Transition Myth

[mattyspurs]

It is, I agree. Teams that come and park the bus and compact the space make this more difficult. However we play the same way no matter what, like you say - with the high line. It makes it harder to work with the space. I just think we need to be more flexible, we should be able to inject some more tempo and intensity into our play, if that requires dropping off a little more to draw opponents out so be it. I think our style makes it so difficult at times for ourselves, the high line etc, and I'm not sure we possess enough of the right sort of player to pick opponents pockets in little space week in week out. We would need more Silva's, Nasri's, Cazorla's, Ozil's, of this world to do that.

Now I know they're the cream of that sort of type of player, but they can play in the tight areas because they have the ability to see the play ahead of them, how they want it to develop etc and they can lay it off first time - which is crucial in this day and age. A quick first time pass is more often than not the killer ball in tight congested areas. What do our players do? They hang on to it, they don't know what to do with it most of time or don't simply have that level of vision and brain. Its keep ball without a killer ball. The movement isn't good enough you would also argue which restricts options for the type of passing described.

For me we don't pass the ball quick enough. I know Arsenal are a level ahead of the way they pass and move but do you think teams go to the Emirates to attack? No, they don't. They do the same as what they do when they come here, they sit deep and try to hit Arsenal on the counter.

Arsenal have the answers because of the way and pace in which they move the football. We don't. We saw a glimpse of it against Norwich - the Eriksen affect. We need this guy to be doing that week in week out to have any chance. Extremely perplexing why he was so good that day and we've seen nothing like that from him since.

Tom Carroll could potentially solve all of the problems you have spoken about there Pinkster

 

[chrissivad]

The high line is a bit of a myth, we're generally no higher than most teams would be in a lot of situations.

In the areas we play we do play higher up the pitch than the likes of City, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal the last time i looked.

Posted images of the pitch being split up and the % of play in each.

 

[Legend10]

In the areas we play we do play higher up the pitch than the likes of City, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal the last time i looked.

Posted images of the pitch being split up and the % of play in each.

I'm just talking about our defensive starting position, it isn't abnormally high, not to me anyway.

 

[chrissivad]

I'm just talking about our defensive starting position, it isn't abnormally high, not to me anyway.

agree, but the gap between them and the midfield can be huge at times. Gives who ever we play a huge area that players can run into and behind our midfield.

 

[shelfboy68]

agree, but the gap between them and the midfield can be huge at times. Gives who ever we play a huge area that players can run into and behind our midfield.

Which is what happened against the hammers, sherrif away also Newcastle and city on sunday.

 

[StartingPrice]

@ Beats: to your list for us I would like to add that Kaboul has never played for AVB before this season and is still being eased in and Sandro missed half a season, and is likewise still being eased in; on top of which Danny Rose and Townsend are virtually new to AVB as well.
The latter two should also help to highlight the important fact that we have a young squad, and there is a big difference between the Goons getting Ozil (who is, basically, confirmed top level) and Flamini who knows the league and knows the Goons, and us getting in Ericksen and Lamela.

I understand what you are saying, and it is true - most of the top tier are coping with transition. But we are doing so more than most, and if you want to make some comparisons, Citeh may have just humiliated us at home, but they couldn't win a raffle away and even after bitch slapping us are only two points ahead - so they may be coping with a little less transition, and a hell of a lot more money, a bit better than us - but not that much better. Likewise, United - they have some transition, but again not as much as us IMHO and are only one point ahead of us. Maureen is hardly a stranger to SB, but things are not wholly rosy there, either - and they, too, are only 4 points ahead of us.

The big comparative that puts us (and particularly AVB) in poor light is with Liverpool. The Goons have stability of manager and, I believe, it shows. But Liverpool have had pretty high levels of change, too, though, again, not as much as us. What they have that we don't, however, is they kept their match-winner, in Suarez (for the time being), whereas we sold ours, in Bale.

Like everyone else, I'm disappointed, Sunday hurt like hell. But we do have 16 players, by my reckoning, who have either been at the club just over a year or less, or have very little experience of playing under AVB, many of them are very young (comparatively) and we have lost our match-winner. I think our transition is just a little more transitional than most - and, still, we are only 2 points off the top four.

I did read your post, and I know that you aren't saying we should get rid of AVB, but, for some reason* I just don't seem to think that our star is quite as dim as some, while I do believe our transitional is pretty transtional. And please, good folk of SC, don't take this as an opportunity to scream at me that we can't score (I noticed) and that our football hasn't been wonderfully exciting (I noticed - bit like a Redknapp game against lower-half oppos at the Lane).

*Maybe it is that I can see a parallel between the way AVB has handled Lamela and the way he handled Lloris, and I do think that Danny Rose being injured with Vertonghen playing out of position to cover, as well as the extreme nature of our transition and the relative youth of our squad, all add up to suggest that what we are seeing now isn't all there is, and we will see a steady improvement if the board keeps faith with AVB.

 

[Legend10]

I've just said this in the Tromso match thread but it probably should be in here;

If we are taking time to gel so much why have we got the entire first team group split in 2 this week when we should be on the training pitch working it out?

Half have been left at home and the other half have trooped off to the bloody Artic for a completely meaningless game!

How the fuck is that going to help us gel?

Complete and utter fuckin madness, words fail me!

 

[parklane1]

I've just said this in the Tromso match thread but it probably should be in here;

If we are taking time to gel so much why have we got the entire first team group split in 2 this week when we should be on the training pitch working it out?

Half have been left at home and the other half have trooped off to the bloody Artic for a completely meaningless game!

How the fuck is that going to help us gel?

Complete and utter fuckin madness, words fail me!

Well a lot of fans have been giving him stick for dragging all his players out to far flung destnations, he can not win.

 

[Legend10]

Well a lot of fans have been giving him stick for dragging all his players out to far flung destnations, he can not win.

Of course he can win, leave the entire first team group apart from Friedel at home, even if he wants to send Naughton and Defoe fine but why the rest of them?

It doesn't matter a jot if we lose 10-0 tomorrow, we've qualified already!

Complete madness!

Not only the players, he should be here as well working with them!

 

[StartingPrice]

I've just said this in the Tromso match thread but it probably should be in here;

If we are taking time to gel so much why have we got the entire first team group split in 2 this week when we should be on the training pitch working it out?

Half have been left at home and the other half have trooped off to the bloody Artic for a completely meaningless game!

How the fuck is that going to help us gel?

Complete and utter fuckin madness, words fail me!

I don't know if this was in reply to my post. If not, please excuse:

But I'm not making the case that AVB is managing the gelling process perfectly*, I am making the case that this really is more transitional for us than the OP seems to be allowing.

* In saying this, I haven't actually seen who is staying and who is off to Tromso...but maybe he has particular reasons for leaving one set at home. And none of us really know the exact intricacies of his job - as said, he has 16 players who have only just over a year, or less (in many cases, much less) of working under him. We don't know how anyone else would handle this task, or how hard that task is.

 

[Mr Pink]

Well a lot of fans have been giving him stick for dragging all his players out to far flung destnations, he can not win.

Eh?

He should be keeping the core group at home. Its AVB's choice to do this and I doubt he gives two hoots what the fans preferences is anyway.

Personally I think he's only making the rod bigger for himself, and there will be a massacre in here if he starts Defoe on Sunday and we lose.

 

[parklane1]

Of course he can win, leave the entire first team group apart from Friedel at home, even if he wants to send Naughton and Defoe fine but why the rest of them?

It doesn't matter a jot if we lose 10-0 tomorrow, we've qualified already!

Complete madness!

Not only the players, he should be here as well working with them!

For this game i would agree but sending out weak sides in the earlier games is/was one of my biggest concerns with Redknapp, i pay a lot of money to go to away games in Europe and i do not want to see a team of kids.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

It doesn't matter a jot if we lose 10-0 tomorrow, we've qualified already!

Hand on heart L10, tell me that you seriously think if we lost this game there wouldn't be carnage on SC. Let alone by 10 goals! The knives are out and the fella peddling the sharpening wheel has just been replaced by Chris Hoy. It might not matter from a EL qualification point of view but AVB needs a positive result otherwise the press will really be going into overdrive. Not to mention SC (the least of his considerations).

 

[Legend10]

Hand on heart L10, tell me that you seriously think if we lost this game there wouldn't be carnage on SC. Let alone by 10 goals! The knives are out and the fella peddling the sharpening wheel has just been replaced by Chris Hoy. It might not matter from a EL qualification point of view but AVB needs a positive result otherwise the press will really be going into overdrive. Not to mention SC (the least of his considerations).

I'm sorry I just don't believe that, if he'd put out a complete under 21 team tomorrow I think only an idiot or people with a mission against him would complain!

A bit of pre game PR, 'we're not worried about the result and we think it's the perfect game to blood our under 21's, meanwhile we've left the first team group at home to prepare for Sunday'.

Who on earth would complain about that?

But imagine the uproar if we lose Sunday and he complains about fatigue or an injury picked up tomorrow, then he will be slaughtered!

I feel for him I really do but I think this is madness.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

only an idiot or people with a mission against him would complain!

How do you want me to phrase this? Erm.........

 

[Spurger King]

Hand on heart L10, tell me that you seriously think if we lost this game there wouldn't be carnage on SC. Let alone by 10 goals! The knives are out and the fella peddling the sharpening wheel has just been replaced by Chris Hoy. It might not matter from a EL qualification point of view but AVB needs a positive result otherwise the press will really be going into overdrive. Not to mention SC (the least of his considerations).

AVB's quote about "needing a response" in this meaningless game was disappointing to hear, and sounded like he's completely misunderstood the priorities of the fans. The majority want a response in the league. Trying to prove anything in this game will only hinder our chances against United, so again I think AVB is getting it wrong.

I'm also of the view that a defeat would make little impact on supporters if we fielded reserves.

 

[Legend10]

How do you want me to phrase this? Erm.........

But right minded people would just ignore that!

What if he plays half of the first team tomorrow and we lose, the knives will be out more so than if it was the kids!

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

But right minded people would just ignore that!

Again.......I'm not sure how to put this...........

 

[parklane1]

AVB's quote about "needing a response" in this meaningless game was disappointing to hear, and sounded like he's completely misunderstood the priorities of the fans. The majority want a response in the league. Trying to prove anything in this game will only hinder our chances against United, so again I think AVB is getting it wrong.
I'm also of the view that a defeat would make little impact on supporters if we fielded reserves.
.

I never took you for being naive so i can only think you are joking about that.

 

[Spurger King]

I never took you for being naive so i can only think you are joking about that.

I'll try and reserve my judgement until after the game tomorrow. I guess I'm still haunted by memories of Ramos saving King for Europa League games at the expense of Prem performances.