THST Statement on the Transfer Window

[robin09]

I'm sorry but I fail to believe the Poch didnt want all the player from abroad BS.

He works with a scout and has done before in Mitchell. I bet if you looked at the players signed at Sthampton most of them were from abroad. Some people have an agenda and love to wheel it out at this time of year, EVERY YEAR!

You could be 100% correct. The fact that someone with an agenda is able to wheel it out every year, does tell us something though.

 

[Jamturk]

Ok, if we couldn't get the players we wanted why not loan in the players to fill the gaps.

 

[tttcowan]

Everybody almost unanimously wanted those three players out. They are out, and now some wishing we hadn't. Even though most wanted them nowhere near the team most of the time.

I think you'll find everyone who wanted to sell Soldado would only say to do so if he were replaced. Even if that were a 20 year old 5 mill prospect... Nobody would of wanted to sell Soldado if we weren't going to replace him. And it wasn't like we sold him on deadline day was it.

This is what everyones problem is. We could of said we aren't selling Soldado until we have a striker in if we weren't sure we could get a replacement in. It's not like the club doesn't have the capital to do it that way around.

It's a completely justified concern and we're all glad that letter has been sent.

 

[alfie103]

I think you'll find everyone who wanted to sell Soldado would only say to do so if he were replaced. Even if that were a 20 year old 5 mill prospect... Nobody would of wanted to sell Soldado if we weren't going to replace him. And it wasn't like we sold him on deadline day was it.

This is what everyones problem is. We could of said we aren't selling Soldado until we have a striker in if we weren't sure we could get a replacement in. It's not like the club doesn't have the capital to do it that way around.

It's a completely justified concern and we're all glad that letter has been sent.

The lack of strikers is a concern no doubt but Soldado was just ineffectual towards the end and barely contributed to the teams play. Frankly Levy has done very well to get £10 million for him and his high wages off our wage bill.

 

[Metalhead]

I think you'll find everyone who wanted to sell Soldado would only say to do so if he were replaced. Even if that were a 20 year old 5 mill prospect... Nobody would of wanted to sell Soldado if we weren't going to replace him. And it wasn't like we sold him on deadline day was it.

This is what everyones problem is. We could of said we aren't selling Soldado until we have a striker in if we weren't sure we could get a replacement in. It's not like the club doesn't have the capital to do it that way around.

It's a completely justified concern and we're all glad that letter has been sent.

The only thing is that Soldado scored so few goals that I really don't see how keeping him would have made any difference.

 

[nicdic]

Dude, are you even reading what I'm saying? I never said we can buy whoever we want. I said we ought to fill the positions we need. You don't neglect signing a forward because we didn't get Berahino. You change your target. With that logic every club would have one target and one target only and failing to bring him in would spell no activity. It would also set a dangerous precedent whereby the selling Club recognises the strictly "him or no one" attitude and demand threefold the player's worth!!

I am reading what you're saying, I'm just trying to engage you and the general feeling that seems to be prevailing right now.

The problem with just saying we ought to fill the positions we need, is that it's looking at the situation from only our perspective. Clubs never want to sell their best players, and because of the position of our club we have a tough battle to sign players who are obviously a step up. When the clubs either don't want to sell or the player doesn't want to come what do we do? You keep talking about moving on to other targets, but it seems to me exactly like we've done that. Take the DM for example. We tried Schneiderlin, didn't happen. We tried Kramer and Bender, and it didn't happen. We tried Wanyama, it didn't happen. We tried Witsel, it didn't happen. Maybe our list should have been longer than four, but maybe the players who would have been five, six, or seven in the list actually weren't going to be significant enough of an improvement to warrant the chase. Perhaps, the manager was happier to stick than sign a Stambouli to just fill the space in the squad. Ideally we'd have signed the players we wanted, but it's more difficult than people seem to want to believe.

As for the Le Tiss story, you seem quick to just say "oh but we know nothing" when a point is raised that shows your opinion is based on flawed logic. If we know nothing, then we might as well just have one thread for every topic with one post saying "oh I wonder what happened?" before being locked because anything else would be speculation.

You're right, the flawed logic is to assume that the former Southampton player might be being used as a mouth piece by said club to deride a another club that they notoriously dislike, which also feeds the media narrative. Two stories exist about the bid, I'm saying we can't know either way which was right, and I'm challenging why it's OK to just throw one out and blindly swallow the other one seemingly without question.

I totally agree we ought to bring in players we really want. But that does not mean we should be so narrow minded. It should not be Witsel or no one if we desperately need a DM. Likewise for CF. We should have a list of targets and act on them. The only time I would say such an attitude, whereby we say "we'll either buy X player or no one" is where you are already catered for in that position and the X player would be an improvement on what you have. In our case, DM and CF are very thin looking. It's all good and well saying Dier has done well and N'Jie has played there in the past, but please just envision a scenario where Kane is injured and Dier drops in form in that position, both of which are a possibility in this long upcoming season. What do you do then? Play N'Jie every game up front? Or do you start trying to turn Chadli into a CF too? It's not Football Manager where playing Huddlestone at AMC one season got me 45 goals because he was strong and had a good shot.

How long should the list be? What are the criteria for the player we're looking for? How many actually fit? How many are within our reach in terms of fee? In terms of wage? How highly does the manager rate the players so many of us tend to underrate?

No one is saying that the situation is ideal, but I don't think it's as simple as calling the club negligent for the situation. It's just as likely that in the scenario you want to imagine that players would step up. Who before the season last year would have seen Mason coming through and having the impact he did when established internationals continued to fail? Or foresaw the season that Harry Kane would have?

To say the window wasn't as bad as people are making out, I can understand. To try and excuse Levy's handling of bringing in a forward and a defensive midfielder, cannot be justified no matter which angle you come at it from. It just can't.

I don't think there's enough evidence either way to really come down to heavy on either side. We bought five players, and missed out on two positions lots of us wanted us to fill. Why did we miss out? Speculation. That's all. I'd just rather support the team we do have than get all hot and bothered about not having the players I wanted.

 

[nicdic]

That went well @tttcowan

I agree, I wouldn't have sold Soldado til we had a replacement, but it could well have been that was around the time we were being given assurances on Berahino. When was it he was supposed to have been at the training ground for the medical?

 

[FrankSpencer]

I think it's a very well-written statement that addresses the main concerns of a great majority of supporters.

To those who think the window was good/acceptable, I say the following. We have addressed the defence, that is most certainly a plus. We have signed a good defender in Alderweireld and an excellent prospect in Wimmer. We've also bolstered the right back position with a player who in my opinion, will take over the position from Walker by the end of the season.

In the wide areas, we have added much needed pace. Son and N'Jie come in to add pace to what can only be described as a pathetic and lackluster lineup of Chadli, Dembele and Lamela.

Here's where it goes downhill.

We've added those players, who IMO have to start in those positions and in failing to sign a striker, expect them to fill in wherever necessary. So where Kane can't/won't start a game, we instantly lose one of those wide attackers from their position. Bear in mind that we also play 50-60 matches a season, and you can see how this is an issue.

I don't think there's anyone that isn't disappointed that we didn't sign a striker. It was a massive problem for us last year, with only Soldado available to come on/fill in for Kane. Now we've even lost him. We had one target it seems - Berahino. We were "in talks" with WBA for most of the window, what on earth we discussed for 2 months, I've no idea. We were getting seemingly erroneous ITK that the deal is done, yet we were bidding until the last hour for him, meaning the deal was not done. Why did those bids not go in last week? Or at the start of the window? All this to try and save £5m? It's not worth it, surely. It's been proven that it's not worth it.

That we had a maximum price we were willing to pay, I accept. I agree that prices are inflated. But he's WBA's player, they can ask for what they want. Pay up or shut up. We weren't willing to pay up, so we should have shut up earlier and gone after other targets. The way we handled this situation alone, warrants serious questions to be asked. It was diabolical.

Defensive midfield. We were light last year. We wanted Schneiderlin. We didn't manage to get him. We got through the season without one, but the need for one was evident. Summer comes, we sell Stambouli who played there and Capoue. Capoue was an outcast. Stambouli played many Cup and European fixtures and filled in there where necessary. Come the end of the window, we've got a young CB playing there, who may or may not be cut out for that position long term and nothing else. Not even Stambouli. To this end, we hear we made a bid for Wanyama that was lower than the price Southampton paid and Witsel tweeting that Zenit were unwilling to sell late in the window with no chance of a replacement being brought in. So again, in Witsel's case, we hear that we went in too late.

Personally, I'm sick and tired of this lastminute.com transfer policy. It leaves you open to being shafted and in consequence - ridicule. Not to mention a squad with apparent weaknesses.

The silly thing is, our window was poor because we failed to get 2 players in. If they were brought in, we'd be saying it was one of the best windows we could have hoped for. It's a funny one. But I think the manner in which we went about failing is the issue. It's the same old rubbish from Levy.

Supporters support. But we are not lambs. Anyone who says "support the club don't criticise" is completely wrong IMO. That notion is way too close to "God works in mysterious ways", where you're asked not to think but just move in a certain requested direction. Spurs fans pay premium bucks for mediocrity. The occasional high end performance, the occasional 4th finish. It cannot continue like that.

We're building a stadium I hear... And? Net spend in the black every year with TV income rising as well as ticket prices. A great deal with the NFL for the stadium. I think we can manage a second striker and a DM in the squad. We're not saying spend 100m, we're saying address the main issues.

What Levy seems to banking on is the supporters' backing, financial and moral. But you try filling a 61,000 seater with a team languishing in 8th-10th, or worse. I dare you Danny boy. I double dare you.

Superbly written.

 

[Metalhead]

I am reading what you're saying, I'm just trying to engage you and the general feeling that seems to be prevailing right now.

The problem with just saying we ought to fill the positions we need, is that it's looking at the situation from only our perspective. Clubs never want to sell their best players, and because of the position of our club we have a tough battle to sign players who are obviously a step up. When the clubs either don't want to sell or the player doesn't want to come what do we do? You keep talking about moving on to other targets, but it seems to me exactly like we've done that. Take the DM for example. We tried Schneiderlin, didn't happen. We tried Kramer and Bender, and it didn't happen. We tried Wanyama, it didn't happen. We tried Witsel, it didn't happen. Maybe our list should have been longer than four, but maybe the players who would have been five, six, or seven in the list actually weren't going to be significant enough of an improvement to warrant the chase. Perhaps, the manager was happier to stick than sign a Stambouli to just fill the space in the squad. Ideally we'd have signed the players we wanted, but it's more difficult than people seem to want to believe.


You're right, the flawed logic is to assume that the former Southampton player might be being used as a mouth piece by said club to deride a another club that they notoriously dislike, which also feeds the media narrative. Two stories exist about the bid, I'm saying we can't know either way which was right, and I'm challenging why it's OK to just throw one out and blindly swallow the other one seemingly without question.


How long should the list be? What are the criteria for the player we're looking for? How many actually fit? How many are within our reach in terms of fee? In terms of wage? How highly does the manager rate the players so many of us tend to underrate?

No one is saying that the situation is ideal, but I don't think it's as simple as calling the club negligent for the situation. It's just as likely that in the scenario you want to imagine that players would step up. Who before the season last year would have seen Mason coming through and having the impact he did when established internationals continued to fail? Or foresaw the season that Harry Kane would have?


I don't think there's enough evidence either way to really come down to heavy on either side. We bought five players, and missed out on two positions lots of us wanted us to fill. Why did we miss out? Speculation. That's all. I'd just rather support the team we do have than get all hot and bothered about not having the players I wanted.

The main issue is whether Poch got the players that he wanted. We're led to believe that he wanted Berahino and evidently Berahino was available for a price. The club did not apparently meet that price so we missed out. We now effectively have one striker. That doesn't seem good.

 

[nicdic]

The main issue is whether Poch got the players that he wanted. We're led to believe that he wanted Berahino and evidently Berahino was available for a price. The club did not apparently meet that price so we missed out. We now effectively have one striker. That doesn't seem good.

So Levy has to deliver exactly what Pochettino wants even if the selling club doesn't want to sell, or we deem the fee to be too much, or say in another example, the player doesn't want to come?

It's not just as simple as we wanted them, didn't get them, and so must be Levy's fault.

 

[Metalhead]

So Levy has to deliver exactly what Pochettino wants even if the selling club doesn't want to sell, or we deem the fee to be too much, or say in another example, the player doesn't want to come?

It's not just as simple as we wanted them, didn't get them, and so must be Levy's fault.

The club were willing to sell though. Well they were prepared to if their valuation had been met and I don't think that Poch would have been unreasonable to expect to bring one striker in when his job is on the line if results go badly. Again, we have effectively got one striker.

 

[mil1lion]

We did replace Soldado. We just didn't replace him with the 'type' of forward people wanted.

Soldado wanted to leave so we respected his wishes and because he isn't a key player for us we let him go. He was so poor for us (unfortunately) that we were right to sell him regardless of who came in. I do believe though that we kept Lamela as our insurance in case Berahino didn't sign. I think Son is going to be considered as the replacement for what it's worth. The problem people have is that he isn't considered as a centre forward who can lead the line, yet Soldado couldn't lead the line anyway so we're no worse off.

 

[nicdic]

The club were willing to sell though. Well they were prepared to if their valuation had been met and I don't think that Poch would have been unreasonable to expect to bring one striker in when his job is on the line if results go badly. Again, we have effectively got one striker.

To play @dimiSpur 's card though, Peace said they weren't going to sell.

Perhaps go and read the statement from Pochettino and Levy on the OS.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

WBA would have sold Berahino if we had given them adequate time to find a replacement and offered them a financial package that was acceptable. This seems pretty clear from the WBA chairman's staterments. I think in most cases a player will have a price, despite what the selling club says publicly. But it would not be sensible to sell one of your key player at the arse end of the transfer window without some kind of replacement.

Time to buy an adequate replacement? They signed 2 strikers this window and negotiations went on for months.

Now they don't have 23m, they don't have berahino, and they do have a striker that they spent 15m on.

 

[dimiSpur]

To play @dimiSpur 's card though, Peace said they weren't going to sell.

Perhaps go and read the statement from Pochettino and Levy on the OS.

He never said they wouldn't sell, he said he had a price tag that had to be met. Or is that something we don't know for sure either?

Pochettino's English dramatically improved for that statement didn't it?

 

[nicdic]

He never said they wouldn't sell, he said he had a price tag that had to be met. Or is that something we don't know for sure either?

Pochettino's English dramatically improved for that statement didn't it?

I'm pretty sure in each of his statements Peace said that Berahino wouldn't be leaving.

I don't doubt the Levy and Poch statement has spin. I've never argued otherwise. I'm just challenging the approach that swallows anything negative whole, and only assumes agenda when it's positive.

 

[ultimateloner]

I don't feel this statement is precise enough.

Given that it needs to make a strong point (that the fans aren't getting what we deserve despite the amount we spend) it needs alot more detail.

It is embarrassing because the argument is so weak. It literally takes no research/facts, just a general impression that 'we look light'.

 

[fortworthspur]

everybody including Levy and Poch knew we needed another striker and midfielder. they fucked up. people just would like an explanation of why they fucked up. I agree it wont change a thing, but there is nothing wrong with telling them "you fucked up".

 

[tttcowan]

That went well @tttcowan

I agree, I wouldn't have sold Soldado til we had a replacement, but it could well have been that was around the time we were being given assurances on Berahino. When was it he was supposed to have been at the training ground for the medical?

Yeah wow, clearly people are OK with having one visibly shattered striker just 4 games into the season. Well not OK with but would rather not have Soldado even for cup games/Europa league... Pretty mental if you ask me! Weird, its not like the fans get the soldado money is it? If it was an option id say get Keane on loan until Christmas even. That's how bad I think the position we've put ourselves in is.

 

[glacierSpurs]

The real reason for this kind of outburst from so many fans, and thus this letter from the trust, is that so many fans are grossly out of touch with reality. The money of Chelsea, City, United, and Liverpool has clouded our judgement. One CL venture a number of years back and the money others have spent has made some think we should just be able to do the same. We're clearly on another level to these teams in terms of money, and so to think that we'll be able to do the same is ridiculous. And for those who then will start shouting about Stoke, West Ham or anyone else, we're also in a completely different place to them. It's a lot easier to find players to improve a bottom 10 team, than a top 5 team. We have the biggest jump to make in the league.

there seems to be some kind of self-contradictory here.. so it seems we are the best of the rest, and presumably, probably factual, that we are way richer than those teams.. and yet you mentioned it was lot easier to find players to improve those teams than us? Are we not in a bigger financial power and more attractive option as a team to join for the players?

and if your logic that our improvement from majority of the players is not as significant as compared to improvement to those other teams because they are not as good as us to begin with, I think it is a dangerous delusion that I hope few or none of the management or coaching staffs in Spurs should have... we have the biggest jump to make in the league, yes.. but those pack behind us are only a step , if not inches, behind us... overtime, if we are still moving forward so slowly, their rate of improvement will overtake us.. and thus I see no wrong for some of us to think we should do the same as those in the top 4, because additionally we also have a 60+k seater stadium to fill in a few years time.. surely that is a top-4 aspiration..