THST Statement on the Transfer Window

[robin09]

You think that the most pressing needs were Striker and CM, but I think the defence and pace were. We sorted the defence out early (our most important business in my opinion), and OK we didn't get the pace in before the season, but in plenty of time. People tip their hat toward the signings that we made but still wanted two more, even though in another thread the very same people would still be questioning the sense in signing 7 players with the Bale money. Had we signed a CM and ST we'd have signed 7 players, as well as adding Alli, Pritchard, Carroll, Onomah, and Winks to the first team squad. Perhaps there might be some benefits to not signing all of these players.

The problem wasn't the number of players we signed. 7 is not an incorrect number of purchases. The problem is that too few of them worked out, because they weren't suited to the league or the club.

It does not mean we should look to arbitrarily sign less than 7 players in future windows. We should look to sign quality, and accept that law of averages will mean some of them won't work out well. But you can't avoid signing players because you're worried last time you signed 7 they mostly flopped. You look to learn from the mistakes.

The real reason for this kind of outburst from so many fans, and thus this letter from the trust, is that so many fans are grossly out of touch with reality. The money of Chelsea, City, United, and Liverpool has clouded our judgement. One CL venture a number of years back and the money others have spent has made some think we should just be able to do the same. We're clearly on another level to these teams in terms of money, and so to think that we'll be able to do the same is ridiculous. And for those who then will start shouting about Stoke, West Ham or anyone else, we're also in a completely different place to them. It's a lot easier to find players to improve a bottom 10 team, than a top 5 team. We have the biggest jump to make in the league.

You think that the guy you quoted doesn't know we're on another level to the top 5? Of course he does, he even said he 'doesn't expect us to spend £100m on players'. You're guilty of trying to make this black and white yourself.

You don't have to match the big clubs spend, we know that's impossible with ENIC. But it's not unfair to expect we spend £20m-£30m more than we recoup in a window when the revenues are at record levels, especially if it means the difference between signing the only striker Poch wanted, or not signing a striker at all.

I've always been a big defender of Levy. The feeling that many supporters have isn't a kneejerk to this one transfer window. It's built up from window after window, where we court players the manager really wants, and almost always end up not getting the deal done.

What is so frustrating is we're not talking about spending £50m on Sterling, we're talking about bidding £5m-£10m more to get a player that could really aid our success each summer. It's a false economy to save the money in transfer fees, if you then also lose finishing position prize money, or go out of cups early, or sell less merchandise around the world because we're not near the top.

5th is exceptional given our lack of spending. But ENIC cannot expect us to get there again, if they won't back the manager.

 

[crokey]

I don't think the original THST statement is "pathetic", but I otherwise agree with nicdic. We will be fine.

 

[whitesocks]

I think part of the problem is that we do not have a manager who can coherently explain what he is trying to achieve.
Bielsa, MP's mentor, would have sat down with the press and THST and argued them down one by one.
He wouldn't have let any of them out the door until they understood his approach and fully agreed with it!

MP prefers to do his talking on the pitch, which is all very well, except he is just as incoherent and we are winless.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

It's not stupid, it's just @nicdic having a different opinion to yourself.
Bit much mate tbh.

Agreed. Ludicrous should have been the word i used and apologize.




Sorry about that.

 

[mil1lion]

How many times do we feel like this at the end of the transfer window? We felt the same way last summer yet we finished 5th. How about we actually get behind the players we have rather than worry about what we're lacking? I genuinely think we're stronger now than last season. We should at least give the players more than 4 games before complaining. This type of letter could have waited until the end of the year at least and only if we're under-performing at that time. If we're struggling by then we should send a letter to encourage them to make improvements in the January window. It seems more of a 'heat of the moment' response after the window closed only yesterday.

People need to calm down, so much overreaction going on it's unreal. All this complaining is so pointless, the window is shut now and none of us know how well we will do.

 

[Supersi32]

I`m probably a weirdo but I can see the merits on the points that both camps (dimispur & nicdic) are making and whilst I`m not anti Levy I do feel its alright to criticise some of his dealings, I also believe lastminute.com buying is flawed.

 

[yido_number1]

What is so frustrating is we're not talking about spending £50m on Sterling, we're talking about bidding £5m-£10m more to get a player that could really aid our success each summer.

Seriously you are talking about spending £25-30m for a back up striker to play second fiddle to Harry Kane. The issue here is not the failure to close "that" deal but not having a back up plan of a loan or permanent player to do the same. We do have limitations as a club and £30m subs would appear to be the limit.

Seems people will moan when we sign players like Stambouli as a stop gap and moan when we don't sign a player for the same reason.

Hopefully Kane will stay fit till January and we can go about getting him some help.

 

[yido_number1]

How many times do we feel like this at the end of the transfer window? We felt the same way last summer yet we finished 5th. How about we actually get behind the players we have rather than worry about what we're lacking? I genuinely think we're stronger now than last season. We should at least give the players more than 4 games before complaining. This type of letter could have waited until the end of the year at least and only if we're under-performing at that time. If we're struggling by then we should send a letter to encourage them to make improvements in the January window. It seems more of a 'heat of the moment' response after the window closed only yesterday.

People need to calm down, so much overreaction going on it's unreal. All this complaining is so pointless, the window is shut now and none of us know how well we will do.

Great post and I share the same sentiment. It was great after about 55-60 minutes on Saturday when the crowd really got behind the team and the play definitely improved. Rebuilding the atmosphere at the lane is as important as rebuilding the squad.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

I genuinely think we're stronger now than last season.

We are not. For sure not in relative terms. We only have more players the head coach might want to use than what we had last season. Or at least I hope so, I haven't actually seen the proof for it.

 

[robin09]

Seriously you are talking about spending £25-30m for a back up striker to play second fiddle to Harry Kane. The issue here is not the failure to close "that" deal but not having a back up plan of a loan or permanent player to do the same. We do have limitations as a club and £30m subs would appear to be the limit.

Seems people will moan when we sign players like Stambouli as a stop gap and moan when we don't sign a player for the same reason.

Hopefully Kane will stay fit till January and we can go about getting him some help.

Well, reports would suggest we were happy to spend up to £20m on him. I'm only advocating that if we think he's the only striker we want, another £5m-£10m would have probably done it. Would have £5m-£10m broken us? I don't think so.

And he may not have been a backup striker. Maybe Kane gets injured, suspended, is tired, can't play 55 games a season.

My point isn't so much about berahino, as it is about us always bidding 80% of the asking price for the managers choice at the very end of each window, and time after time not getting the deal done.

It's understandably frustrating for the fans. Who pay more and more money and see the club spend less and less.

Despite this, I do hope the atmosphere in the stadium is positive. There's no point trying to signal frustration towards ENIC/Levy, as it will just come across as frustration against the team which will just make things worse.

I hope that Levy doesnt hang Poch out to dry if we finish 6-8th this season. Because I really don't think he's done enough to help him this summer.
We were so close to an excellent window, and we just blew it at the end. Hopefully, the youth can take some responsibility and we have another go in the Jan window.

 

[tototoner]

very diplomatic from THST

 

[nicdic]

You say we know nothing of what went on and that we have jumped to conclusions, before speculating over you're own conclusions. You may prefix them with "may have" but at the same time you defend these points vehemently for 4 pages.

On this transfer, in retrospect, the evidence shows our ITK's were way off the mark. That can happen. Peace stated from the start that £30m is what it would take. We bid less than that. It was rejected. Berahino put his transfer request in. We then bid more. In between all the above there were public statements from WBA that they had a price and that had to be met. The mistake you're making is you're assuming that the ITK is correct over the clear evidence and actual statements from the Clubs. Was Peace serious about only wanting £30m? We weren't to know then. But we sure as hell do know, having placed all our eggs in that one basket - of Peace folding.

As for "signing another Stambouli", no that's not what I said. I said why did we sell Stambouli when we brought no one in. I also said it was poor planning and execution in that any targets we did identify, we didn't seem to go after them strongly enough. That may not be the truth, but when Witsel says something along the lines of "it was too late for me to move unfortunately" and Le Tissier points out our bid for Wanyama was as pathetic as it was, then questions are asked. We are allowed to do that.

As for defence and pace, yes I agree. But no defence can be as good as it can be without protection. Hence the DM issue. As for pace, we've added it, but as soon as Kane is out and we shift NJie or Son up front, we'll still have Lamela and Chadli in the team. No point to having pace up front if we're creating the same congested area outside the opponents' boxes.

As for being out of touch with reality, no. I don't think wanting to sign a second striker and a DM where we're currently playing a centre half is out of touch with reality. I think you not accepting that mistakes have been made (again) is out of touch with reality. It's a support of Levy that rivals that of a Catholic for Jesus. Not saying it's wrong, just that it's blind. No one is saying put the club at risk by buying Ibrahimovich. Far from it. But we've spent nothing again in real terms when we needed to spend.

I see what we're doing at Spurs. We're building a young squad, with players that hopefully will develop by the time we're in our new stadium. But we're also a Club with high expectations, arguably due to our chairman, who sacks managers that finish 4th or 5th - for whatever reason (I'd like to add that I agreed with all sackings bar perhaps AVB, mainly due to who replaced him). So that adds an added burden to the development of these youngsters. We don't need any more weight on their shoulders, like having to learn new positions during the season (Dier, Son, N'Jie).

I think Levy needs to re-think his transfer policy. Try and get deals done quickly. If you can't, move on to the next one. I guarantee in the long run, that will benefit us.

Sorry @dimiSpur, I didn't preface my counter points with "may have happened" because I thought I'd made clear I was providing a counter argument, and showing that vastly differing opinions are very possible from the same limited information. It seems that many, including yourself, are willing to slowly wholly, the information that comes from outside of our club and has a negative twist on it. For example you've mentioned two separate instances but I'll add a third too:

1. Le Tissier's comments on the Wanyama bid. They may be true, but they might be wrong. We don't actually know. And while there is contrasting info that says we offered a decent fee plus Lamela, I'm happy to think we probably didn't just come in with a stupid low ball offer.

2. Peace's statements. A statement comes from our chairman, we expect there's a certain degree of spin in it, when it comes from another chairman, saying negative things about it, you assume it is 100% the truth, with no spin, and no agenda? Peace was making a point with his statements, it wasn't necessarily all true, it was most definitely not free of spin. Actual statements from clubs are not free from spin and posturing, to believe otherwise is incredibly naive in my opinion.

3. The suggestion that we made a derisory bid because it had a small upfront payment to be followed by instalments. That this is even a story that is having comments passed on it is ridiculous. Nearly all transfers are paid in instalments. Very few are paid upfront in one lump sum. To suggest that Levy is incompetent because he was trying to structure a deal over a number of years is just trying to feed on the discontent in the fanbase. (Again I stress, you didn't make this point before it's suggested I'm putting words in your mouth).

Adding to your comments on ITK, I'm not sure the ITK was necessarily wrong. We thought it was going to happen, Berahino's advisors thought it was going to happen, WBAs people thought it was going to happen, Pulis thought it was going to happen, Berahino thought it was going to happen. For whatever reason, Peace decided to stick his heels in. That doesn't mean the ITK was off the mark. I also don't think a figure has ever been definitely quoted anywhere, people have speculated, and suits the agenda that we were told and chose to never meet it, but that might not be the case.

My point about Stambouli is that it makes no sense for us to sign players that we don't want. Poch clearly didn't rate him, and wanted him out, so he went. He was clearly happier to go without than have him. It therefore carries that it makes sense to stick with what we have and try again for the CM we really want (and likewise the ST) rather than buying someone as a filler.

I wish people would drop the CB out of position at DM thing. Dier has been one of our better performers so far this season. He's playing a position he's played before. He can do it, and he's bloody good. Again, doesn't fit the agenda, but it's true. I agree I'd have loved to have signed a striker, but it hasn't happened. I don't think that's necessarily negligent, or a mistake.

I think people are out of touch with reality, when they think that we can just buy whoever we want, that people should just do what we want, and that we should just offer whatever is being asked.

I get your point about the change in transfer policy, but you're ignoring the early work of signing Trippier, Wimmer, and Alderweireld. And you're assuming that we're not doing that. We may have worked all the way through our list of players we wanted, and didn't want to get someone from not on that list.

 

[Maske2g]

Everybody almost unanimously wanted those three players out. They are out, and now some wishing we hadn't. Even though most wanted them nowhere near the team most of the time.

You are right...but they also wanted an alternate option. Which we don't have.

West Ham had gaping holes caused by sales and then injuries, they signed players. Their fans are applauding their chairman today not because of the quality of the signings, but because they plugged major holes in the squad. The very least they HAD to do.

Going into a season with 1 out and out centre forward is negligence. A listed blue chip chairman would be asked to resign on the spot for such piss poor performance.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

One of the issue I have with these transfer failures is how it affects our manager and stability. Let's say that our lack of DM and cover for Kane has a huge impact on the team, at what point does Levy do his normal sack the manager routine.

Then we get a new manager who wants a different set of plays to fit his style and we are back in transition for the hundredth time. This cycle just repeats itself.

As we have left Poch with holes in the squad and we have so many young players why not give him a pass this season. Get in the top 10 as a target and treat anything else as a bonus and let the squad develop.

 

[dimiSpur]

Sorry @dimiSpur, I didn't preface my counter points with "may have happened" because I thought I'd made clear I was providing a counter argument, and showing that vastly differing opinions are very possible from the same limited information. It seems that many, including yourself, are willing to slowly wholly, the information that comes from outside of our club and has a negative twist on it. For example you've mentioned two separate instances but I'll add a third too:

1. Le Tissier's comments on the Wanyama bid. They may be true, but they might be wrong. We don't actually know. And while there is contrasting info that says we offered a decent fee plus Lamela, I'm happy to think we probably didn't just come in with a stupid low ball offer.

2. Peace's statements. A statement comes from our chairman, we expect there's a certain degree of spin in it, when it comes from another chairman, saying negative things about it, you assume it is 100% the truth, with no spin, and no agenda? Peace was making a point with his statements, it wasn't necessarily all true, it was most definitely not free of spin. Actual statements from clubs are not free from spin and posturing, to believe otherwise is incredibly naive in my opinion.

3. The suggestion that we made a derisory bid because it had a small upfront payment to be followed by instalments. That this is even a story that is having comments passed on it is ridiculous. Nearly all transfers are paid in instalments. Very few are paid upfront in one lump sum. To suggest that Levy is incompetent because he was trying to structure a deal over a number of years is just trying to feed on the discontent in the fanbase. (Again I stress, you didn't make this point before it's suggested I'm putting words in your mouth).

Adding to your comments on ITK, I'm not sure the ITK was necessarily wrong. We thought it was going to happen, Berahino's advisors thought it was going to happen, WBAs people thought it was going to happen, Pulis thought it was going to happen, Berahino thought it was going to happen. For whatever reason, Peace decided to stick his heels in. That doesn't mean the ITK was off the mark. I also don't think a figure has ever been definitely quoted anywhere, people have speculated, and suits the agenda that we were told and chose to never meet it, but that might not be the case.

My point about Stambouli is that it makes no sense for us to sign players that we don't want. Poch clearly didn't rate him, and wanted him out, so he went. He was clearly happier to go without than have him. It therefore carries that it makes sense to stick with what we have and try again for the CM we really want (and likewise the ST) rather than buying someone as a filler.

I wish people would drop the CB out of position at DM thing. Dier has been one of our better performers so far this season. He's playing a position he's played before. He can do it, and he's bloody good. Again, doesn't fit the agenda, but it's true. I agree I'd have loved to have signed a striker, but it hasn't happened. I don't think that's necessarily negligent, or a mistake.

I think people are out of touch with reality, when they think that we can just buy whoever we want, that people should just do what we want, and that we should just offer whatever is being asked.

I get your point about the change in transfer policy, but you're ignoring the early work of signing Trippier, Wimmer, and Alderweireld. And you're assuming that we're not doing that. We may have worked all the way through our list of players we wanted, and didn't want to get someone from not on that list.

Dude, are you even reading what I'm saying? I never said we can buy whoever we want. I said we ought to fill the positions we need. You don't neglect signing a forward because we didn't get Berahino. You change your target. With that logic every club would have one target and one target only and failing to bring him in would spell no activity. It would also set a dangerous precedent whereby the selling Club recognises the strictly "him or no one" attitude and demand threefold the player's worth!!

As for the Le Tiss story, you seem quick to just say "oh but we know nothing" when a point is raised that shows your opinion is based on flawed logic. If we know nothing, then we might as well just have one thread for every topic with one post saying "oh I wonder what happened?" before being locked because anything else would be speculation.

I totally agree we ought to bring in players we really want. But that does not mean we should be so narrow minded. It should not be Witsel or no one if we desperately need a DM. Likewise for CF. We should have a list of targets and act on them. The only time I would say such an attitude, whereby we say "we'll either buy X player or no one" is where you are already catered for in that position and the X player would be an improvement on what you have. In our case, DM and CF are very thin looking. It's all good and well saying Dier has done well and N'Jie has played there in the past, but please just envision a scenario where Kane is injured and Dier drops in form in that position, both of which are a possibility in this long upcoming season. What do you do then? Play N'Jie every game up front? Or do you start trying to turn Chadli into a CF too? It's not Football Manager where playing Huddlestone at AMC one season got me 45 goals because he was strong and had a good shot.

To say the window wasn't as bad as people are making out, I can understand. To try and excuse Levy's handling of bringing in a forward and a defensive midfielder, cannot be justified no matter which angle you come at it from. It just can't.

 

[Dillspur]

Don't get me wrong I think levy has done a great job for us, but where is the money is going? The last 4-5 years we've had very little net spend, but we're continually told that we don't have to sell to buy and transfer fees are not a problem. It also seems our transfer fees are heavily loaded with incentives which none of the players are meeting so we're not even paying the full amount for them.

Someone said that we're just a cash cow for enic and I agree. all the improvements to the training ground, buying the land for the new stadium and building it have been funded by the club, not enic. Apart from initially buying of the club and the occasional interest free LOAN enic have put nothing into the club yet when they sell it (probably a year after the stadium is built) they are going to quadruple their investment.

 

[robin09]

From the ITK thread just now

Ali Z:

(On Levy) 'unbelievable but he told Poch, Berra was done'

(On the suggestion that Mitchell only identified Wanyama and Berahino) 'He identified a lot more than that but when your chairman says no or won't pay the price what can he do in addition Poch did not want all the players from abroad.'

Hertyid:
'Apparently we were so convinced we'd got Berahino we had shirts printed for him.'




Interesting stuff. You could type that bold part every transfer window and it would probably be relevant. THAT is why I've gone from being a Levy defender to Levy agnostic.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

From the ITK thread just now

Ali Z:

(On Levy) 'unbelievable but he told Poch, Berra was done'

(On the suggestion that Mitchell only identified Wanyama and Berahino) 'He identified a lot more than that but when your chairman says no or won't pay the price what can he do in addition Poch did not want all the players from abroad.'

Hertyid:
'Apparently we were so convinced we'd got Berahino we had shirts printed for him.'




Interesting stuff. You could type that bold part every transfer window and it would probably be relevant. THAT is why I've gone from being a Levy defender to Levy agnostic.

Holy crap obviously still speculation but it looks like both chairman screwed both their managers. Poch being left without a striker after being told he would get Berahino and Pulis being told Berahino would be sold and he could use the money for some late bids. Guess now we just find out what chairman lied, did Peace break his word not selling Berahino or did Levy not meet the price.

The relationship between Poch and Levy and Peace and Pulis, God knows where that is going. What a mess.

 

[yido_number1]

From the ITK thread just now

Ali Z:

(On Levy) 'unbelievable but he told Poch, Berra was done'

(On the suggestion that Mitchell only identified Wanyama and Berahino) 'He identified a lot more than that but when your chairman says no or won't pay the price what can he do in addition Poch did not want all the players from abroad.'

Hertyid:
'Apparently we were so convinced we'd got Berahino we had shirts printed for him.'




Interesting stuff. You could type that bold part every transfer window and it would probably be relevant. THAT is why I've gone from being a Levy defender to Levy agnostic.

I'm sorry but I fail to believe the Poch didnt want all the player from abroad BS.

He works with a scout and has done before in Mitchell. I bet if you looked at the players signed at Sthampton most of them were from abroad. Some people have an agenda and love to wheel it out at this time of year, EVERY YEAR!

 

[mil1lion]

We are not. For sure not in relative terms. We only have more players the head coach might want to use than what we had last season. Or at least I hope so, I haven't actually seen the proof for it.

Fair enough that we need to wait and see if that's the case. I just think looking at the players we have now vs last season we now have more quality in defence and attack. Midfield looks about the same in terms of quality.

Considering how little Kaboul, Capoue, Paulinho and Stambouli contributed last season I can't see how Wimmer, Alderweirald and Dele Alli can't be an improvement. Plus I'd rather see one of Winks or Veljkovic picked ahead of them as well. Then you look again at how little Soldado contributed and we've added Son and N'jie to the mix. They may not be like for like but they'll offer a damn site more than Soldado did. Add Trippier at right back so we don't have someone out of position there. Possibly Carroll & Pritchard if we keep them rather than loan them out.

We have a much deeper squad than people give credit for. Although I think the plan was always for Pochettino to trim the squad particularly with the players we left out in the cold. He seems to be looking for a smaller squad to work with and using players in more than 1 position. It may even be better for overall team bonding to have a close knit squat rather than have players come out of the cold for the odd game. We often struggle to carry our form over from League to Cup games as it is which I believe is due to so many changes and players who haven't played together much.

This is a young team and you have to also consider that 1 more season of experience will carry over to this season as well. What people don't seem to appreciate is just how many changes we've already made. Adding the 2 players everyone was crying out for only adds another 2 additions to the squad. That's a lot of changes to implement and have gel together this season. Keeping our first team together was the key to the summer, the signings will add new competition which wasn't really there last season.