VDV is great but...

[jimtheyid]

I dont get some of you guys. We are clearly creating the same amount of chances as we did before.

4-4-2, 4-5-1 - I dont think the first formation would have created us that many more chances yesterday. We just need people to actually get the ball in the net.

Agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Misfit]

I don't think VdV will be with us this time next year - and I don't think we'll suffer too much from his departure.

I'm not convinced by his value to the team

lolwut?

Forgetting about the fact that our main problem, all season long, has been our strikers being as useful as tits on a bull. What does that even mean? Not convinced by his value to the team?

I think you're confusing him with Paul Konchesky and this isn't a Liverpool forum.

Apart from the team creating plenty of chances, and dominating many games this season, his value is playing a part in that and being our top scorer to boot.

Still confused?

Generally speaking, not directed at you, shape of the team etc is just irrelevant bollox. We could play 4-3-3 and if the strikers, take your pick which one, tend to shit themselves when presented with a very good chance in front of goal more often than not, then the problem isn't the fact that the team is playing 3 up front. It's that the strikers are fucking rhubarb. I don't know how else to put it.

 

[double0]

Van De Vaart started with adrenaline running through his veins as that burst wained you can clearly see his not 100% fit, his also picking up little niggles during games. Without doubt his class fully fit world class...I'd like to see more in support of the striker during home games dropping off into the Teddy Sheringham range, not as far back has he did against wet spam.

 

[Mr Pink]

The strikers havn't been performing in the League this season, end of.

 

[stevenqoz]

True Defoe was awful on Saturday but I feel that we had a few other problems as well. VDV is a free spirit and if you play him the rest of the side has to be more structured in its play......to me this can limit the impact of Modric. It will also take us a couple of games to fully trust the capabilities of Sandro who will be immense. Bale was underdone on Saturday with BAE reluctant to go outside of him in case he couldn't recover.Add Corlukas hesitency on the ball and we invariably had one touch or pass too many.Probably Harry's biggest problem is convincing VDV that he is only a 70 minute player in the EPL

 

[agrdavidsfan]

Personally I think we tell VDV he's now a striker and we are playing 4-4-2 end of

 

[deselina]

For instance?

Man U? Chelsea? Real? Barcelona? Inter?

Personally, I rate Modric and Bale higher than VDV.

VDV had a great start to his Real career as well, scored a hat-trick in one of his first outings for Madrid and then went a bit flat. I hope he doesn't follow a pattern here.

Great player on his day though, could make the difference against Real. Let's hope so.

LOL at the edit afterwards, you forgot he joined you lot from Madrid didn't you?

 

[Kendall]

Personally I think we tell VDV he's now a striker and we are playing 4-4-2 end of

On what grounds do you think this? because VDV is always dropping deep. No way has he ever looked like he's playing as a centre forward.

 

[Bobbins]

LOL at the edit afterwards, you forgot he joined you lot from Madrid didn't you?

You lot?

Oh yeah I forgot, you're only here to wind people up and tell Spurs fans their various opinions are wrong.

Unless it's Gibbs.

 

[NEVILLEB]

HATE MAIL

Tottenham 0 West Ham 0: So just what IS the problem with Rafael Van der Vaart?
By LAURA WILLIAMSON

Heralded as the signing of the summer after his £8million deadline day move from Real Madrid, Rafael van der Vaart has been finding life tough of late.
Trudging off with 20 minutes to go after after a frustrating afternoon in the 0-0 draw with West Ham, the Tottenham No 11 ignored his manager and disappeared down the tunnel for the second match in a row rather than watch the remainder of the game.
It did not go down well with Harry Redknapp and sums up his recent struggles. ‘I don’t like that and I’ll be talking to him about it,’ said the Spurs boss.

After such a promising start, Van der Vaart’s form has cooled. He has played a full 90 minutes for Tottenham only eight times in 26 appearances. A hamstring injury in late November, a calf problem in February and numerous tweaks and strains mean the 28-year-old is a perpetual doubtful starter.

You wonder how long Redknapp will persist with the 4-5-1 formation that is built around the Dutchman, playing in the middle behind a lone striker.
There is pressure on Van der Vaart to deliver again, particularly as two of Spurs’ three strikers — Jermain Defoe, Peter Crouch and Roman Pavlyuchenko — are left to smoulder on the bench.

Jermain Defoe took almost a year to move from 97 to 99 Premier League goals, but he was so confident of reaching his hundred on Saturday he wore a special vest under his shirt with the aim of unveiling it to celebrate the landmark. Pity West Ham had other ideas.
Against West Ham, it was Luka Modric who fulfilled the playmaker role, probing, twisting, turning and creating chance after chance.
Van der Vaart was forced to come deep — sometimes to make Scott Parker choose whether to track him or Modric and sometimes just to receive the ball.
Front man Defoe was isolated, swamped by a sea of claret and blue shirts. Van der Vaart’s influence also wore off as the match progressed.
An 18th-minute, left-foot shot whistled past the left-hand post and a free-kick found the target just before half-time, but he looked off the pace before he was substituted.
When the Tottenham boss discussed what his side need to challenge for the title, it was noticeable that it was ‘a couple of Luka Modrics’ on his wish-list, not another Van der Vaart.

Redknapp’s side have dropped 15 of a possible 30 points in Barclays Premier League matches following European games. For all the adventure and entertainment they have brought this season, Spurs are fifth in the table with only nine games to go.

Arranging a trip to the Bernabeu helps numb the nagging pain, but Tottenham fans at White Hart Lane on Saturday were starting to wonder: ‘What if?’

Who will still be here next season if it’s Europa League and not Champions League teams who come calling? Redknapp, however, believes Spurs are closer than ever to challenging not only for European football, but for the Premier League title.
‘There is nothing between the top five any more,’ he said. ‘I think we’re closer and the players believe it, too.
‘Winning the championship is the aim for me. Whether other people believe it I don’t know. They might think I’m mad, but I think it is possible.
‘We’re almost handing the title to Manchester United this year. This is as poor as they have played in years and they keep stumbling along.
‘If I do win one it will be a bit of a miracle, won’t it? I think if I did then I’d probably retire.’

 

[EastLondonYid]

What was really worrying for me as i watched the game, was Harry just sitting there watching VDV playing in the 'wrong hole' ...he was playing inbetween the back 4 and and luka at times,totally ineffective there and leaving JD totally isloated, i was crying out for Pav, yes even i was calling for pav!
It was amazing that it took Harry so long to make the change that was so fucking obvious, maybe jamie was too busy to text him..lol.

 

[SpurSince57]

I dont get some of you guys. We are clearly creating the same amount of chances as we did before.

4-4-2, 4-5-1 - I dont think the first formation would have created us that many more chances yesterday. We just need people to actually get the ball in the net.

I pointed out on another thread, only Chelsea and Arsenal have had more shots on goal than us this season. It's not creating chances that's the problem.

 

[nicdic]

On what grounds do you think this? because VDV is always dropping deep. No way has he ever looked like he's playing as a centre forward.

Dude he said "end of", what are you doing replying? It's finished :lol:

 

[nicdic]

Also I think with Sandro we play more of a 4-1-4-1. Sandro sits and sheilds and lets Modric get involved higher up.

 

[Azrael]

VDV is not the problem. To suggest he is, is, quite frankly, laiughable. Fact is that earlier this season he almost carried us. You can't expect a player to do that, no matter how good he is.

As has been suggested above we have created plenty of chances, its the finishing that is dire and the problem there lies with players who were having a half decent season last year but have done jack shit this time around.

 

[StartingPrice]

We are creating plenty of chances, and yet Spurs fans (like jilted lovers) are obsessed with the idea that we need a Berb-esque striker. We don't, we need a Clive Allen-esque striker.

 

[WhiteStripe]

We need a Ruud Van Nistlerooy type striker. We need a striker who can score from 2 yards, not 20.

 

[$hoguN]

VDV is not the problem. To suggest he is, is, quite frankly, laiughable. Fact is that earlier this season he almost carried us. You can't expect a player to do that, no matter how good he is.

As has been suggested above we have created plenty of chances, its the finishing that is dire and the problem there lies with players who were having a half decent season last year but have done jack shit this time around.

Exactly, i'm not someone who normally bangs on about things like this but the coaching staff made a few big tactical errors on the weekend which it was clear to see. Firstly with Bridge doing a number on Lennon, Hutton could have been introduced much earlier (maybe at halftime) as he made Bridge's job 100 times harder as he was willing to run beyond Lennon.

On the otherside of the pitch O'Neil was getting back and helping West Ham double up on Bale, so the coaching staff could have taken BAE off (who was not being tested at all really) and shifted Bale to LB and either shifted Modric/VDV out wide on the left or even used Kranjcar at LM as they would cut inside meaning that West Ham could not double up on Bale.

Thirdly, it was an absolute joke that VDV was taken off for Pav when Defoe did not look like he was going to score in a month of Sundays. VDV and Modric were giving us alot of invention from the CM and they would have provided Pav with more oppourtuities to score than Defoe.

We can all keep saying that we need a new striker, but Defoe got oppourtunities on the weekend yet did not make the most of them so should have paid the price by being subbed, VDV should not always be the one who comes off.

 

[jondesouza]

I'm in the two up top camp. I'll try to outline why.

I recognise that we are making a number of chances. The stat in itself isn't particularly helpful though as there's no qualitative measure alongside it. In other words, we may be creating lots of difficult to convert chances rather than a few clear cut ones. I think this is certainly a trend in our play this season. (Granted this wasn't the case against West Ham).

There's a key question - why aren't our strikers scoring more goals? A lot of the answers offered to this seem to be "Because they're shit". I don't buy that. They are largely good players but seem to be misfiring. Some of the reason for that, I believe, is down to how we line up at the moment and the fact that (especially recently) our front man is becoming isolated. This is damaging the quality of chances that we make.

Why do I think that our current formation contributes to this? When playing our formation with a 'support striker' 'in the hole' (i.e. the Sheringham role) there's a danger that the striker can become isolated by the support player dropping too deep (for whatever reason - usually to see more of the ball). This is what Van Der Vaart is currently doing and what Sheringham did in our colours far too often. There's then little support in and around the box for the main striker which in turn means that fewer defenders are being drawn out of position, it's less likely that killer through balls can be played and that there are fewer players who can attack a cross into the box. None of these things mean that chances won't be created - just that the chances will be more difficult to convert.

Secondly, as many people have stated, having one up top relies on having a particular sort of striker. That's not necessarily one type of striker (Clive Allen and Didier Drogba are two good examples of players that have been excellent in that role and are very different) - it's a player that will feed off those behind them. I feel that the strikers that we have at the moment aren't the right sort to gel with the type of midfield and support striker that we currently employ. Again, doesn't mean that the strikers are necessarily shit - it just means that the way we're set up isn't maximising the team's overall strengths (even if it does suit the strengths of some of our more technically able players).

How to fix it? A more traditional 4-4-2 would do the job. As would having a player with more positional conscientiousness - one that would stay in front of the midfield four rather than drop back to in front of the back four. As it stands I think the easiest fix would be to go 4-4-2. Others may disagree.

What I hope people can see is that this argument relies on shades of grey - it's definitely not black and white. If we went to a 4-4-2 we'd sacrifice certain positive things. I just think the benefits would outweigh the negatives.

 

[felmani26]

I'm in the two up top camp. I'll try to outline why.

I recognise that we are making a number of chances. The stat in itself isn't particularly helpful though as there's no qualitative measure alongside it. In other words, we may be creating lots of difficult to convert chances rather than a few clear cut ones. I think this is certainly a trend in our play this season. (Granted this wasn't the case against West Ham).

There's a key question - why aren't our strikers scoring more goals? A lot of the answers offered to this seem to be "Because they're shit". I don't buy that. They are largely good players but seem to be misfiring. Some of the reason for that, I believe, is down to how we line up at the moment and the fact that (especially recently) our front man is becoming isolated. This is damaging the quality of chances that we make.

Why do I think that our current formation contributes to this? When playing our formation with a 'support striker' 'in the hole' (i.e. the Sheringham role) there's a danger that the striker can become isolated by the support player dropping too deep (for whatever reason - usually to see more of the ball). This is what Van Der Vaart is currently doing and what Sheringham did in our colours far too often. There's then little support in and around the box for the main striker which in turn means that fewer defenders are being drawn out of position, it's less likely that killer through balls can be played and that there are fewer players who can attack a cross into the box. None of these things mean that chances won't be created - just that the chances will be more difficult to convert.

Secondly, as many people have stated, having one up top relies on having a particular sort of striker. That's not necessarily one type of striker (Clive Allen and Didier Drogba are two good examples of players that have been excellent in that role and are very different) - it's a player that will feed off those behind them. I feel that the strikers that we have at the moment aren't the right sort to gel with the type of midfield and support striker that we currently employ. Again, doesn't mean that the strikers are necessarily shit - it just means that the way we're set up isn't maximising the team's overall strengths (even if it does suit the strengths of some of our more technically able players).

How to fix it? A more traditional 4-4-2 would do the job. As would having a player with more positional conscientiousness - one that would stay in front of the midfield four rather than drop back to in front of the back four. As it stands I think the easiest fix would be to go 4-4-2. Others may disagree.

What I hope people can see is that this argument relies on shades of grey - it's definitely not black and white. If we went to a 4-4-2 we'd sacrifice certain positive things. I just think the benefits would outweigh the negatives.

I wholeheartedly agree, I'm firmly in the two-up-top camp and this season as only reinforced that viewpoint.