not good enough in the role) but then argue it's not a problem that we don't have the quality first choice player for the DM role?

Of the players who play CM, none of them, including Carroll, can play that DM position to an adequate quality and for me having an improved DM for the first team is more important to our team than a back up to Kane.

I don't disagree with the requirement of a back up striker but in my opinion the DM position is more important.

Additionally I agree with your Modric comment. I wasn't suggesting we find a new Modric, merely that he was a player that started the play and we don't have that "Architect" type who controls the game from deep and can provide that defensive cover.

On this need to have a pacy WF, you know as well as I do that it's practically useless against sides that sit back and I'd rather have a player that improves our chances against the 14 teams below us than the 4 teams above that will come at us.

Not correct, neither Soldado nor Adebayor score goals so they are not strikers by any sort of definition.

We only have one goalscoring striker - Kane

That's why an alternative goals coring striker is essential.

We have CM's aplenty - not all ideal in experience etc, but at least we have cover (Mason, Bentaleb, Dembele, Allii, Carroll - so that's 5 for 2 positions) - unlike at striker where we have no .

Oh, and its a much trotted out line but true - goals win games.

If Kane is fucked, then whatever CM's we have we are in big trouble.

 

[Locotoro]

Not correct, neither Soldado nor Adebayor score goals so they are not strikers by any sort of definition.

We only have one goalscoring striker - Kane

That's why an alternative goals coring striker is essential.

We have CM's aplenty - not all ideal in experience etc, but at least we have cover (Mason, Bentaleb, Dembele, Allii, Carroll - so that's 5 for 2 positions) - unlike at striker where we have no .

Oh, and its a much trotted out line but true - goals win games.

If Kane is fucked, then whatever CM's we have we are in big trouble.

I don't think it's a feasible argument to say because Ade and Soldado have not performed we can't call them strikers but then say we are covered for DM despite not having players capable of the same.

It's the same problem in both situations, we don't have a capable back up to Kane and we don't have a capable player for the DM role.

My opinion is that a first choice need is greater to a back up need. Additionally I think the right DM is more pertinent to our style of play as well.

 

[muppetman]

In an ideal world we would buy someone who was a real threat to Kane's position as first choice striker. Unfortunately I can't se that happening and I wonder if Chadli might be Plan B?

 

[Spursidol]

I don't think it's a feasible argument to say because Ade and Soldado have not performed we can't call them strikers but then say we are covered for DM despite not having players capable of the same.

It's the same problem in both situations, we don't have a capable back up to Kane and we don't have a capable player for the DM role.

My opinion is that a first choice need is greater to a back up need. Additionally I think the right DM is more pertinent to our style of play as well.

No, a striker has to score goals, otherwise he's useless as a striker.

That's why Soldado has failed over 2 seasons to do his basic job. Adebayor did ok under Tim, but seemed to lose it under Poch probably for the 'family reasons;' which he leaked out (and it sounded a horror story so he has my sympathy).

However the sooner we get rid of both and get in a striker who can score goals as an alternative to Kane - and preferably a striker/WF the better. Very happy to get an experienced CM as well, but that (logically) has to be 2nd in priority - unless you just like a non scoring Soldado ?

 

[Locotoro]

No, a striker has to score goals, otherwise he's useless as a striker.

That's why Soldado has failed over 2 seasons to do his basic job. Adebayor did ok under Tim, but seemed to lose it under Poch probably for the 'family reasons;' which he leaked out (and it sounded a horror story so he has my sympathy).

However the sooner we get rid of both and get in a striker who can score goals as an alternative to Kane - and preferably a striker/WF the better. Very happy to get an experienced CM as well, but that (logically) has to be 2nd in priority - unless you just like a non scoring Soldado ?

We agree on the need for both but disagree on the priority of one over the other.

A non scoring Soldado is about as useful as some of our CM's when they try to hold quite frankly.

If you look at Chelsea the player who made the biggest difference to their play last season was Matic. He gave them such confidence and freedom that they didn't have to worry about getting exploited through the middle. That's the player we need, we have players that can score, we're not solely reliant on Kane for goals

 

[Spursidol]

We agree on the need for both but disagree on the priority of one over the other.

A non scoring Soldado is about as useful as some of our CM's when they try to hold quite frankly.

If you look at Chelsea the player who made the biggest difference to their play last season was Matic. He gave them such confidence and freedom that they didn't have to worry about getting exploited through the middle. That's the player we need, we have players that can score, we're not solely reliant on Kane for goals

No Soldado is useless as a striker as he doesn't score goals

That I suspect is the difference between us.

 

[Lilbaz]

We managed to beat chelsea snd arsenal last year without a dm playing. What was the last game we won without playing a striker?

 

[Yid-ol]

We managed to beat chelsea snd arsenal last year without a dm playing. What was the last game we won without playing a striker?

I was going to say October 5th but Kane came on as a sub during that game

 

[Locotoro]

No Soldado is useless as a striker as he doesn't score goals

That I suspect is the difference between us.

No, you are prioritising a back up whereas I'm prioritising a first team player.

That my friend is the difference between us.

 

[PeeEyeEmPee]

I feel there's too much Football Manager thinking with this mythical AM/F R/L/C chap everyone seems to be after. I'm of the opinion that we need a wide man with pace and genuine creativity, and a quality centre-forward. yes you sometimes get players that can do both to a high level, but they don't exactly grow on trees.

my second gripe is with the notion that any striker being brought in has to be a backup to Kane. if Kane were at any other club and we were talking about bringing him in for £30m+, most would be in agreement that it was probably risky based on one good season, yet we're now here telling ourselves we've got a proven top-drawer striker and only need someone to fill in for him when he gets tired or injured. umm no...just no. we need quality to push Kane, keep him on his toes, and yes actually replace him in the team if his level drops or is exceeded. we do also have the option of playing Kane a little deeper behind another striker, it's not like we're currently bursting at the seams with creativity and couldn't do with an improvement in quality in that area.

 

[spursram]

Looks like it won't be Benteke.

 

[peteblue]

We need to sign Austin and Berahino and make a statement of intent. Ade and Soldado should be sold immediately to make way for these two players.

 

[Spursidol]

No, you are prioritising a back up whereas I'm prioritising a first team player.

That my friend is the difference between us.

Nope. Kane cannot play every of the almost 60 games we played last season and there is no cover for him as a goalscorer - so in 20 games a season the incoming striker has to play, and if Kane is injured, the incoming striker plays. That's why its a priority

If we get a striker/WF then we upgrade the AM department too - and that's a bonus

You are hoping that we get a CM who improves last season's CM2 when we already have Alli, Carroll and Veljkovic, light on experience but technically good ( the least experienced, Veljkovic, was rated ,more highly than Bentaleb 2 years ago and has been ready to play PL football for 18 months, but too many expensive mediocre CM's to play him). So I'd agree that the right experienced CM would de-risk or improve us - but no point in bringing in another Capoue or Stambouli.

I can't put it any more clearer, so if you don't agree, so be it, no point in debating further my friend.

 

[Locotoro]

Nope. Kane cannot play every of the almost 60 games we played last season and there is no cover for him as a goalscorer - so in 20 games a season the incoming striker has to play, and if Kane is injured, the incoming striker plays. That's why its a priority

If we get a striker/WF then we upgrade the AM department too - and that's a bonus

You are hoping that we get a CM who improves last season's CM2 when we already have Alli, Carroll and Veljkovic, light on experience but technically good ( the least experienced, Veljkovic, was rated ,more highly than Bentaleb 2 years ago and has been ready to play PL football for 18 months, but too many expensive mediocre CM's to play him). So I'd agree that the right experienced CM would de-risk or improve us - but no point in bringing in another Capoue or Stambouli.

I can't put it any more clearer, so if you don't agree, so be it, no point in debating further my friend.

I think you're perhaps missing my point.
I'm not hoping for another Capoue or Stambouli. Over the course of a season an improvement to the DM role Is going to provide more of a benefit than someone who will play 20 games as you say.

If on the other hand Poch determines that Veljkovic is suitable for the role then that would satisfy me just as much as a new signing.

For me it's not a need for a new signing it's the style of player that we need in the first team.