What our opponents' fans are saying about us 17/18

[Shadydan]

The flaw to that argument is that it uses an assumption that the standard of Europe's tops teams has remained stagnant since 2008. It hasn't. Real Madrid have sorted their shit out and become more consistent since Ronaldo arrived, Atletico have come to the table, Dortmund have grown and established themselves as the second power in Germany, PSG had their few years of throwing huge sums of money at players (including Ibrahimovic and Luiz - two of the best players in the EPL this year) and Bayern and Juve have returned to powerhouse status after a period of transition. Of the best 7 or 8 teams outside of the EPL, only Barcelona would argue they were nearly as good in 2005-2008 than they are now.

These things work in cycles however and those teams you've mentioned have just replaced the others who have dropped off, AC Milan, Inter, Valencia, Roma even Porto were getting to the latter stages of European competition, I wouldn't say it's as cut and dry as you make out.

 

[tommo84]

These things work in cycles however and those teams you've mentioned have just replaced the others who have dropped off, AC Milan, Inter, Valencia, Roma even Porto were getting to the latter stages of European competition, I wouldn't say it's as cut and dry as you make out.

Excellent point. However, my biggest point was that any comparison some fans make between EPL teams performance in Europe now vs 10 years ago doesn't account for the changes - cyclical or otherwise - in the standards of our European rivals. That the two MIlan teams and Valencia have dropped off so much, and each for different reasons, is testament to just how many variables are at play.

 

[DogsOfWar]

I agree with this, but the performance of Premiere League clubs in CL and EL does suggest it has gone down.

My issue with this is that teams that are currently winning the PL aren't in Europe and our last two CL winners weren't competing for the league.

It suggests that teams in the PL cannot compete successfully in both competitions which would be linked with the strength of our league.
Even teams like Leicester who haven't been trying in the league can get to the quarter finals.

 

[Shadydan]

Excellent point. However, my biggest point was that any comparison some fans make between EPL teams performance in Europe now vs 10 years ago doesn't account for the changes - cyclical or otherwise - in the standards of our European rivals. That the two MIlan teams and Valencia have dropped off so much, and each for different reasons, is testament to just how many variables are at play.

All true

One thing people always fail to take into account is that the Premiership has improved so much as a whole that ironically the top teams in the EL and CL have dropped off and are suffering as a result. The intensity in this league now is like no other and it's at a point where teams have to be on their A game in all matches including the games against the relegation threatened teams. It's becoming very difficult to maintain a standard at a high level without expecting a drop off somewhere and I reckon that the Prem teams are not at 100% mentally or physically prepared when they play in Europe, look at what a season with no European football has done for Chelsea and Liverpool for example, even Leicester put their all into there CL campaign and downed tools for the majority of the season in the league and look at the results.

One thing that always stands out for me is the comparison to La Liga, whilst i think that La Liga is a better league than the Prem for tactical and technical ability which is why you always see those teams in the latter stages of Euro competition they dont half get help from the other teams in the league. The top teams regularly beat the bottom sides with ease and when I say beat you see a lot of high scorelines, why? apart from being indefinitely better than them the attitudes of the bottom sides is that they don't really need to turn up against the big teams because of their stupid head to head ruling meaning that their key matches are against their rival relegation threatened teams. A team down the bottom of La Liga can be beaten 7-0 by Barca and 5-0 by Real and have a -50 GD only to win 1-0 against a rival team down there who have a -30 GD it sets a precedent that the players don't really need to turn up against the bigger sides.

Interesting to hear Bale's comments on the comparison:

you have to be at 100 per cent for 90 minutes or you will lose

In Spain, you can be up at half-time against the bottom club and take your foot off the gas. You can rest players and take people off. If you try for 45 minutes you won't win a match in the Premier League.

And he also talks about the winter break being massive

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...bale-real-madrid-premier-league-a7615366.html

 

[dagraham]

All true

One thing people always fail to take into account is that the Premiership has improved so much as a whole that ironically the top teams in the EL and CL have dropped off and are suffering as a result. The intensity in this league now is like no other and it's at a point where teams have to be on their A game in all matches including the games against the relegation threatened teams. It's becoming very difficult to maintain a standard at a high level without expecting a drop off somewhere and I reckon that the Prem teams are not at 100% mentally or physically prepared when they play in Europe, look at what a season with no European football has done for Chelsea and Liverpool for example, even Leicester put their all into there CL campaign and downed tools for the majority of the season in the league and look at the results.

One thing that always stands out for me is the comparison to La Liga, whilst i think that La Liga is a better league than the Prem for tactical and technical ability which is why you always see those teams in the latter stages of Euro competition they dont half get help from the other teams in the league. The top teams regularly beat the bottom sides with ease and when I say beat you see a lot of high scorelines, why? apart from being indefinitely better than them the attitudes of the bottom sides is that they don't really need to turn up against the big teams because of their stupid head to head ruling meaning that their key matches are against their rival relegation threatened teams. A team down the bottom of La Liga can be beaten 7-0 by Barca and 5-0 by Real and have a -50 GD only to win 1-0 against a rival team down there who have a -30 GD it sets a precedent that the players don't really need to turn up against the bigger sides.

Interesting to hear Bale's comments on the comparison:





And he also talks about the winter break being massive

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...bale-real-madrid-premier-league-a7615366.html

Also a big factor in why England teams are always so shit when it comes to tournaments.

Yes, technical ability and tactical awareness play their part, as well as the crazy pressure and baggage England football teams can't seem to handle. The biggest thing though is that our players are just mentally and physically drained after a PL season.

 

[Shadydan]

Also a big factor in why England teams are always so shit when it comes to tournaments.

Yes, technical ability and tactical awareness play their part, as well as the crazy pressure and baggage England football teams can't seem to handle. The biggest thing though is that our players are just mentally and physically drained after a PL season.

I think it's a lot to do with media pressure and the fact that we've had some absolute dickheads in charge of England during major tournaments.

 

[SpursFan2013]

This is so true, what is that all about when we play that horrible lot! We never give a good account of ourselves!

Unfortunately Liverpool and to an extent Chelsea typify the type of team that we struggle against the most and it's also what hurt us in Europe against Leverkusen and Monaco.

The midfield and forward lines work hard to win the ball back high up the pitch and then the counter is immediately on with either players who are comfortable carrying the ball at pace or playing it behind the defence for their speed merchants to get on to - if you think about the individuals who have caused us the most problems this season: hazard, pedro, mane, bernardo silva, hernandez - even Zaha in our most recent game looked a real threat in the first half. With the exception of Zaha who was carrying his team the other players have a supporting cast of very talented ball winners and distributors and they look to capitalise on our mistakes rather than control the possession of the game.

In the case of the Liverpool games, the number of mistakes that they were forcing us to make basically made our game unrecognisable and we couldn't take advantage of their relatively poor defence.

The great thing is that the quality of player necessary for all of this is pretty rare so even when managers set out to take us on using these tactics they invariably struggle.

 

[TaoistMonkey]

Delusional Prick. I take it back about saying I feel sorry for him about the abuse he's getting from the fans.

 

[hughy]

Delusional Prick. I take it back about saying I feel sorry for him about the abuse he's getting from the fans.

He knows he's staying at Arsenal so he's just saying whatever he can to get a few fickle Gooners back on his side before the announcement.

 

[Shadydan]

Delusional Prick. I take it back about saying I feel sorry for him about the abuse he's getting from the fans.

What is he meant to say?

 

[SpursDave88]

What is he meant to say?

'Our goal is to finish in the top four. To do that we need to beat Tottenham.'

 

[dagraham]

I think it's a lot to do with media pressure and the fact that we've had some absolute dickheads in charge of England during major tournaments.

We have had some dickheads, but we've also had managers like Capello, who's certainly not a dickhead.

Same result.

 

[Shadydan]

We have had some dickheads, but we've also had managers like Capello, who's certainly not a dickhead.

Same result.

He was an utter dickhead, horrible man manager, too rigid and too much of a disciplinarian. Our World Cup squad was shit but that doesn't excuse the utter dross performances, worst tournament showing since Euro 2000

 

[matty182]

from goonmania (although I presumed Sanchez might be out after that horrendous facial injury against Leicester)

If there was a time for Sanchez to don his diving boots, this is his moment. He's got two targets :

1. Have that thug Wanyama sent off.

2. Win a dubious pen.

I'll be chuffed with whichever comes first.

0-1 to the Arsenal much like that familiar beloved song

 

[Shadydan]

'Our goal is to finish in the top four. To do that we need to beat Tottenham.'

That's pretty much what he said

Semantics really

 

[Lilbaz]

That's pretty much what he said

Semantics really

Don't be anti-semantic it's not nice.

 

[mightyspur]

This is all well and good, but what are our opponents fans saying about us?

 

[not_tenth-again]

We have had some dickheads, but we've also had managers like Capello, who's certainly not a dickhead.

Same result.

Same shit squad/team selection is the biggest issue..... unfamiliar formations so that 'name' players can be accommodated, picking bench players from the top table sides over worthy starters from the next level of team and then continually taking injured players away to tournaments. Some things will never change....

Oh, and giving ex players roles within the England set up well before they've earned the privilege which inturn allows the next generation to be sold short.

it's a beautiful cycle... if you support another country

 

[not_tenth-again]

This is all well and good, but what are our opponents fans saying about us?

They're busy thinking up excuses to help themselves avoid the obvious elephant in the corner of the room.

Which is that the Spurs juggernaut is on the move and they can't stop it

 

[Lilbaz]

This is all well and good, but what are our opponents fans saying about us?

https://arsenal-mania.com/forum/threads/pl-tottenham-vs-arsenal-30th-april-16-30-gmt.30068/