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Who can step up to topple Liverpool?

miles_64

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Sep 10, 2004
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Below (and linked) is a fair assessment of the race for the top 4 from the BBC's Jonathan Pearce.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8341049.stm


Premier League vultures should be circling above the Stade Gerland in Lyon where Liverpool try to salvage their season on Wednesday.
It may seem heartless but Aston Villa, Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur need to keep a predatory eye on the Champions League tie. If Liverpool are standing on the brink, if Rafa Benitez is one defeat away from the bullet, any club with genuine ambitions to destroy the big four cartel must swoop in for the kill now. They've all talked the talk now it's time to walk the walk of a club capable of pulling away from Liverpool in the table over coming weeks.

Right now the Anfield club is in the gutter but it won't stay there. The injuries to Gerrard, Torres and too many others have been critical but when the Kop first team is fully fit, it is one of the very few sides capable of going on a 10-game winning streak. If the contenders don't leave them reeling on the ropes now, they could be KO'd by a late-season Liverpool counter-punch. For sure Liverpool, stricken by their worst run in over 50 years, have it all to do to make the last four again but they've shown time and time again their powers of recovery.

The others will hit previously unknown pressures in the run-in unless they've opened up a big enough gap. On average over the last 10 years the fourth-placed Premier League club has accrued 67 points. Manchester City are best placed to hit that target. Having picked up 1.9 points a game so far, they need to average 1.71 from here on in. They're capable of scoring goals for fun and the defence is much improved but the club is an expensive piece of work in progress. The inability to win their last three games against modest opposition following the draw at Villa when they were outplayed for periods raises serious questions. Do enough City players have the cold-eyed killer's lust for victory at all cost? Trips to Liverpool and Tottenham and the home game with Chelsea to come over the next few weeks could give them a sobering reality check. A genuine top four side would target six points from those matches. City can be the success story of the season or its biggest flop.

If Villa maintain their fine start they could easily hit the 67-point mark. Wins over Chelsea and Liverpool show they can now beat the big boys on their day but defeats against Wigan and Blackburn are reminders of what happens to Martin O'Neill's players when they're a fraction below their best. The arrival of Collins, Dunne and Warnock has thickened the squad but if Agbonlahor and Ashley Young get injured at the same time, the side will lack pace. Their next four league games against Bolton, Burnley, Tottenham and Hull must be won but again I can see them running out of steam.


The biggest disappointment at the moment lies at White Hart Lane.

Emotionally-scarred Tottenham fans will look at this week's Champions League action fearing the competition will never feature their side. Asked in a Radio 5 live interview ahead of the home game against Stoke whether Spurs could break into the top four this season, I boldly predicted they could make the top three! This was based on Liverpool's descent into the trough of mediocrity and a never-ending doubt over Arsenal's defensive durability. I honestly believed this was Spurs' year but that confidence has been shot away. They had bundles of chances against Stoke who defended with their lives but Tottenham showed a disconcerting lack of creativity and method in a clueless last half hour and teams with greater guile would have found a way through. Then against Arsenal, Spurs were outplayed.

In just over a year in charge Harry Redknapp has conjured up top-five form from a side that was bottom and bedraggled when he took over. There is no question the squad has quality. Sebastien Bassong was an excellent summer signing and Peter Crouch will always be a better strike partner for Jermain Defoe or Robbie Keane than Darren Bent, although I feel his Spurs' scoring record was wrongly maligned. Harry has spent well. But that spending means that a total of £160m has been shelled out on the squad. Tangible results are now needed to satisfy chairman Daniel Levy, who has always backed his managers in the transfer market.
Redknapp has reacted angrily to questions about the back-to-back Premier League defeats. Of course he's right to defend the progress the club has made under him and to counter any doubts that the club is on the right track. Two defeats can't wreck a season but he should be honest enough to admit things haven't been right of late.

Harry's greatest strength is that he knows a good footballer when he sees one and he's quick to identify faults. He will know that keeper Heurelho Gomes is too unpredictable, that Ledley King tragically can no longer be relied upon, that Jonathan Woodgate is also too injury-jinxed, that Tom Huddlestone is sometimes prone to slowing the game down to his pace, that the wonderfully competitive Wilson Palacios doesn't pass the ball as well as he should, that the thrilling pace of Aaron Lennon is often misguided and that both David Bentley and Roman Pavlyuchenko have been expensive misfits. Harry recently announced that he loves working with class players on the training ground. If they don't beat much improved Sunderland and Wigan at home, I suspect the following away games at Villa and Everton will prove that he needs to purchase more quality in January.

I still hope Tottenham fulfil my prediction. Many of my closest friends have followed the club for the last four decades with too few fleeting memories of glory, glory days. It's time for the suffering to end - it's gone on too long.

A week before my 11th birthday, 16 December 1970 I was at Ashton Gate for Bristol City's biggest night in 50 years. It was the visit of "mighty" Tottenham Hotspur in the League Cup semi-final first leg. City manager Alan Dicks told all the kids who were connected with the club to stand in the tunnel to study the visiting legends as they walked out on to the pitch. There was the shovel-handed Pat Jennings, the under-rated Cyril Knowles, huge Mike England and World Cup winner Martin Peters alongside Alan Mullery who was later to become a good friend. Steve Perryman was the up-and-coming kid, Alan Gilzean was a god and he scored in a 1-1 draw. Tottenham went on to win the cup and it was a team of football giants straight out of the pages of my Soccer Stars album.

But since then five trophies in 38 years is a poor return. False dawns have been blown away. The storm clouds aren't exactly gathering at the moment, but the future does seem cloudier than it did a month ago. Today I look at Tottenham and ask who the real legends are in this side? How much does each and every one of them really want prolonged, meaningful success for the club over the next decade? The same question can be asked of all the contenders for a place in the elite top four.

It's time to stand up and be counted. Otherwise Liverpool, reeling and punch drunk, could yet stagger off the canvas and, "rope-a-dope" - Ali-style, confound them all. They won't get a better chance than this year.

Jonathan Pearce will be at White Hart Lane on Saturday, commentating for BBC Match of the Day on Tottenham's game with Sunderland.
 

Dougal

Staff
Jun 4, 2004
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As this is in Spurs Chat I'm gonna go for us? Did I win? :) I wish it was that easy :-( The top 4 won't let go that easily, don't be fooled by the table in November, these bastards fight a dirty fight right up until the end as we know only too well and as I had to tell the missus before her Aston Villa side fell to bits before letting the scum back into the top 4 last season. All we can do is be ready to fight for months on end but it is ridiculous (no offence to you miles_64 for bringing us the article :) ) to ask the question now. Such a long long way to go.
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
it's city who will topple Pool, if anyone - but my early season prediction was chelsea man u AFC pool city spurs - and i think that the big 4 will be top 4 at the end of the season still

I was at that semi-final Pearce refers to

we only scraped into the final in extra time from memory (went to the second leg too) and near the end of normal time gerry gow nearly put us out as he had a great close range chance but missed it

we went on to beat villa in the final (my first trip to wembley to see spurs :) - but it was a close run thing both in the semi-final and final
 

Son_Of

SC Supporter
Aug 22, 2008
4,260
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his evaluation of gomes and lennon is way off the mark. tired, repetitive and inaccurate media stereotypes: gomes is a liability, lennon is all pace and no end product...yawn...try watching them play rather than getting your opinions from the last lazy journalist (who also didn't study their games and got his opinions from the last lazy....)
 

WexfordTownSpur

preposition me arse
Aug 2, 2007
2,615
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As this is in Spurs Chat I'm gonna go for us? Did I win? :) I wish it was that easy :-( The top 4 won't let go that easily, don't be fooled by the table in November, these bastards fight a dirty fight right up until the end as we know only too well and as I had to tell the missus before her Aston Villa side fell to bits before letting the scum back into the top 4 last season. All we can do is be ready to fight for months on end but it is ridiculous (no offence to you miles_64 for bringing us the article :) ) to ask the question now. Such a long long way to go.
I think to be fair, the point in writing the article now was to highlight the fact that Liverpool, are NOW in trouble, but when the 10 or so first team members they have out are back in contention it could be a different story - So NOW is the time to take advantage of the situation, build up as big a gap as you can, maybe the gap will also add a mental barrier to the Liverpool comeback!

The Villa and Everton games away are important, yes I know every game is, be must try and get something off them! As was said, lets try and put as much distance between us and Liverpool as possible, we won't get a better chance!
 

Dougal

Staff
Jun 4, 2004
60,376
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I think to be fair, the point in writing the article now was to highlight the fact that Liverpool, are NOW in trouble, but when the 10 or so first team members they have out are back in contention it could be a different story - So NOW is the time to take advantage of the situation, build up as big a gap as you can, maybe the gap will also add a mental barrier to the Liverpool comeback!

The Villa and Everton games away are important, yes I know every game is, be must try and get something off them! As was said, lets try and put as much distance between us and Liverpool as possible, we won't get a better chance!

And I'm saying we can do what we like now but unless we keep it going full throttle until the end of the season this Liverpool stumble will be long forgotten and the same 4 teams will end up top.
 

tony_parkes

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2008
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We've got a crucial month as I said in a previous thread.

Sunderland (home)
Wigan (home)
Villa (away)
Everton (away)

and then United in the cup.

All games are important and the end of November would be too early to completely write a season off but if we were to get 9 points in the league and win at United we'd be very well placed going into the New Year.

It's not just us, Villa have been inconsistant, Everton have really struggled at times, City drawn several games recently and obviously Liverpool too.

Let's hope Wet Spam do us a favour against Villa tonight.

I do agree with the theme of Jonathon Pearce's article though, if Liverpool carry on slipping up and nobody really takes advantage then as the season goes on and they are still in touch with 3/4th place you would fancy them to finish strongly and nick a CL place.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
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I have a feeling Man City will clinch 4th place, Liverpool 5th, and Spurs 6th.
 

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
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I stopped reading after the first few lines about Spurs. He's talking like we've already lost our chance at the top 4 just cos we didn't take our chances against stoke even tho we were without Defoe and Luka and on another day we'd have run out like 4-0 winners and then a dodgy, out of character showing against Goons......hardly broken our season has it!

Gimme a break from this shit!
 

Lucky22

Active Member
Dec 11, 2006
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For one, if anyone is going to focus on breaking Sky's Favourite Four, then Liverpool staying in the CL is imperative! If they get knocked out now it only eases the strain on the players with less games to play and gives them more focus on the league and FA Cup competitions. Also, the dead cat bounce of bringing in a new manager would boost them too!
I'm more than happy for Liverpool to keep muddling through and putting off their problems (like they did when they beat United) only to stagger into another crisis two minutes down the road! That will help us take their place at the top table.
 

DoublePivot

Relegated to Lurker
Jul 1, 2005
8,987
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He who spends most. We were big four when we paid wages in the top 20%. Newcastle and Leeds were in the big four recently when they paid wages top 20%. With City pushing into that top bracket of wage payers, they were always going to knock someone out. Most of us thought it could be Arsenal, but it looks more like Liverpool every week.

Unfortunately, we are in a conundrum. As Yids, we want it to be Arsenal, but as a team that hopes to prey on the fall of the next big team (my guess is United), Arsenal give us hope that decent wages, a good eye for talent and forward thinking gaffer can let us be the ones to join next.

That being said, if we get our injured back, get rid of the party mentality and strengthen smartly in January, we could catch City unprepared due to infighting (that will erupt soon) and sneak a top four this year, despite wages. At that point, we can up our wage bracket in order to stay in the top four. So here's hoping Harry gets them sorted soon and that Rafa doesn't get fired.
 

Adam456

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2005
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For one, if anyone is going to focus on breaking Sky's Favourite Four, then Liverpool staying in the CL is imperative! If they get knocked out now it only eases the strain on the players with less games to play and gives them more focus on the league and FA Cup competitions. Also, the dead cat bounce of bringing in a new manager would boost them too!
I'm more than happy for Liverpool to keep muddling through and putting off their problems (like they did when they beat United) only to stagger into another crisis two minutes down the road! That will help us take their place at the top table.

Well there are a couple of different scenarios here. You would think that staying in the CL would hinder them in terms of tiredness and stretching their slightly lightweight squad. On the other hand a resounding victory tonight might give them a load of confidence going into the next few games and then Gerrard will be back and it might be crisis over.

Another scenario is that they lose tonight (or one of the next) and get eliminated at the group stage. That might not be the straw that breaks the camel's back in terms of their owners (in part because it will cost something like £7-10 million to sack him) but the players might start to see him as a dead man walking and results just tend to continue South when that happens. They would almost certainly replace him if it looks like they're not going to get into CL for next year

On another note if we could get 9 points from Sund, Wig at home and Villa, Everton away I wouldn't care too much if we were knocked out of CC by Manure. League simply MUST take priority
 

Bing

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2008
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I stopped reading after the first few lines about Spurs. He's talking like we've already lost our chance at the top 4 just cos we didn't take our chances against stoke even tho we were without Defoe and Luka and on another day we'd have run out like 4-0 winners and then a dodgy, out of character showing against Goons......hardly broken our season has it!

Gimme a break from this shit!

But such is the competitiveness of this league that two bad results can do that to a team.

I think its another good article that highlights some key points a lot of Spurs fans wish to ignore.....Gomes is a liability, Woodgate and King cannot be relied upon, Lennons pace can be misguided (he's still only a kid though so this doesnt worry me).

If enough people tell you that you've got a tail, there comes a time when you better check it out.
 

PT

North Stand behind Pat's goal.
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May 21, 2004
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I heard that Gerrard could be out for longer than first thought. That possibly means that both Torres and Gerrard will be out, leaving Liverpool headless, like Spurs with our best three players out.
 

Woody10

Reality is only an illusion that occurs due to a l
Jun 8, 2003
405
0
He's right in what he says about now is the time for us to move.

I dont agree with its all cloudy again after one month and nor do i agree with his analysis of Gomes and Lennon!!

There are so many crucial times in a season and i firmly believe the next few fixtures for us are crucial, ie beating the teams around us. Yet Chrimbo is always a tough time because the fixtures come round so fast and before you know it your out the running!

I dont buy "its a long season" stuff, every single game is vital!! Wasn't that long ago we missed out on Europe by a point!! Yes its a marathon not a sprint but every point is needed!!

Need a good month now and Modders back for chrimbo period then see where we are for a 2 month sprint for the 4th spot!! COYS
 

3Dnata

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2008
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If pool get through to the knockout stages of the CL I'd say us ,City and Villa should finish above them. This isn't saying pool are rubbish just those clubs have improved.
I think it will be touch and go if they just have the league to concentrate on.
 

the watson

COYSC
Apr 21, 2007
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I don't see how he has failed to mention how we have reached our position with 1 centre-back if we're lucky and our most creative player out for our most crucial games. Also we have already played the big 4.

Given our situation we SHOULD be battling for top half of the table let alone top 4, but we have come out strong and our luck can only get better. Villa don't seem to be able to sustain form for a whole season and citeh still have Hughes. I'm confident we can do this with a turn around in luck but should probably keep more quiet about it, of course.
 

tony_parkes

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2008
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A Liverpool supporting mate told me about a week ago that they would win 2 trophies this season.

Well the Champions League has nearly gone, the Carling Cup has defo gone, the league looks unlikely.

There's always the FA Cup and then I realised he must have meant the Europa League as the other one.:whistle:

If they go into the Europa what team will Rafa play? You can't imagine Torres and Gerrard being happy about playing in that, hopefully Everton will knock them out.:grin:
 

double0

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2006
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We'll all now when the seasons done...atm everyones beating everyone.

Aston Villa lost at Wet Spam.
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
32,568
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We'll all now when the seasons done...atm everyones beating everyone.

Aston Villa lost at Wet Spam.

For once I actively wanted the Spammers to win...and they did the business:beer:

I have been making this point since the start of the season. I have a feew quid on us breaking the Big 4. It is a bit of an optimistic bet, but I remind people that there are is now a Big 4, AND a 'slightly smaller 4' whoa re closing the gap (don't be fooled, Everton are better than they are showing at the mo). IMHO each of these 8 teams is capable of taking points off of the other 7 of those teams(results have borne this out).
There are also any number of teams lower down who are gonna spring 'shocks' (as has been borne out by results).
I don't actually think we are clearly the 4th best team in the league. I do think that if the top of the dicision stays relatively bunched-up we have a fighters chance (and it could just come down to luck).
I also believe that we benefitted from all of the attention being on Citeh at the start of the campaign. Folk kinda lost sight of the fact that we have a very decent squad, assembled at considerable cost.
Look at the table (it doesn't lie) - in spite of recent, er, disappointments, we are still nicely tucked in there.
Chelsea/United at the weekend - more points will be dropped.
The only thang I will say for definite is that the next 4 league games are possibly the most important games with have had for 20 years. 10 points would be, like, flippin' amazin' COYS
 
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