Toby Alderweireld

[Zeb]

I think we need a leader. I really don't see Vertonghen as a leader, unfortunately.

Wasn't Jan captain of Ajax at one point?

 

[DaSpurs]

Wasn't Jan captain of Ajax at one point?

He was, but it was in a league in which he knows the language well. I think he can communicate English well enough, but he doesn't look comfortable barking out communication during the match. Is far too quiet for a CB in this league IMO, let alone a captain.

 

[225]

Wasn't Jan captain of Ajax at one point?

As above.

He was a captain in an inexperienced side for the most part. Kaboul is our captain, but not a very good one, so previous doesn't always mean suitability

 

[Bofbro]

Wasn't Jan captain of Ajax at one point?

Yep, and thrived, i think his form would pick up big time if we made him captain....he's the kind of player that needs to feel important or he goes into a shell, he's a strange one.

 

[TEESSIDE1]

Southampton's defenders benefit greatly from having an organized midfield shielding them. Look what happened to Lovren's play when he left.

Our team/squad has way more issues than positives. Other than Lloris and Kane, everyone else needs a kick up the backside. I agree re Southampton's midfield protecting the defence but the defenders must also have something about them considering they still picked up points when both Wanyama and Schneiderlin were out injured.

 

[mill]

Yep, and thrived, i think his form would pick up big time if we made him captain....he's the kind of player that needs to feel important or he goes into a shell, he's a strange one.

There was itk saying he made a stand against the '3 amigos ' before kane fell out with them, but no one else backed him, that would suggest leadership imo

 

[GMI]

He's suitable and obtainable, which is why it'd never happen

He's a few years younger than me, so I don't know him, but we were both born in Chester and he went to the same school my mum worked at for a while. I wasn't allowed to go to that school, it was a bit of a rough area by all accounts (or by comparison, anyway).

Are there rough areas in Chester?. I lived there for 20years and went to school there (Queens Park High). The roughest parts of Chester are better than most.

 

[MichaelPawson]

Jan seems like a smart, serious dude who would make a good captain if given the chance. Still wouldn't pick him over Hugo though.

 

[225]

Are there rough areas in Chester?. I lived there for 20years and went to school there (Queens Park High). The roughest parts of Chester are better than most.

Blacon and the Lache are pretty rough, but wasn't referring to Chester - Shawcross grew up in Buckley.

 

[JonnySpurs]

Jan seems like a smart, serious dude who would make a good captain if given the chance. Still wouldn't pick him over Hugo though.

I agree, although, maybe only ON the pitch

 

[225]

I agree, although, maybe only ON the pitch

View attachment 18188

Is it just me or is Hazard slowly turning into Dembele?

(looks, not on the pitch!)

 

[IGSpur]

There was itk saying he made a stand against the '3 amigos ' before kane fell out with them, but no one else backed him, that would suggest leadership imo

Or that he doesn't? But I see your point he isn't afraid to stand up to people.

Also I don't think Shawcross is our answer. Nothing against the lad but I like the idea that we should have an aggressive scary defender but not only is that usually hyped but sometimes it's just not effective. We had Dawson who was known for his heavy challenges, passion and barking orders yet we all agree he wasn't good enough. As an actual defender is Shawcross that much better than Daws?
Also before Fazio came in he was a captain and had this reputation of not being messed with and people posting videos of him punching Costa and now being are saying he isn't up for it. I think we just need to find a good defender if we are looking and tbh I like the sound of the Wimmer more. Sounds like he isn't a naturally talented players but has worked hard and grafted to his position. That kind of mentally is more leaderish and inspiring as it shows he has a good work ethic and would set an example.

Not too bothered about Alderwiereld as someone else mentioned he seems very samey. And he doesn't look outstanding or more mentally tougher than anyone else.

Strangley the toughest/aggressive, call it what you want, defender we may have is already in our ranks in CCV. I've seen him get in a few tussles already. When he played for the US u20s on some dodgy pitch against big boys he looked to enjoy it even more throwing himself around And battling with older players.

Also against US u18s when there was a scrap at the end of the match I remember him running from CB dropping one of the players then throwing another out the way like a ragged doll.

He also shouts and organises the defense and is quite formidable in the air despite his height. It may be too soon atm but he could be that imposing yet cultured player we have wanted

 

[225]

Or that he doesn't? But I see your point he isn't afraid to stand up to people.

Also I don't think Shawcross is our answer. Nothing against the lad but I like the idea that we should have an aggressive scary defender but not only is that usually hyped but sometimes it's just not effective. We had Dawson who was known for his heavy challenges, passion and barking orders yet we all agree he wasn't good enough. As an actual defender is Shawcross that much better than Daws?
Also before Fazio came in he was a captain and had this reputation of not being messed with and people posting videos of him punching Costa and now being are saying he isn't up for it. I think we just need to find a good defender if we are looking and tbh I like the sound of the Wimmer more. Sounds like he isn't a naturally talented players but has worked hard and grafted to his position. That kind of mentally is more leaderish and inspiring as it shows he has a good work ethic and would set an example.

Not too bothered about Alderwiereld as someone else mentioned he seems very samey. And he doesn't look outstanding or more mentally tougher than anyone else.

Strangley the toughest/aggressive, call it what you want, defender we may have is already in our ranks in CCV. I've seen him get in a few tussles already. When he played for the US u20s on some dodgy pitch against big boys he looked to enjoy it even more throwing himself around And battling with older players.

Also against US u18s when there was a scrap at the end of the match I remember him running from CB dropping one of the players then throwing another out the way like a ragged doll.

He also shouts and organises the defense and is quite formidable in the air despite his height. It may be too soon atm but he could be that imposing yet cultured player we have wanted

I think Daws came across as a man who you'd take to meet your nan - I don't really think he was ever a 'scary' defender.

 

[DaSpurs]

I think Daws came across as a man who you'd take to meet your nan - I don't really think he was ever a 'scary' defender.

Agreed, big difference between an aggressive but nice-looking defender and just an outright ****, because the latter actually gets in the head of the opposition, and that's the point being made here.

 

[IGSpur]

I think Daws came across as a man who you'd take to meet your nan - I don't really think he was ever a 'scary' defender.

Fair but not many teams have that type of defender anyway. I don't know everyone's CBs but I know the teams that have better defense record (most) don't.

Just looking at Chelsea Terry just seems like a laddy kind of guy wouldn't bring him to my family but we all know why, us being mix race he'd probably not wanna be there anyway. Cahill seems cool. Kompany isn't scary just big, Demichellis isn't, Mettesacker and Koscielny aren't scary or powerful or whatever. You could argue out of the top 7/8 teams only Skrtel seems like it and I think that is from more appearance alone. He also loves a hold in the box. I think just being good and keeping your head is more important. Ledley barely even got a yellow and played alongside Dawson they were top pairing. Even Dawson and Bassong kept a record number of clean sheets for us and Bassong wasn't in that mould. Concentration and determination a're top factors too

 

[DaSpurs]

Or that he doesn't? But I see your point he isn't afraid to stand up to people.

Also I don't think Shawcross is our answer. Nothing against the lad but I like the idea that we should have an aggressive scary defender but not only is that usually hyped but sometimes it's just not effective. We had Dawson who was known for his heavy challenges, passion and barking orders yet we all agree he wasn't good enough. As an actual defender is Shawcross that much better than Daws?
Also before Fazio came in he was a captain and had this reputation of not being messed with and people posting videos of him punching Costa and now being are saying he isn't up for it. I think we just need to find a good defender if we are looking and tbh I like the sound of the Wimmer more. Sounds like he isn't a naturally talented players but has worked hard and grafted to his position. That kind of mentally is more leaderish and inspiring as it shows he has a good work ethic and would set an example.

Not too bothered about Alderwiereld as someone else mentioned he seems very samey. And he doesn't look outstanding or more mentally tougher than anyone else.

Strangley the toughest/aggressive, call it what you want, defender we may have is already in our ranks in CCV. I've seen him get in a few tussles already. When he played for the US u20s on some dodgy pitch against big boys he looked to enjoy it even more throwing himself around And battling with older players.

Also against US u18s when there was a scrap at the end of the match I remember him running from CB dropping one of the players then throwing another out the way like a ragged doll.

He also shouts and organises the defense and is quite formidable in the air despite his height. It may be too soon atm but he could be that imposing yet cultured player we have wanted

It's a good post IG, and I like what CCV can offer for our future, but we need a captain and leader now. It isn't about outright quality so much (in the comparison of Daws v Shaws), but rather who can fortify our team's collective mentality and negatively affect the opposition's mentality ASAP.

I've banged on and on about our need for pace on here for over a year now, but I think we also are very much lacking a bit of nastiness. We need someone to keep our youngsters in line that can also give them a spine when shit hits the fan, and can also make the opposition dread playing us a bit, because I don't think anyone fears playing us whatsoever. Any team has been able to pick up points on us or come darn close, we don't strike fear of life and limb into anyone, and we still fall apart sometimes rather easily. IMO, we need an option who can help counter that immediately and not 3-4 years from now when the youth no longer are such and have possibly already hashed out a leader anyway but too little too late, and I think Shawcross would tick every one if those aforementioned requirements.

 

[DaSpurs]

Fair but not many teams have that type of defender anyway. I don't know everyone's CBs but I know the teams that have better defense record (most) don't.

Just looking at Chelsea Terry just seems like a laddy kind of guy wouldn't bring him to my family but we all know why, us being mix race he'd probably not wanna be there anyway. Cahill seems cool. Kompany isn't scary just big, Demichellis isn't, Mettesacker and Koscielny aren't scary or powerful or whatever. You could argue out of the top 7/8 teams only Skrtel seems like it and I think that is from more appearance alone. He also loves a hold in the box. I think just being good and keeping your head is more important. Ledley barely even got a yellow and played alongside Dawson they were top pairing. Even Dawson and Bassong kept a record number of clean sheets for us and Bassong wasn't in that mould. Concentration and determination a're top factors too

Terry very much puts fear of life and limb into people's heads. Between him, Cahill, Ivanovic, and Matic they very much have the needed aggression, ****iness, and will to go through a body to get the ball.

Kompany is scary enough IMO, and City can also compensate with outright quality to strike a fear factor. We don't induce fear with quality, physicality, or nastiness.

True about Arsenal though, I would literally walk into a defensive line meeting of theirs, declare their mothers all fat plodders, and then pinch their cheeks and make baby noises. But as Nzonzi said about them last season, everyone knows they're soft and easy to kick around a bit. Who do we have to keep Stoke from kicking our youngsters around a bit?

 

[225]

Fair but not many teams have that type of defender anyway. I don't know everyone's CBs but I know the teams that have better defense record (most) don't.

Just looking at Chelsea Terry just seems like a laddy kind of guy wouldn't bring him to my family but we all know why, us being mix race he'd probably not wanna be there anyway. Cahill seems cool. Kompany isn't scary just big, Demichellis isn't, Mettesacker and Koscielny aren't scary or powerful or whatever. You could argue out of the top 7/8 teams only Skrtel seems like it and I think that is from more appearance alone. He also loves a hold in the box. I think just being good and keeping your head is more important. Ledley barely even got a yellow and played alongside Dawson they were top pairing. Even Dawson and Bassong kept a record number of clean sheets for us and Bassong wasn't in that mould. Concentration and determination a're top factors too

I think what we're talking about is the thing that's missing from our team. Ledley may well have been a nice clean player, but we had other players who took on that 'mean' role at the time.

 

[IGSpur]

I think what we're talking about is the thing that's missing from our team. Ledley may well have been a nice clean player, but we had other players who took on that 'mean' role at the time.

I think Mason and Bentaleb are serving that role quite well at the moment. I've seen fans of other supporters mention how mason is a prick. bentaleb was just being moaned at the other day for putting his hand in someone's face and almost stamping on Monreal.

 

[IGSpur]

Terry very much puts fear of life and limb into people's heads. Between him, Cahill, Ivanovic, and Matic they very much have the needed aggression, ****iness, and will to go through a body to get the ball.

Kompany is scary enough IMO, and City can also compensate with outright quality to strike a fear factor. We don't induce fear with quality, physicality, or nastiness.

True about Arsenal though, I would literally walk into a defensive line meeting of theirs, declare their mothers all fat plodders, and then pinch their cheeks and make baby noises. But as Nzonzi said about them last season, everyone knows they're soft and easy to kick around a bit. Who do we have to keep Stoke from kicking our youngsters around a bit?

Regarding Terry and co. I think that comes down to opinion then. Like most players I think he'd Gove a good shout but I don't look at him and think he's scary. What he does and the rest of the team as you pointed out is get in people's faces as a collective cos they've been told to.

Keane is someone I wouldn't have messed with and there arent many of any like that around today. Even Kaboul can look quite imposing and someone you wouldn't wanna mess with, but like my original point being a **** and scary comes second to football ability. I reckon if we signed Shawcross the first few matches people would love it, and then slowly and slowly people would complain about his positioning or lack of composure or flying into challenges before wanting him to he sold and upgraded.