Top 4 or FA cup

[shelfsideyid]

Realist or Romantic???

The possible £20-£30 mill' income, the chance to play against Europes elite, and the added attraction a CL place brings to possible signings...................

Or a glorious day at Wembley, a Trophy and an Open Top bus up the High Street ??

 

[Goldman]

looking back, silverware is most important for a football club.

Not really.. im sure Pompey fans would rather they were an elite club in the prem with loads of money. Rather than the situation they are in, with the Fa cup win.

I know ive put that across terribly, but you understand my point surely. Top four postion would most likely lead to better opportunities at winning trophies. Everton excluded!

 

[mano-obe]

Part of creating history is winning cups, that's why people take the piss out of Chelsea's history.

I don't want to be telling my grandchildren (if I ever have any) that finishing bloody fourth is an achievement.

Football is about medals, not finishing second best, or in this case fourth best

 

[fortworthspur]

Champions League is the holy grail of European football, for both quality and money. No contest, IMO.

 

[kcmei]

lol why ask this question...top 4 is a much better achievement because it is much harder to do

 

[mano-obe]

If the FA cup is so much easier then why haven't we made a final in over 20 years?

Everyone thinks top 4 is a gateway to some promised land the way they are carrying on, it didn't seem to do much for Everton, Newcastle or Leeds United

I don't think Bill Nicholson would agree finishing fourth as an achievement, not even second best in the league

 

[Sundog]

Top 4

I'll agree its not an achievement, nor a gateway to the promised land. It is however, it seems, a requirement to be in the champions league to be even close to being in with a shout of signing some players, the very players that are of the quality to take you to the next level.

So, whilst the FA cup would be lovely, I am sure as we entered the latter stages the "random draw" would see us visiting Manure or Chelski, possibly 2-3 days before an important league game and thus would end our attempt.

Top 4, whilst not an achievement, would show progress and may even prove to be the stepping stone we need to actually make a sustained challange for the league title. Its would also mean one of the regular top 4 would have to make do without the CL money, and would therefore possibly find themselves struggling financially.

 

[kcmei]

portsmouth won the FA cup ffs

 

[SpurSince57]

And were only the third club outside the current Sky Four to do so in the last 20 years, which suggests there's a correlation.

 

[Raxscallion]

Everyone thinks top 4 is a gateway to some promised land the way they are carrying on, it didn't seem to do much for Everton, Newcastle or Leeds United

We're far better run than those three fiascos. There's no comparison.

 

[worcestersauce]

Well it looks like it's going to be both this year, a top 4 finish AND silverware...:up:

All Hail Houdini:clap:

Not really.. im sure Pompey fans would rather they were an elite club in the prem with loads of money. Rather than the situation they are in, with the Fa cup win.

I know i've put that across terribly, but you understand my point surely. Top four postion would most likely lead to better opportunities at winning trophies. Everton excluded!

Like Newcastle and Leeds who made top four are now in the lower leagues and have got bugger all to show for it and how many world class players went to Everton? sorry but Everton included.

lol why ask this question...top 4 is a much better achievement because it is much harder to do

Really? so how come we've come closer to the top four than the FA Cup since the prem started? I didn't notice Leeds or Newcastle or Everton winning it either.

Just to say even Portsmouth won it misses the point about just how great an achievement it was for them and it should not be belittled.


The fact that some people want to finish fourth more than win the FA Cup just about sums up what's gone with Football.

 

[AngerManagement]

If the FA cup is so much easier then why haven't we made a final in over 20 years?

Everyone thinks top 4 is a gateway to some promised land the way they are carrying on, it didn't seem to do much for Everton, Newcastle or Leeds United

I don't think Bill Nicholson would agree finishing fourth as an achievement, not even second best in the league

This has been addressed

While the top four is no guarenteed route to future success, which has been proved by the examples you mention (not least Leeds), it is the only way for a club in our postion to compete with the teams in the bracket above us.

Winning the FA cup would do nothing for the clubs long term future, it would provide a nice day out for the fans an add another piece of silverwear to our cabinet.

While winning the FA cup would be great, it is what it is, and now days it is not disimilar to winning the Carling cup (except atleast the big clubs don't disrespect it with youth teams). However it is at the stage where Man Utd actually asked to be excluded from it once and the last time Arsenal won it they thought it too insignificant to hold a parade in it's honour.

Your mention of what Bill Nicholas would think futher supports my earlier claim of perfering to win the FA cup being an old school mentailty born from football being a differnt game. We were a far differnt club back then and football was a completely differnt entity.

In todays game it is clear that breaking the top four is far more important to us as a club.

With crazy investment that the likes of Chelsea and Man City have benefited from in recent times the only way stand any chance of replacing the current status quo in the top four (or extending it to a top5 or 6) is to start by getting ourselves Champions League football...competing against the biggest clubs in Europe and being able to sign the type of players who can help us challange for and win silverwear on a regular basis.

Winning the FA cup would only serve to perpetuate the postion we have found ourselves in in recent times, also runs with ambissions beyond our station. A Carling cup final here and there and dreams of FA cup finals (which would basical rely on the bigger clubs i.e. those who actually have CL football slipping up)

I want us to be one of the bigger clubs, not the best of the rest or the also runs dreaming of bigger things and banging on about past glories (which I might add most of us never even saw) and the only route to becoming a big club (as in top PL challanging club) is to start by breaking the top four and building from there, winning the FA cup does not provide a platform on which to build.

 

[Raxscallion]

The fact that some people want to finish fourth more than win the FA Cup just about sums up what's gone with Football.

I wish people would stop with this angle.

It's nothing to do with football 'losing its soul', or 'businessman wanker mentality' or any of the other shite that's been posted. It's to do with long-term success and consistent silverware as opposed to a one-off day of glory. I'm not content for Spurs to be 'Cup' club that languishes midtable in the league. I want to be up there pushing the Man United and Chelsea's for league titles, CL success, and domestic cups. A top 4 finish has the potential to do more to bring that dream closer than an FA cup win.

 

[spur_souljah]

To get into the top 4 you have to prove yourself over 38 games, the FA cup as important as it is can be achieved by good luck, as its only a handful of games and getting a generous draw and a bit of good fortune like portsmouth did takes the shine of it a bit imo.
So if i had to choose one i would go along with the top 4..

 

[AngerManagement]

And were only the third club outside the current Sky Four to do so in the last 20 years, which suggests there's a correlation.

Excatly

It stands to reason that becoming a top four club would increase our chances of winning things like the FA cup in the future.

Whilst winning the FA cup would make little to no differnce regarding our ability to obtain 4th spot (or higher).

The choice to me is obvious for a club in our postion, Top Four over FA cup, I actually can not understand anyone choosing the reverse.

Obviously we'd all love both, but as I have previously stated this is a hyperthetical question as to which you would prefer if you were forced to choose ONE OVER THE OTHER.

 

[bubble07]

TOP 4 - Shows how good w are over a consistent period and will e able to attract better players to take the club forward

 

[scat1620]

If the FA cup is so much easier then why haven't we made a final in over 20 years?

Everyone thinks top 4 is a gateway to some promised land the way they are carrying on, it didn't seem to do much for Everton, Newcastle or Leeds United

I don't think Bill Nicholson would agree finishing fourth as an achievement, not even second best in the league

So do you think that we have any chance of winning the league again without playing regularly in the CL for a few seasons beforehand? Because I don't. And I would much prefer to see us win the league title once than the FA Cup ten years in a row.

It's not that people would be looking back with pride in years to come on a 4th place finish, it's that getting that 4th place finish would be the first in what I believe to be an absolutely necessary step to win the biggest prize of all (being league champions of England), one that trumps even the glory of the FA Cup.

 

[scat1620]

The fact that some people want to finish fourth more than win the FA Cup just about sums up what's gone with Football.

But do you not agree with my argument that this debate is not purely about a 1 year-only perspective of FA Cup vs 4th Place in isolation? The reason so many people desperately want us to finish in a CL spot, even if it came at the expense of a chance of winning the FA Cup, is that without being regular CL participants, we'll never have a realistic shot at winning the league title. Sure, one 4th place finish by itself guarantees you nothing, but it's the first step on the long road to the big prize, and a step that if you don't take it then you have no chance at all of ever winning the league, IMO.

 

[3Dnata]

The question I would ask is do you think it is acceptable to play a weakened team in the FA cup in an attempt to get a better league position?
I don't think it matters so much tomorrow because it's only Peterborough we're playing and because of the Christmas schedule but I can't see the need for it for future matches surely our players should be able to cope with both?

 

[scat1620]

The question I would ask is do you think it is acceptable to play a weakened team in the FA cup in an attempt to get a better league position?
I don't think it matters so much tomorrow because it's only Peterborough we're playing and because of the Christmas schedule but I can't see the need for it for future matches surely our players should be able to cope with both?

Depends on the balance of probabilities at the time of each match, for me. If, say, we had a very tough FA Cup tie away from home directly before a crunch league game that would have a big say in whether we finished Top 4 or not, then I'd be in favour of resting our strongest players in the Cup game to keep them fresh and give us our best chance of winning the league game.

Likewise, if we had a winnable-but-tough Cup game ahead of a suppsedly banker home league game like, say, Portsmouth at home then I'd like to see our strongest side play the Cup game, and if any changes for rests were required to be made then I'd be ok with them being made for the league game. It's something that I'd have to judge knowing the exact specifics of who we were playing in each game and how we were already doing in the league; it's not really possible to give a proper answer for a generic Cup/league first/second team situation, IMO. That's what we pay Harry for, to get the right balance in team selection at the right times in the season.

But in terms of outcomes (regardless of *how* they happen and the team selection mechanics involved), a CL finish in the league trumps FA Cup glory easily for me.