Who benefits and doesn't from a 3-5-2?

[BringBack_leGin]

I thought there reports that Conte really like Ndombele - am I misremembering that?

I think there were but based on two years watching Ndombele, he is not suited unless he has a dramatic step change now he’s been dropped by France.

Barrella is probably Conte’s perfect CM, which is far closer to Skipp and Lo Celso than Ndombele. I actually think there’s a good chance that Højbjerg will be less involved too once Skipp makes the position his own, but would still probably get loads of pitch time.

 

[dontcallme]

I thought there reports that Conte really like Ndombele - am I misremembering that?

There definitely was, but how valid those reports are I, like most things, have no idea.

Used correctly and if he ups his game to another level I see no reason Ndombele couldn't work in a Conte team.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I think there were but based on two years watching Ndombele, he is not suited unless he has a dramatic step change now he’s been dropped by France.

Barrella is probably Conte’s perfect CM, which is far closer to Skipp and Lo Celso than Ndombele. I actually think there’s a good chance that Højbjerg will be less involved too once Skipp makes the position his own, but would still probably get loads of pitch time.

It’s interesting re Skipp and Hojbjerg - I was watching one of Skipp’s highlight videos after watching the Inter goals video, and I think Skipp is better suited to one of the two forward CMs, and not yet ready for the deeper role. I think he still needs another year or two to continue to fill out his upper body strength naturally, but he could slot in now in one of the other spots with his energy, pace, tackling and passing.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Good points but these all seem like aspects that would be coachable to me. I wouldn't expect Conte to play him there without drilling some instruction as to how he wants him to play. Maybe this could be exactly what Ndombele needs.

Maybe, but that’s a lot of coaching to do to get him there. He needs to be available for the outlet ball all the time and he needs to be able to get the ball out quicker than he does as he hangs on to it too long. Then he needs to learn the defensive scheme and be better defensively. Then he needs to be able to have the intensity and fitness desired by conte. If he can master all of that then yeh I can see him doing well but I have my doubts.

 

[danielneeds]

We know Son and Kane will score goals, Dele too if he gets fit and in form. I think our wingback options are good with Reggie, Sess, and Doherty who’ll feel more comfortable there. If we can find a good replacement for Aurier then we’ll be in business.

They key thing will he signing the right CBs who can defend but are confident on the ball when pressed and finding the right balance in midfield which Jose could never seem to do.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Can't see that. He does not have the pace to play in Son's role, and I don't see him rotating in for Kane very often.

I don't think he can play the role Eriksen played for Inter - not creative/quick enough. And I don't think he has the industry to play the other CM role.

I could definitely see Dele as one of the outs this summer to finance Conte's targets.

But Son's role is not, and never has been, in a 2 alongside Kane. Dele would be Sheringham to Kane's Shearer.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Good points but these all seem like aspects that would be coachable to me. I wouldn't expect Conte to play him there without drilling some instruction as to how he wants him to play. Maybe this could be exactly what Ndombele needs.

If Conte gets a decent tune out of Ndombs, I'll personally set up a new religion with Conte as its supreme being, and dedicate my life to his worship.

 

[danielneeds]

But Son's role is not, and never has been, in a 2 alongside Kane. Dele would be Sheringham to Kane's Shearer.

They were playing basically as a two earlier this season. In fact Son’s form collapsed when he went back to a more orthodox left sided position.

 

[crazyguitarman]

Maybe, but that’s a lot of coaching to do to get him there. He needs to be available for the outlet ball all the time and he needs to be able to get the ball out quicker than he does as he hangs on to it too long. Then he needs to learn the defensive scheme and be better defensively. Then he needs to be able to have the intensity and fitness desired by conte. If he can master all of that then yeh I can see him doing well but I have my doubts.

Yeah, and of course it's only speculation but that doesn't seem so farfetched to me. Is the DM role so physically and defensively demanding in Conte's system though? I agree it's important that he would need to be available at all times and to get the ball out quicker, he needs to be good on the ball too because the opposition will look to close him down quickly, and he needs to be able to put a tackle in when he needs to. It's the defenders and the more defensive box-to-box centre mid that do most of the hard graft defensively though isn't it? I'm basing this mostly on what I've seen from Brozovic and Pirlo.

 

[Albertbarich]

So many interesting factors that could come into play.

If Bale stays then does conte move to 343 to accommodate him? If so does that mean potentially both lo celso and ndombele lose out as you would imagine the two would be more combative.

If Bale doesn't come back then where does that leave lucas and or berjwijn. I could Imagine conte might fancy converting one of them Victor moses style .

Dele plays best in the hole , a position we won't play so where does that leave him?

Does this give Doherty a chance?


Personally I'd like to see the following..

Tanganga and rodon given a chance , new right wing back signed as first choice. With a top class centre back to compete for a spot.

Sissoko and lucas moved on, berjwijn kept incase we move in game to a 343.

Dele sold to fund a move for move combative midfield who can pass- I love bissouma and we should be going all our for Danny ings. Last yeareft on his deal and perfect kane backup/partner.

 

[Cochise]

So I've watched a few things about his current Inter and picked out a few things that we may or may not be able to replicate.

Defence
Firstly is the three man defence. I'll break down the components and where I think that leaves certain players.

a) All three are comfortable in stepping out of the back line to press their man. They are aggressive and like to get their foot in and force their opponent away from goal. Of our current batch of defenders I think Tanganga has demonstrated that he is good at this, his performance against Mane last year was a great example. Rodon has that fire, but Davies, Dier, Sanchez and even Foyth all seem incredibly hesistant or weak in this regard. Alderweireld does it well mind, but that's more due to his experience.

b) The two outside centre backs are comfortable in stepping into the midfield with the ball. This is good news for all of our defenders apart from Sanchez. We all know that he is fairly poor with the ball at his feet.

c) One of the outside centre backs is a very comfortable ball player and able to dictate. Toby all day long here. Davies and Dier would also be good options with above average (for defenders) passing ranges.


So to conclude I think we lack another really aggresive CB. I think a good chunk of our defenders are pussies who either don't like going in for the tackle or are just not so good at it. Rodon and Tanganga I think are good shouts, whilst Toby, Foyth, Dier and Davies are serviceable options. Only Sanchez completely fails at ticking any of the options I noted.

Midfield
a) A DM that sits and dictates. I'm fairly confident that both Skipp and Hojbjerg can do this job. Skipp for me slightly edges it, however I'm very aware that this is because he's a Spurs youth product.

b) A CM that is fairly capable at going box to box. Good dribbling and passing abilities. N'Dombele without a doubt can do this, even with the doubts some have regarding his fitness. I do think his ability and tendency to over complicate may cause Conte headaches to start, however i don't think it will be for long. Winks, GLC and Dele are all fair options here too, hell even Sissoko could do alright.

c) A more creative player that is equally happy forming a deep pivot as they are at creating in the half spaces. I honestly think that this is the one that we'd need to look at. GLC and Dele will likely be options, but I think we really lack the right player to take up this role.

Winks and Sissoko miss out and tbh so does Dele. Whilst Dele has his positives, I'm not 100% sure it is in this area of the field.

Wingbacks
I don't think a lot needs to be said on this one. Reguilon and Sessegnon are perfect on the left with the latter imo being a good shout for making the spot his. Sessegnon does have more attacking instincts and during his time at Fulham demonstrated a great intelligence for picking when to be in the box. Doherty is a decent option on the other flank too, however I think a move for a pacy first choice will be one of Conte's first moves.

I agree that Moura and Bergwijn could both be converted. Moura actually feels like he'd adapt better to the change imo, but both may find themselves in trouble.

Attack
Kane and Son are already one of the strongest attacking partnerships in the league, perhaps in the world. However, I'm going to piss on everyone's chips and say that I'm not 100% convinced by Son in this system unless we were to go to a 343. My thinking comes from the fact that Son is absolutely awful with his back to goal and Conte needs his forwards to be able to work like that.

One thought I have had is that in a 343 Dele, Bergwijn and Son could all find a home in the front three. In a front two however, I think that having the option of a second, strong striker may compliment Kane more than Son in certain games. Either way that type of player will be needed to rotate with Kane anyway.


Winners
Reguilon, Tanganga, Alderweireld, Rodon, Sessegnon, Doherty, Foyth, N'Dombele, Skipp, Hojbjerg, GLC, Kane, Son.

Losers
Aurier, Sanchez, Sissoko, Lamela.

To be seen
Dier, Davies, Winks, Moura, Bergwijn, Dele

 

[Locotoro]

Ndombele: will benfit alot with Conte and remember I have hated on Ndombele 99.9% of my posts this season. Will all deeper and play the Brosovic role and I think he will be really good this season.
Hojberg: Will become the big looser in the midfield, conte playes a man to man defence with the 3 central mids, and want the 2 infront to be able to have a really good passing foot when they win the ball in the counter-attacks, witch Hojberg lacks (will be playing against teams that we will fall back againt) in the vidal role.
Lo Celso: Big winner. Will fit perfect in a man to man defence. With good work rate and passing fot he will take the barella role just fine.

I disagree with your assessment of Hojbjerg.

Conte plays Brozovic in the DM role first and foremost because of his defensive discipline and positioning. If you're going to pick one of the three to hold position and provide angles for the defence to maintain possession and get the ball to the wingbacks 100% that is Hojbjerg. No way Ndombele plays as deepest CM.

Of the two CM in front, both need to have athletic ability and high energy levels in order to press but also help create overloads to the left and right. Lo Celso does this, Skipp can do this, even Dele can do this. Ndombele still has questions over his stamina levels in my opinion and doesn't work as an optimum choice in this system.

 

[Locotoro]

So I've watched a few things about his current Inter and picked out a few things that we may or may not be able to replicate.

Defence
Firstly is the three man defence. I'll break down the components and where I think that leaves certain players.

a) All three are comfortable in stepping out of the back line to press their man. They are aggressive and like to get their foot in and force their opponent away from goal. Of our current batch of defenders I think Tanganga has demonstrated that he is good at this, his performance against Mane last year was a great example. Rodon has that fire, but Davies, Dier, Sanchez and even Foyth all seem incredibly hesistant or weak in this regard. Alderweireld does it well mind, but that's more due to his experience.

b) The two outside centre backs are comfortable in stepping into the midfield with the ball. This is good news for all of our defenders apart from Sanchez. We all know that he is fairly poor with the ball at his feet.

c) One of the outside centre backs is a very comfortable ball player and able to dictate. Toby all day long here. Davies and Dier would also be good options with above average (for defenders) passing ranges.


So to conclude I think we lack another really aggresive CB. I think a good chunk of our defenders are pussies who either don't like going in for the tackle or are just not so good at it. Rodon and Tanganga I think are good shouts, whilst Toby, Foyth, Dier and Davies are serviceable options. Only Sanchez completely fails at ticking any of the options I noted.

Midfield
a) A DM that sits and dictates. I'm fairly confident that both Skipp and Hojbjerg can do this job. Skipp for me slightly edges it, however I'm very aware that this is because he's a Spurs youth product.

b) A CM that is fairly capable at going box to box. Good dribbling and passing abilities. N'Dombele without a doubt can do this, even with the doubts some have regarding his fitness. I do think his ability and tendency to over complicate may cause Conte headaches to start, however i don't think it will be for long. Winks, GLC and Dele are all fair options here too, hell even Sissoko could do alright.

c) A more creative player that is equally happy forming a deep pivot as they are at creating in the half spaces. I honestly think that this is the one that we'd need to look at. GLC and Dele will likely be options, but I think we really lack the right player to take up this role.

Winks and Sissoko miss out and tbh so does Dele. Whilst Dele has his positives, I'm not 100% sure it is in this area of the field.

Wingbacks
I don't think a lot needs to be said on this one. Reguilon and Sessegnon are perfect on the left with the latter imo being a good shout for making the spot his. Sessegnon does have more attacking instincts and during his time at Fulham demonstrated a great intelligence for picking when to be in the box. Doherty is a decent option on the other flank too, however I think a move for a pacy first choice will be one of Conte's first moves.

I agree that Moura and Bergwijn could both be converted. Moura actually feels like he'd adapt better to the change imo, but both may find themselves in trouble.

Attack
Kane and Son are already one of the strongest attacking partnerships in the league, perhaps in the world. However, I'm going to piss on everyone's chips and say that I'm not 100% convinced by Son in this system unless we were to go to a 343. My thinking comes from the fact that Son is absolutely awful with his back to goal and Conte needs his forwards to be able to work like that.

One thought I have had is that in a 343 Dele, Bergwijn and Son could all find a home in the front three. In a front two however, I think that having the option of a second, strong striker may compliment Kane more than Son in certain games. Either way that type of player will be needed to rotate with Kane anyway.


Winners
Reguilon, Tanganga, Alderweireld, Rodon, Sessegnon, Doherty, Foyth, N'Dombele, Skipp, Hojbjerg, GLC, Kane, Son.

Losers
Aurier, Sanchez, Sissoko, Lamela.

To be seen
Dier, Davies, Winks, Moura, Bergwijn, Dele

I agree generally.

But rather than losing Son or his attacking ability I think Conte will just drill the hell out of Son and improve his hold up play the same way he did with Lukaku

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I agree generally.

But rather than losing Son or his attacking ability I think Conte will just drill the hell out of Son and improve his hold up play the same way he did with Lukaku

Watching the Inter goals video - and it looks like Conte wanted one of the forwards to be able to run the channels and get in behind, while also pulling defenders out of position.

I think we will see a lot of Kane as the focal point, who can either put Son in through a channel, or get the ball to a wing back, while Kane continues to run towards the center of the goal for a return pass.

 

[Cochise]

I'd appreciate 4 more "agrees" on my previous post for synergy with the new man.

 

[muel]

Most of my thoughts have been covered.

One thing I will add on the wing backs in Conte's system after just watching all of Inter's goals from last season is their job is not to perform a lot of high crosses into the box for headers which is great because Doherty and Sessengnon in particular aren't those types of wide players (Reggy moreso but still not a big aspect of his game). So what IS expected of them in that system falls right into their strengths.

 

[Erm33]

As long as Bale and Kane are playing I don't really care who else plays. Just sort out a midfield and defence behind those two and you win matches.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

So I've watched a few things about his current Inter and picked out a few things that we may or may not be able to replicate.

Defence
Firstly is the three man defence. I'll break down the components and where I think that leaves certain players.

a) All three are comfortable in stepping out of the back line to press their man. They are aggressive and like to get their foot in and force their opponent away from goal. Of our current batch of defenders I think Tanganga has demonstrated that he is good at this, his performance against Mane last year was a great example. Rodon has that fire, but Davies, Dier, Sanchez and even Foyth all seem incredibly hesistant or weak in this regard. Alderweireld does it well mind, but that's more due to his experience.

b) The two outside centre backs are comfortable in stepping into the midfield with the ball. This is good news for all of our defenders apart from Sanchez. We all know that he is fairly poor with the ball at his feet.

c) One of the outside centre backs is a very comfortable ball player and able to dictate. Toby all day long here. Davies and Dier would also be good options with above average (for defenders) passing ranges.


So to conclude I think we lack another really aggresive CB. I think a good chunk of our defenders are pussies who either don't like going in for the tackle or are just not so good at it. Rodon and Tanganga I think are good shouts, whilst Toby, Foyth, Dier and Davies are serviceable options. Only Sanchez completely fails at ticking any of the options I noted.

Midfield
a) A DM that sits and dictates. I'm fairly confident that both Skipp and Hojbjerg can do this job. Skipp for me slightly edges it, however I'm very aware that this is because he's a Spurs youth product.

b) A CM that is fairly capable at going box to box. Good dribbling and passing abilities. N'Dombele without a doubt can do this, even with the doubts some have regarding his fitness. I do think his ability and tendency to over complicate may cause Conte headaches to start, however i don't think it will be for long. Winks, GLC and Dele are all fair options here too, hell even Sissoko could do alright.

c) A more creative player that is equally happy forming a deep pivot as they are at creating in the half spaces. I honestly think that this is the one that we'd need to look at. GLC and Dele will likely be options, but I think we really lack the right player to take up this role.

Winks and Sissoko miss out and tbh so does Dele. Whilst Dele has his positives, I'm not 100% sure it is in this area of the field.

Wingbacks
I don't think a lot needs to be said on this one. Reguilon and Sessegnon are perfect on the left with the latter imo being a good shout for making the spot his. Sessegnon does have more attacking instincts and during his time at Fulham demonstrated a great intelligence for picking when to be in the box. Doherty is a decent option on the other flank too, however I think a move for a pacy first choice will be one of Conte's first moves.

I agree that Moura and Bergwijn could both be converted. Moura actually feels like he'd adapt better to the change imo, but both may find themselves in trouble.

Attack
Kane and Son are already one of the strongest attacking partnerships in the league, perhaps in the world. However, I'm going to piss on everyone's chips and say that I'm not 100% convinced by Son in this system unless we were to go to a 343. My thinking comes from the fact that Son is absolutely awful with his back to goal and Conte needs his forwards to be able to work like that.

One thought I have had is that in a 343 Dele, Bergwijn and Son could all find a home in the front three. In a front two however, I think that having the option of a second, strong striker may compliment Kane more than Son in certain games. Either way that type of player will be needed to rotate with Kane anyway.


Winners
Reguilon, Tanganga, Alderweireld, Rodon, Sessegnon, Doherty, Foyth, N'Dombele, Skipp, Hojbjerg, GLC, Kane, Son.

Losers
Aurier, Sanchez, Sissoko, Lamela.

To be seen
Dier, Davies, Winks, Moura, Bergwijn, Dele

Top analysis, agree with all.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

This is why 3atb can be so successful if played well with the right players.

 

[yojambo]

Sometimes at Chelsea Conte played Kante and Matic as 2 in midfield with Hazard, Pedro, Costa up front. With our current players i suppose that would look like Skipp and Sissoko(?!) then Son, Lucas, Kane. Giving his history of getting results and performances out of players you wouldnt expect, im open minded and looking forward to seeing a few surprises. (Talking like its a done deal that Conte is coming)