V Reading MOTM ratings/poll thingy

[Spurs_Bear]

I find it odd (or maybe I don't) how Gallas got about 6 pages of criticism and a couple of threads for not clearing a ball quite far enough, and the term "schoolboy error" was being shouted from the SC rooftops, yet barely a mention is made of the moment when Dawson was caught, utterly befuddled, with his pants down and arm in the air, whilst there fella walked past him clean through on goal.

It was the worst blunder I've seen by any of our defenders this season. Even worse the Walker tripping the ball to Mata.

Stop it you dirtbag.

 

[Chezaspur]

Sandro was outstanding again but voted for Lennon, pressure was on him to put in a shift with Bale out and he excelled.

 

[Peters]

I find it odd (or maybe I don't) how Gallas got about 6 pages of criticism and a couple of threads for not clearing a ball quite far enough, and the term "schoolboy error" was being shouted from the SC rooftops, yet barely a mention is made of the moment when Dawson was caught, utterly befuddled, with his pants down and arm in the air, whilst there fella walked past him clean through on goal.

It was the worst blunder I've seen by any of our defenders this season. Even worse the Walker tripping the ball to Mata.

BC, you really don't like Dawson! Played a captain's part in scoring the equaliser and we won the match ...and you nitpick about an error which did not effect the result.

Relevant statistics - Dawson started 6 PL games, won 5 drawn 1 = 16 points - 2.67 points per game, equates to 101 points for the season. Goals F 13, A 4.

Dawson is not first choice and has not completed more than 2 matches consecutively, so the stats are all the more remarkable that he was hampered by lack of full match fitness in all 6 matches.

If he had not been injured at Fulham perhaps he would have kept his place against Everton and we would have avoided the last minute collapse!

 

[ultimateloner]

I use to think that Lennon should be sold for the right money because he hasnt improved under us.
However I'm now starting to change. If you look at games (goals+assists)/games played Lennon gets 0.4 (3+5)/21. this compares to 0.34, 0.15 and 0.54 in the previous seasons.
So what we are getting this season is actually a boost in productivity back to his 09/10 season, which is comparable to Bale (has 0.54 so far). Its more accurate to say he's a worse player under HR and now getting back to what he was before. I am personally surprised by these numbers. Although this doesn't change my view that we should sell out now if we can because he still hasn't improved...

 

[alfie103]

I find it odd (or maybe I don't) how Gallas got about 6 pages of criticism and a couple of threads for not clearing a ball quite far enough, and the term "schoolboy error" was being shouted from the SC rooftops, yet barely a mention is made of the moment when Dawson was caught, utterly befuddled, with his pants down and arm in the air, whilst there fella walked past him clean through on goal.

It was the worst blunder I've seen by any of our defenders this season. Even worse the Walker tripping the ball to Mata.

I generally respect your opinion a lot BC but that is just insane. It was a mistake from him but you could argue that Vertonghen didn't cover himself in glory when he got barged over by Pogrebnyak.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I generally respect your opinion a lot BC but that is just insane. It was a mistake from him but you could argue that Vertonghen didn't cover himself in glory when he got barged over by Pogrebnyak.

I agree Vertonghen makes mistakes, I've said the same the last couple of games he's played I think. But it is one thing getting barged over in a challenge, it is a very different thing to be caught stood with your arm in the air whilst their player walks in on goal. That is about as stupid as it gets. Play to the whistle is one of the very first things you're taught when you're a kid isn't it ?

My point was more about the selective bias applied. When Gallas only managed to get 8 yards on a header instead of 10 there was pages of "burn him at the stake".

 

[davidmatzdorf]

I used to think that Lennon should be sold for the right money because he hasnt improved under us.
However I'm now starting to change. If you look at games (goals+assists)/games played Lennon gets 0.4 (3+5)/21. this compares to 0.34, 0.15 and 0.54 in the previous seasons.
So what we are getting this season is actually a boost in productivity back to his 09/10 season, which is comparable to Bale (has 0.54 so far). Its more accurate to say he's a worse player under HR and now getting back to what he was before. I am personally surprised by these numbers.

I still reckon the main factor in Lennon's changing form is his fitness, not managers or formations or anything else. When he's 100% pain-free, as he was in 09/10 and is now, we get this level of play from him. When he has long-term nagging injuries (that groin thing he had dragged on for about 18 months, on and off), he can't react instantly and that added split-second basically neuters him as an attacking force, because his game depends so much on his amazing acceleration over the first 2-3 metres.

Even when the chronic groin or hamstring pains go away for a week or two, he's still expecting it to hurt and that also slows down his reactions. It takes a few weeks or months to go by with him feeling fully fit before he can let it rip again.

 

[ultimateloner]

I still reckon the main factor in Lennon's changing form is his fitness, not managers or formations or anything else. When he's 100% pain-free, as he was in 09/10 and is now, we get this level of play from him. When he has long-term nagging injuries (that groin thing he had dragged on for about 18 months, on and off), he can't react instantly and that added split-second basically neuters him as an attacking force, because his game depends so much on his amazing acceleration over the first 2-3 metres.

Even when the chronic groin or hamstring pains go away for a week or two, he's still expecting it to hurt and that also slows down his reactions. It takes a few weeks or months to go by with him feeling fully fit before he can let it rip again.

i didnt know he was in pain. but im surprised he got cleared to play if its bad enought to more than halve his delivery.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I still reckon the main factor in Lennon's changing form is his fitness, not managers or formations or anything else. When he's 100% pain-free, as he was in 09/10 and is now, we get this level of play from him. When he has long-term nagging injuries (that groin thing he had dragged on for about 18 months, on and off), he can't react instantly and that added split-second basically neuters him as an attacking force, because his game depends so much on his amazing acceleration over the first 2-3 metres.

Even when the chronic groin or hamstring pains go away for a week or two, he's still expecting it to hurt and that also slows down his reactions. It takes a few weeks or months to go by with him feeling fully fit before he can let it rip again.

DM, there is no way Lennon hasn't had some instruction. His defensive work rate has gone up as well, and even on a good day previously, he rarely (if ever) saw the ball 70 times and made 45 passes.

The clincher for me is Defoe. Defoe would average about 6 passes away from home and about 11 at home. The last 4/5 games he's averaging about 20+, home or away. Defoe is dropping deep, and drifting wide occasionally too.

Both clearly look as if they have been worked on to me.

 

[Syn_13]

DM, there is no way Lennon hasn't had some instruction. His defensive work rate has gone up as well, and even on a good day previously, he rarely (if ever) saw the ball 70 times and made 45 passes.

The clincher for me is Defoe. Defoe would average about 6 passes away from home and about 11 at home. The last 4/5 games he's averaging about 20+, home or away. Defoe is dropping deep, and drifting wide occasionally too.

Both clearly look as if they have been worked on to me.

I think he deserves credit with the way he's adapted to this system. Years ago I remember people always saying how he was the perfect "small man" in the whole big/small striker combo. When we brought in AVB and he started playing 1 up front in the pre-season and at the beginning of the season people were ripping apart Defoe saying that he could never function into this role. He may not be unbelievably amazing there but he's definately proved he can play as a lone striker through his increased involvement in team play as you've pointed out and the fact that he's in goal scoring form.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Lennon's always been a good, responsible defensive winger, but this season he's become an amazing one. He's stopped, delayed and disrupted countless opposition attacks in multiple matches.

I certainly agree that the signs of coaching are visible in Lennon's (and Defoe's) improved play this season, but this is related to the areas where they were not previously exceptional. They've become better-balanced, more versatile players, who do more things to a good standard and are thus more useful in the team. Lennon's crossing (which has never been as bad as some have insisted) has also become more reliable and effective and we know this is the product of intensive coaching, because one of the coaches told a journalist the the other day.

But the main reason why Lennon's ability to do what he is primarily there for - attacking up the right, setting up chances and threatening the goal - has fluctuated over the years is related to his injury history. He doesn't need coaching to do that stuff. He just needs to be confident that his body will do what he wants.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think he deserves credit with the way he's adapted to this system. Years ago I remember people always saying how he was the perfect "small man" in the whole big/small striker combo. When we brought in AVB and he started playing 1 up front in the pre-season and at the beginning of the season people were ripping apart Defoe saying that he could never function into this role. He may not be unbelievably amazing there but he's definately proved he can play as a lone striker through his increased involvement in team play as you've pointed out and the fact that he's in goal scoring form.

I wouldn't go that far, to be honest, but he has upped his work rate by a factor of about 100% to at least barely acceptable level.

 

[CJMurray]

DM, there is no way Lennon hasn't had some instruction. His defensive work rate has gone up as well, and even on a good day previously, he rarely (if ever) saw the ball 70 times and made 45 passes.

The clincher for me is Defoe. Defoe would average about 6 passes away from home and about 11 at home. The last 4/5 games he's averaging about 20+, home or away. Defoe is dropping deep, and drifting wide occasionally too.

Both clearly look as if they have been worked on to me.

Althought I agree with you, I think that him touching the ball 70 times was mostly due to Bale not playing. On a tight and congested pitch he was the only real wide outlet, whereas normally its Bale and Lennon.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I agree Vertonghen makes mistakes, I've said the same the last couple of games he's played I think. But it is one thing getting barged over in a challenge, it is a very different thing to be caught stood with your arm in the air whilst their player walks in on goal. That is about as stupid as it gets. Play to the whistle is one of the very first things you're taught when you're a kid isn't it ?

My point was more about the selective bias applied. When Gallas only managed to get 8 yards on a header instead of 10 there was pages of "burn him at the stake".

I have been looking at this particular passage of play just now and I have made a few observations.

1. Pogrebnyak is in an offside position.
2. I believe Le Fondre's pass is misplaced.
3. As Dawson raises his arm, he also breaks into a sprint. He does not stand there scratching his balls. However, he seems to be unaware of the run of Kebe.
4. Walker reacts to the danger and makes a covering run.

Because Daws did not stand there with his arm in the air, I think we can say that he played to the whistle. Should he be aware of Kebe's run? I suppose he should.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I have been looking at this particular passage of play just now and I have made a few observations.

1. Pogrebnyak is in an offside position.
2. I believe Le Fondre's pass is misplaced.
3. As Dawson raises his arm, he also breaks into a sprint. He does not stand there scratching his balls. However, he seems to be unaware of the run of Kebe.
4. Walker reacts to the danger and makes a covering run.

Because Daws did not stand there with his arm in the air, I think we can say that he played to the whistle. Should he be aware of Kebe's run? I suppose he should.

Can I hire you next time Gallas's header falls a yard short ?

You suppose he should ? I'm watching it now and it is a shocking piece of defending whichever way you want to look at it. He doesn't stand rooted to the spot but he clearly doesn't read the danger and in the time it took for him to appeal for offside, Kebe has turned a three yard deficit into two yard advantage, Dawson then decides to run the opposite side of him, losing more ground and despite Walker being further away than Dawson initially he does very well to get to him. Despite this, if Kebe was a better footballer he would never have allowed a challenge at all but got his shot off and we might not have won a game we thoroughly dominated.

There was an almost identical lapse in concentration by Dawson against Panathanaikos (or was it Maribor) away when he did exactly the same but without his arm up, the player ran past him on a diagonal through ball, and that time it cost us a win.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Can I hire you next time Gallas's header falls a yard short ?

You suppose he should ? I'm watching it now and it is a shocking piece of defending whichever way you want to look at it. He doesn't stand rooted to the spot but he clearly doesn't read the danger and in the time it took for him to appeal for offside, Kebe has turned a three yard deficit into two yard advantage, Dawson then decides to run the opposite side of him, losing more ground and despite Walker being further away than Dawson initially he does very well to get to him. Despite this, if Kebe was a better footballer he would never have allowed a challenge at all but got his shot off and we might not have won a game we thoroughly dominated.

There was an almost identical lapse in concentration by Dawson against Panathanaikos (or was it Maribor) away when he did exactly the same but without his arm up, the player ran past him on a diagonal through ball, and that time it cost us a win.

It's not that Gallas's clearance was short. The direction of his clearance was more relevant, in my opinon.

A lot of players don't have wing mirrors. In my opinion, Daws' mistake is a lack of awareness. After that, I think he is simply beaten for pace. Walker is lightning quick and he's actually awake for this one so he's able to get back to have a nibble at Kebe. At no point does Dawson stand there with his arm in the air and I am not sure he even knows about Kebe's run until he is beyond him.

I certainly don't agree that this is the most stupid piece of defending I've seen from one of our own this season and I say that as someone who doesn't rate Daws. It would be hard to beat a number of Walker's mistakes. Take your pick.

I actually noticed something very bizarre tonight when I was looking at the match highlights. There is a passage of play where Pogrebynyak comes out on top in a tussle with Vertonghen. Vertonghen falls on his arse, gets up, runs after him and then, with Pogrebynyak bearing down on goal, Super Jan looks over his shoulder to see if the ref has blown for a foul.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It's right up there. I think you like him really, you're always sticking up for him.

 

[EnfieldYiddo]

Love Lennon this season - My MOTM. Although I know inevitably to progress we either need to have a miracle a la his shooting or replace him IF we are going to move to 4-3-3.

Although what I love about him aside from his work rate is he seems to really buzz off the crowd and get lifted; he mentions that a lot in interviews and tweets.