Was the appointment of Ryan Mason racist?

[BringBack_leGin]

Sometimes I just feel the urge to dip my head out of retirement!!

Well it’s welcome, particularly if we can get Kendall back too ?

 

[WhiteStripe]

Well it’s welcome, particularly if we can get Kendall back too ?

Haha, oh the scenes!! Get the band back together!!!

 

[robin09]

I think it's a very serious claim to make. That should require substantial evidence. When I listened to the pod and heard Windy say that, I cringed.

Mason struck me as an appointment that was clearly going to be for 7 matches only. The feeling around the club was rock bottom, and Levy probably thought hiring Mason would be a short term antidote that may boost the morale enough to see a response in the cup and league games. Appointing Powell as a coach would give Mason some experience to lean on.

Would Powell have accepted a 7 game managerial role? Was it cheaper/easier to just promote Mason? Do the club have high expectations for Mason in the future and thought now was a good opportunity to see whether there's a hint at a future managerial career?

We don't know. We don't know much about the people who make the decisions, nor what Powell and Mason wanted. Nor does Windy. To throw 'racism' around like that, just devalues the instances when it is clearly a factor in life.

 

[guiltyparty]

He might actually have the glimmer of a point here. Mason is the golden boy who has been fast tracked beyond his competence. Powell is a highly experienced coach who was overlooked because.....? We don’t know, but I think it’s fair to assume that optics were more important than experience here, and for whatever reason the inexperienced Mason was seen as more of a crowd pleaser than the highly experienced Powell.

That’s not racism, but it might fall under unconscious bias. The gammons will never accept it though.

Got to admit I did actually think this at the time

Consider in any typical workplace this happening - young inexperienced white dude barely out of nappies given job over experienced older black dude with international recognition without even an interview process, and you’d have a hell of a HR case right now

We don’t have any details on specifics though.

 

[guiltyparty]

If the decision is being made on optics/crowd pleasing (rather than coaching experience) then surely the victim of "structural racism" here would be Ledley King not Chris Powell who never played for us? Ledley fits both bills.

But WIndy was specific about it being Chris Powell. Made me scratch my head.

Because having played for the club shouldn’t really outweigh experience. Powell is the most experienced manager on our books, works with the international team, and it was even suggested his role with us was a bit of a step down when he took it

People may not agree with it or think we need the conversation but it’s really not an out of left field concept

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Not at all clued up on this subject. But is there not the slightest possibility that Powell may have been asked to take on the position but just didn't fancy it & said he'd be happy to be something of a guide for Mason?

 

[robin09]

I also think that Ledley probably would have been asked to do it, had he been a bit further on with the coaching qualifications. Would have been a great opportunity for him if the timing had worked out.

 

[guiltyparty]

Not at all clued up on this subject. But is there not the slightest possibility that Powell may have been asked to take on the position but just didn't fancy it & said he'd be happy to be something of a guide for Mason?

Of course.

Powell on black managers:

“If your pool of black managers is small to begin with then it can look bad when a few of us go.

“The answer to that is to increase the number of candidates of colour in position to get these jobs, because there are plenty of good BAME coaches, male and female, in academies and at grassroots. That is something for the game’s decision-makers to consider.

“I wonder if it will be a generational thing and, like what the first wave of black players in the 70s and 80s went through, we will get a big breakthrough”

"I have to play my part and show people I'm capable and then when my time's up someone can come in and feel comfortable being a coach at this level or maybe a manager at club level or even at national level.”

Doesn’t sound like a guy who’d turn it down, but no one knows certainly.

 

[cockerel downunder]

This does seem like a poorly chosen hill to die on from windy. It’s very common for recent Ex players turned managers to be supported by more experienced coaches. It’s about being high profile, a prem manager is a figurehead as much as anything else (or a lightening rod in this case!)

I will say however that despite this it has at least started a conversation and there has been some interesting points made in this thread so thanks to those more considered posters.

Side note, does anyone else picture Harry Potter when they hear windy speak? Just can’t take him seriously though I generally like the extra inch podcast.

 

[bigfrooj]

Is this ridiculous thread still going? There was no racism here, conscious or unconscious. The chairman had to find someone from within and he challenged Ryan with it, to see what he has. He's highly rated and seen as potential but that's nothing if you don't have the bollocks for it. Ryan Mason has a big future.

 

[Savage7]

Appointing a person in any role with colour or ethnicity as a reason or factor is infact racism, reverse racism if you please.

A person should be appointed on merit, and I think it is safe to say Chris Powell would not have the job on merit given his previous/current role.
Ryan Mason also did not get the job on merit, however rather than him being white or CP being black being a factor, it was down to his ties to the club and current players, and his back story, which IMO was intended to bring a one of our own vibe and positivity.

Also there was no risk of him keeping the job given his inexperience no matter what he achieved, however had CP took over, got 4th and won the cup, it would of been hard to not keep him permanently given he has a lot of management experience already.
This again would not be a racist decision, but the fact that he isn’t a big name and draw to players, the arguments of the merit of which are a different debate.

 

[PH936]

What nonsense.

 

[Ray_Evans]

There was no racism here, conscious or unconscious.

You can't possibly know that, particularly if the racism was 'unconscious' on the part of whoever made the decision.

As for the chairman's judgement, in recent times it's been, to quote Malcolm Tucker, 'about as much use as a marzipan dildo'.

 

['O Zio]

Is this ridiculous thread still going? There was no racism here, conscious or unconscious. The chairman had to find someone from within and he challenged Ryan with it, to see what he has. He's highly rated and seen as potential but that's nothing if you don't have the bollocks for it. Ryan Mason has a big future.

I agree that I don't think the appointment was racist but the rest I just can't agree with. Mason isn't in the position he's in because he's highly rated.

Levy just needed someone to fill the hole for the last few games of the season and Mason is just a convenient choice because he's almost universally liked by the fans and Spurs giving him the job is good PR cos it looks like they're doing right by him after his tragic incident etc. It's got fuck all to do with his ability as a manager, it's a PR move.

Just to clarify I'm not trying to slag off Mason. For all we know he could go on to be a brilliant manager in the future. But the fact that he has been given this interim job for the last 5/6 games of the season is not because Levy has him pegged as some young genius who could potentially take the job full time. There's no way.

 

[bigfrooj]

I agree that I don't think the appointment was racist but the rest I just can't agree with. Mason isn't in the position he's in because he's highly rated.

Levy just needed someone to fill the hole for the last few games of the season and Mason is just a convenient choice because he's almost universally liked by the fans and Spurs giving him the job is good PR cos it looks like they're doing right by him after his tragic incident etc. It's got fuck all to do with his ability as a manager, it's a PR move.

Just to clarify I'm not trying to slag off Mason. For all we know he could go on to be a brilliant manager in the future. But the fact that he has been given this interim job for the last 5/6 games of the season is not because Levy has him pegged as some young genius who could potentially take the job full time. There's no way.

He’s a long way off being a candidate for a big club but he showed he can probably handle a certain amount of pressure and he can handle the media. I think they know he can coach but can he be a head coach or a manager?Time will tell but if the club are taking a long term approach then I’m all for that.

 

[punkisback]

Is this ridiculous thread still going? There was no racism here, conscious or unconscious. The chairman had to find someone from within and he challenged Ryan with it, to see what he has. He's highly rated and seen as potential but that's nothing if you don't have the bollocks for it. Ryan Mason has a big future.

It’s one of those things in this situation we can’t tell. Unconscious discrimination isn’t even an aggressive thing. People need to see that it’s not about calling the N word or the P word. Levy isn’t sitting there consciously thinking oh Mason is better because he’s white. I think people need to stop getting offended when racism is brought up as a factor in life.

 

[Yiddo_86]

The fact this is a discussion is quite alarming.

 

[XIIIMPC]

You can't possibly know that, particularly if the racism was 'unconscious' on the part of whoever made the decision.

Exactly! This is my frustration with this thread. Unconscious bias is a thing and the whole point is that even the people making the decision are unaware of their bias. It requires strong self-interrogation. The idea that somebody who has never even had a conversation with the person making the decision can declare, with such absolute certainty, that there is *no bias whatsoever* is simply preposterous to me.

Again that is not to say, definitively, that it is racist either. I don't think it was, on balance. But I think absolutely rejecting the possibility of it is... extreme and strikes me more as an instinctive opposition to the "woke" than a critical and thoughtful reading of the situation.

It’s one of those things in this situation we can’t tell. Unconscious discrimination isn’t even an aggressive thing. People need to see that it’s not about calling the N word or the P word. Levy isn’t sitting there consciously thinking oh Mason is better because he’s white. I think people need to stop getting offended when racism is brought up as a factor in life.

I was going to say almost exactly this. Nobody is accusing Levy of being in the KKK. It is possible that there was an element of unconscious bias in the appointment of Mason. That's not to say he's this gigantic incurably racist prick.

 

[Yacob1964]

I think it's a very serious claim to make. That should require substantial evidence. When I listened to the pod and heard Windy say that, I cringed.

Mason struck me as an appointment that was clearly going to be for 7 matches only. The feeling around the club was rock bottom, and Levy probably thought hiring Mason would be a short term antidote that may boost the morale enough to see a response in the cup and league games. Appointing Powell as a coach would give Mason some experience to lean on.

Would Powell have accepted a 7 game managerial role? Was it cheaper/easier to just promote Mason? Do the club have high expectations for Mason in the future and thought now was a good opportunity to see whether there's a hint at a future managerial career?

We don't know. We don't know much about the people who make the decisions, nor what Powell and Mason wanted. Nor does Windy. To throw 'racism' around like that, just devalues the instances when it is clearly a factor in life.

Ryan Mason's appointment was race based, he had no managerial experience, Chris Powell has actually managed professional teams put it this way if Ryan Mason had Chris Powell's experience and Chris Powell had Ryan Mason's experience who would you choose, wouldn't go with the one who has more experience?

 

[robin09]

Ryan Mason's appointment was race based, he had no managerial experience, Chris Powell has actually managed professional teams put it this way if Ryan Mason had Chris Powell's experience and Chris Powell had Ryan Mason's experience who would you choose, wouldn't go with the one who has more experience?

Ok that's a valid question. I have no idea what the answer is, because I don't know what the factors were in deciding who to take charge for the 7 games.
The problem is, your opinion is not evidence. It's not proof of the appointment being based on anyone's race. So to go from 'I wonder if it was the other way round' to Windy's assumption that 'the board of tottenham hotspur are racist' is an unsubstantiated leap. And when we use terms that are as serious and damaging as 'racist' we should be extra careful to back up our claims.