UEFA Cup and Spurs

[Caco]

I think the Op has valid points.

What is the point in trying to get European quallification if you are not trying to win it or at least use it to bed young players and those on the margin. The early exit from the Carling Cup has left us now with just the League and Fa cup to keep a huge squad happy and competitive. People seem to forget we don't have a reserve side now.

There is another issue here and that is us the fans who spend huge sums to follow our team home away and in Europe. We pay the wages of this huge squad and are currently being mugged by the club if they play teams that are basically reserve team standard, but still paying first team prices for tickets. For those pleased we are out and we haven't won anything for years, but happy to qualify for CL what is the point? Any money for the club is not going in your pocket in fact the reverse, how many of us were able to get tickets for CL games?

As a fan I want to win silver ware, i understand the longer term picture issue, but for us older fans Glory does not mean finishing second, third or fourth it means winning.

I wouldn't consider myself too old but this is my feeling on the matter too. I genuinely believe that Harry expected to coast through this group and use a stronger team for the next round but his plan has back-fired.

People give out about some football fans jumping on the bandwagon when a team wins trophies but this is the way of the world. What people fail to realise is that this argument is a double edged sword. Yes you need revenue to build a squad and and pay players, the more revenue the better players you attract. However, if you don't win anything you lose your future fan base which is a far greater loss. Winning the Europa League is likely to open a club up to new fans, which in turn leads to additional revenue. Winning the FA Cup would not be as ground breaking an achievement. The club needs fan based revenue more than it needs potential CL revenue.

 

[dontcallme]

I'd love to see us win a trophy again. However, long-term plans have to come into our selctions.

Getting CL football is so good for our club that sadly 4th becomes more important than winning the Europa League. We have also invested a lot of money into our youth team and at some point the better ones will need a chance to play for us.

This season they fell short in the CC and the EL. It was under trying circumstances as the team lineup was never going to be consistent and PAOK and Rubin are better than many give them credit for.

HR made a mistake by not rotating properly last season. This season he has and as a result our league form is very strong.

Disappointed at being as good as out of the EL but I don't blame anyone for that.

 

[Tottenham_OZpur]

Some good points from both sides on this, but thinking about it, I still am more pissed off than I am happy about going out so early.

I remember a few years ago before we became a better team, bagging out other 'big 4' teams fans who treated all comps but the CL very poorly, saying you should be trying to win all the comps you are in, putting trophies in the cabinet, the glory that comes with it etc and now after one qualification in the CL, it seems quite a lot of Spurs fans are behaving the same poor way, I am sure some of them also had a crack at other teams fans over this, how quickly things change.

While qualification for the CL is very very important, putting all our eggs in the one basket every season means we will never add a trophy to our cabinet, the price is too high to pay and if we fail to qualify, then the season is an automatic failure, if you are prepared to ruin your teams chances in every other comp, you must justify that by then qualifying, no if's or but's.

We will be just like the Arse, all mugs, no cups !!!

While I agree with some points made by the other side of the debate as I have said, Uefa cup winner should get a CL place, no CL drop outs in the Uefa cup for example, it's still a comp we should try to win.

It's just the sad state football has become, where finishing 4th and getting the trophy that comes with that, is more important than winning an actual comp.

The CL should be for the league winners only, will solve all this disrespect towards every other comp.

Personally, I think we should have put our strongest team away to Ruben and really tried to win that game, Harry has got many things right this season, Parker/Friedel signings etc, but he got that wrong.

We had already rested quite a few players in the earlier games and a win in that game would have meant we were all but qualified, allowing us to then rest players for the last two games, just taking one game seriously wasn't too much to ask on the players.

I don't think Bill would agree with some of the attitudes going around.

"It's magnificent to be in Europe, and this club - a club like Tottenham Hotspur - if we're not in Europe.... we're nothing. we're nothing."

 

[Real_madyidd]

The op has a charmed life. I have more pressing things to concern me and I will not be getting angry about spurs.

 

[kaz Hirai]

Are you suggesting that players will leave a Champions League team because they aren't winning the Carling Cup?

Eek

they'll certainly leave if we arent winning anything. Otherwise arsenal would still have clichy, nasri and fabregas

 

[Real_madyidd]

That's about money dude!

 

[Krafty]

I think we did the right thing. We wouldnt be 9 wins from 10 in the league otherwise, and we did have 7 points from the first 3 games in the Europa League. If it weren't for individual errors from players like Bassong and Corluka, we would have already qualified.

I'm glad some of the kids have got games, although I'm disappointed the likes of Townsend and Frederiks didnt play in their proper positions. But its all experience and should help them progress.

And as others have said, you get a pittance from winning the Europa League, CL qualification is far, far more important for the club.

 

[TheGreenLily]

The op has a charmed life. I have more pressing things to concern me and I will not be getting angry about spurs.

I wouldn't say I had a charmed life, but I am charming.....

If you you are blind and deaf :lol:

What can I say, I love my Spurs, and I get sad when we lose. The day I stopped getting miffed and upset, is the day I stop being a Spurs supporter.

 

[Luka Van der Bale]

Exactly, we can play in CL for 15 years in a row but if we can't win even the "Micky mouse" cup for some 6-7 years, the players will start leaving the club.

Let's not walk before we can run :up:

 

[BorisTM]

Let's not walk before we can run :up:

I was referring to Arsenal's current situation.

 

[vegassd]

Do you not remember the drenching Harry got when we made the CL last year and the massive party the players were having? The fact of the modern game is that qualifying for the CL is almost like winning a cup anyway!

It's far more likely that the players in our team now (never mind anyone else) will leave us if we don't qualify for the CL. We have some great talent who will be snapped up if we go for a second year without it in my opinion.

It's all well and good thinking about us after 15 years of CL football, but we need to get year 1 (or rather 2) of that run going before we can get to 15!!! And sending our first team all around Europe on Thursday nights for the rest of the season is not gonna get that accomplished.

 

[dontcallme]

they'll certainly leave if we arent winning anything. Otherwise arsenal would still have clichy, nasri and fabregas

I highly doubt that. Clichy and Nasri were offered so much money at Man City that few footballers in the world would turn it down. Fabregas always wanted to go back to Barca at some point.

 

[blobster]

I think the emphasis with the anti Europa sentiment has been heavily on CL qualification, which I totally agree with but for me it's not just about getting into that competition on a long term basis and having a good go at it. As much as I'd love to see us winning it, I'd actually see it more as a way to build experience, attract players and bring in in extra money for what I would really like to see us do... mount a serious yearly challenge and win the Premier League.

 

[AngerManagement]

Exactly, it is non-argument for me, three days's is three day's what ever way you look at it.

I don't think we was over-confident, I think Harry made his feelings about the competition quite clear at the end of last season.

You two might not understand why it is a factor but you only need to study the facts and see the effect these games have on the PL form of the clubs involved to see that it very clearly is a detrimental factor (regardless of whether or not you think it is an issue)

 

[TheGreenLily]

You two might not understand why it is a factor but you only need to study the facts and see the effect these games have on the PL form of the clubs involved to see that it very clearly is a detrimental factor (regardless of whether or not you think it is an issue)

I honestly can not see the difference in the amount of time between playing Wed - Sat and Thu - Sun. The players are getting the same amount of rest time.

 

[AngerManagement]

I honestly can not see the difference in the amount of time between playing Wed - Sat and Thu - Sun. The players are getting the same amount of rest time.

look at the results from teams that play on a thursday, it clearly has an impact

 

[dontcallme]

look at the results from teams that play on a thursday, it clearly has an impact

Any reason for the impact though? Logically it shouldn't make a difference as it is still a 3 day gap but statistically it does.

 

[Spurs1960]

The only reason we are out is Bassong who has been a liability in most games because he simply has not been interested or even tried.

 

[AngerManagement]

Any reason for the impact though? Logically it shouldn't make a difference as it is still a 3 day gap but statistically it does.

I think more often than not teams who play in the Uefa are not used to or not equip for the demands of playing in a European competition.

Clubs like the traditional top four have players experienced in the demands of playing midweek in europe and not taking their eye off the ball when the weekend league matches come around.

I don't personally feel it has a lot to do with rest time, 90mins of action for players in the 20s (generally) all of which are super fit are more than capable of playing 2-3 times in a week I am sure (to their top levels)....although of course it can accumulate over time.

I think we saw this ourselves last season with our CL campaign

I think it was noticable that the year we made the CL we didn't have a Uefa cup campaign to deal with.

I think the last time before that we were actually in a race for fourth was the year we had no european football and went out of both cups in the first round (even though we came 5th again one year we made a late surge for that rather than failing to come fourth)

I think we still have a young squad, a squad not experienced mentally in the demands and the highs and lows of performing week in week out in the league (if we wish to be a top team) AND having to face the demands of a European campign (which involves a lot of travelling and perhaps having to play different styles of football etc)

I think we were right to not play our full strength team this year in the Europa, the truth is the squad players SHOULD have been good enough to get through that group anyway. It wasn't to be, they let us down somewhat but it was also good experience for them and a good opportunity for us to assess some of our squad players and youngsters and see who is and isn't likely to be up to the task of making it with us long term.

The only thing that went wrong is we just fell short in the group stages, I don't think we should have played full strength as I suspect had we done so we would not have the great league position we do now....its just that our squad and younger players probably should have given a slightly better account of themselves over all

 

[TheGreenLily]

look at the results from teams that play on a thursday, it clearly has an impact

That maybe so, but I don't buy the tiredness argument, it just feels like an excuse to me. What is the size of the squads of the teams involved? looking at the teams that are involved this year, the majority have smaller squads than us with a lot less depth in quality throughout. I think that is more of an over-riding factor than playing wed-sat over thu-sun.

Spurs on the other hand have a squad that is big enough and has depth to deal with both the EUFA and league this season without a problem. The only player I would certainly ring fence is Ade, we lose him and i think we would be in all sorts of problems.