Vincent Janssen

[TheHood]

Giroud has played over 200 games for Arsenal, he's been first choice for much of that time.
Benteke was simply out of favour and not a 'back up'
Defoe well, the vast difference in experience between him and Jansen doesn't need explaining.

None of them are or were in their first season in a new country/league and both have much experience of playing in England/EPL, you're comparing Jansen to these three. Jesus christ.

Your expectations from Jansen and totally unrealistic if you're using the above as any sort of yardstick. Of course he'll compare unfavourably.

The others have overall pretty similar stats to Jansen.

Iheanacho 29 apps 7 goals
Origi 43 apps 11 goals
Jansen 35 apps 6 goals

But you know all this already. You know what you're doing.

The poster asked which back up striker in the league had that record with the assertion that there wasn't any, hence the names.The whole first season argument is entirely different one all together.

Again this really comes down to expectations. From a 17 million signing I expect more than 1 outfield Pl goal and more than 1 outfield goal in the cups. My expectation from a big money signing is 10-12 outfield goals so he has fallen way short hence the comments. That isn't acceptable to me and I firmly believe it won't be for the club which is why as I stated earlier that I expect him to be gone come the seasons start.
I also fully expect the player to think that was not an acceptable season.

If some wish to believe otherwise then that is perfectly fine but it does beg the question what expectations did they have for the player for this season and what expectations do they have for him for the next and why they believe he can meet this.

Trust me I am not a toll, I'm actually starting to think (and not by you) that I'm getting trolled by some in these discussions.

 

[TheHood]

Quite right. They would say 'unsubstantiated' rather than 'insubstantited'.

FML

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

From a 17 million signing I expect more

That's your own fault, not Janssen's.
From a player under 23 and for 17M, Janssen's first season was exactly what I expected.

 

[SpursFan2013]

Yup. 17m was not even 'big' money when we signed luka and sold Carrick. It is not exactly spare change but you should lower expectations regarding the transfer fee. You must consider the wages in any deals too. Transfer fee is just a part of any deal.

 

[TheHood]

That's your own fault, not Janssen's.
From a player under 23 and for 17M, Janssen's first season was exactly what I expected.

You expected just 2 outfield goals? Really?

Janssen has stated himself that he has a disapointing season, Poch stated in mid Feb mid that was wasn't showing enough ( and really didn't play that much followignthat )and most commenters outside of the club state the he has been poor. There is nothing to suggest his showing was acceptable and everything to show that it wasn't.

If I started a thread on here about Musa at Leicester do you think there would such faith and defence of the players qualities as there is with Janssen?

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

The poster asked which back up striker in the league had that record with the assertion that there wasn't any, hence the names.The whole first season argument is entirely different one all together.

Again this really comes down to expectations. From a 17 million signing I expect more than 1 outfield Pl goal and more than 1 outfield goal in the cups. My expectation from a big money signing is 10-12 outfield goals so he has fallen way short hence the comments. That isn't acceptable to me and I firmly believe it won't be for the club which is why as I stated earlier that I expect him to be gone come the seasons start.
I also fully expect the player to think that was not an acceptable season.

If some wish to believe otherwise then that is perfectly fine but it does beg the question what expectations did they have for the player for this season and what expectations do they have for him for the next and why they believe he can meet this.

Trust me I am not a toll, I'm actually starting to think (and not by you) that I'm getting trolled by some in these discussions.

So now it's expectations

I don't think anybody has said he's met expectations and nobody has said he WILL be a success, but people understand why and that given more time he might be. MIGHT be. This is all pretty much about you refusing to make that allowance really. He might succeed he may well fail but you made the judgment VERY early on and have warped just about every argument anyone has put up, you quoted two players who you deemed as acceptable whose records are pretty much similar to Jansen's and you wonder if you're being trolled?

Anyway, if believing otherwise is 'fine' with you then I guess you're done.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

This thread is funny.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

You expected just 2 outfield goals? Really?

Janssen has stated himself that he has a disapointing season, Poch stated in mid Feb mid that was wasn't showing enough ( and really didn't play that much followignthat )and most commenters outside of the club state the he has been poor. There is nothing to suggest his showing was acceptable and everything to show that it wasn't.

If I started a thread on here about Musa at Leicester do you think there would such faith and defence of the players qualities as there is with Janssen?

When we signed Janssen, I didn't think we signed anyone who would largely influence last season at all. I expected to pretty much write off the first six months from when he signed, mainly due to him needing to improve physically, and I expected him to more or less prove that he would be worthy of getting a shot at a second season with us. The issue here isn't Janssen's price tag, nor his strengths and weaknesses, but your own unfounded expectations based on a price tag that you think gives foundation for expectations, but which was in reality at the very lowest end of the range for a young, senior striker.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

You expected just 2 outfield goals? Really?

Janssen has stated himself that he has a disapointing season, Poch stated in mid Feb mid that was wasn't showing enough ( and really didn't play that much followignthat )and most commenters outside of the club state the he has been poor. There is nothing to suggest his showing was acceptable and everything to show that it wasn't.

If I started a thread on here about Musa at Leicester do you think there would such faith and defence of the players qualities as there is with Janssen?

The reason people have faith is because they think they saw improvement in his play toward the end of the season. The reason they have faith is because people want him to succeed. There's nothing wrong with that. You keep on about Poch saying this, Jansen saying that, its all really only mirroring what nearly everyone in here has said, YES.....it could have gone better. Nobody is disputing that.

Kane, Rose, Alli, Walker, Dier, Son, Eriksen.

All have been scapegoats, written off or roundly ****ed off at some point or another and all have proved the doubters wrong.

Now, is it possible Jansen could do the same?

One word answer please. Yes or No.

 

[bigfrooj]

Anyone with an eye for a player can see there is real quality in Janssen. It would be folly not to give him more time.

 

[TheHood]

The reason people have faith is because they think they saw improvement in his play toward the end of the season. The reason they have faith is because people want him to succeed. There's nothing wrong with that. You keep on about Poch saying this, Jansen saying that, its all really only mirroring what nearly everyone in here has said, YES.....it could have gone better. Nobody is disputing that.

Kane, Rose, Alli, Walker, Dier, Son, Eriksen.

All have been scapegoats, written off or roundly ****ed off at some point or another and all have proved the doubters wrong.

Now, is it possible Jansen could do the same?

One word answer please. Yes or No.

Yes.

It is possible any player could do or could achieve anything. Janssen could score 20 league goals next season. He could go onto to become a club legend.

The key is the balance of probabilities, what actual evidence is there to suggest such a thing will happen. And from what we have seen so far there is little to nothing that he can even meet my expectation of this season (being a player that can contribute 10-12 league goals). Had we seen Michcy Batyashai style end to he campaign such faith may be warranted but what I see is blind faith shown in the player which for some hasn't waivered since he start of the season.

As I have said before the club has routinely disregarded young players who have failed to perform after a season. The likes of Postiga, Zamaora, Routledge and Andy Reid, Njie were soon disregarded after joining the club. And for all of the Bale, Sons that are used to highlight as evidence of more time there is the likes of Soldaldo,Paulinho, Rebrov, Bentley, Bent who demonstrate that there are some players who simply need more than that. There isn't a set process for this, it should be taken on an individual basis.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Seduce my ancient footwear. Yes followed by a squillion words on why you actually mean no.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Reid, Positga, Routledge Zamora ...



Why are any of you bothering.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Yes.
There isn't a set process for this, it should be taken on an individual basis.

This is probably the only sentence you have written on the topic that actually is sensible, factual and in other terms quite balanced.

And on an individual basis, it is my wholehearted view that Janssen has what it takes to cut it for us in the future.

 

[TheHood]

Seduce my ancient footwear. Yes followed by a squillion words on why you actually mean no.

You know that is a loaded question, I could equally turn it around and say is it possible that Janssen could go the same way as Postiga etc. It's a question presented in a way in which you could only say yes to that. I don't think anyone is stating definiatives on this because it would be silly to do that either way.

 

[TheHood]

This is probably the only sentence you have written on the topic that actually is sensible, factual and in other terms quite balanced.

And on an individual basis, it is my wholehearted view that Janssen has what it takes to cut it for us in the future.

We will see who is correct come the end of the summer.

 

[TheHood]

There. Right there shows just have massively you just don't get it. This whole thing hasn't been about right and wrong, it never has been, its been about writing him off because you think a handful of games is enough time to make a judgement, a judgement you made before christmas IIRC. I'm literally losing the will to type, that's how breathakingly stupid what you said there is and it comes hot on the heels of about a hundred rank bad hoodisms.

I knew going in what a complete waste of time it is with you. Fuck me I must have been mad. I can't go on with this.......someone, anyone, hand me a noose.

The club's decision will demonstrate who is correct as to the whether the level he has shown has been sufficient and as to whether there has been enough time to determine that. And I perfectly understand the point at hand. My whole argument has been that in the modern game there is no real leeway, there is no patience or time not when the average tenure of managers is just 423 days, not when clubs readily dispose of young players after a short period ( as I have demonstrated with a number of players). A player has to demonstrate their worth to be retained and as you are aware I don't think he has done anywhere near that which is why I think he will be gone. Now the club will either prove me right in that belief or they will show me to be wrong, the point is we will have to see. As for my views on Jansen( which you can see the progression on the other thread) they were neutral to begin with ( as they should be with any player) and the concern grew as his poor form continued. I judge players on their performances not what I want or hope them to be.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

You know that is a loaded question, I could equally turn it around and say is it possible that Janssen could go the same way as Postiga etc. It's a question presented in a way in which you could only say yes to that. I don't think anyone is stating definiatives on this because it would be silly to do that either way.

Feel free to turn it around, i've always said he might not make it. I've got nothing to hide, i'm not swapping positions like a hanoi hooker on the marching powder.

 

[TheHood]

Feel free to turn it around, i've always said he might not make it. I've got nothing to hide, i'm not swapping positions like a hanoi hooker on the marching powder.

I didn't try claim otherwise. I hope the player proves me wrong, he seems like a decent guy. As I said before if the facts change so will my opinions of him.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

The club's decision will demonstrate who is correct as to the whether the level he has shown has been sufficient and as to whether there has been enough time to determine that.

There you go again, who is correct. You still don't get it. You really don't and i'm not going to keep on trying to get the point over. Again, I must have been insane, having previous experience of your MO.