Who was the best player?

[onthetwo]

well I guess that's better than having an argument soley based on bullshit

you compare great teams by their trophy haul, you compare great players by their skill and ability with a football not who they played with

there's plenty of examples from pros like Pele, Wenger, Maradona etc... stating Hoddle was an out of this world talent or the like but anyway you obviously have a hard time admitting when you are wrong so I'll refrain from wasting anymore of my time with you on this subject

not sure why this is so hard to grasp and ironically, the players you mentioned above have a stack of World Cup winners medals....so i guess you're right, memories of nice passes are far better when youre old and grey than a room full of medals.

 

[Luka Lennon]

not sure why this is so hard to grasp and ironically, the players you mentioned above have a stack of World Cup winners medals....so i guess you're right, memories of nice passes are far better when youre old and grey than a room full of medals.

I happen to think good memories are far more important than a room full of material shite but hey that's just me :shrug:

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Phil Neal
League Championship: 1976, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1986
UEFA Cup: 1976
European Cup: 1977, 1978, 1981, 1984
Football League Cup: 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984

George Best
League Championship: 1965, 1967
European Cup: 1968

:lol:

 

[Partizan]

Never saw Hoddle, or Gazza, so my choice is Paul Scholes

 

[StartingPrice]

To be honest SP, I wrote my post without reading any of the comments so it wasn't a point against you, just my feelings on that statement in general. I put it in my argument because I think it's an important point as I think if you put Anderton's chin and Ribbery's scars on his face he'd still have been England's captain and notched up as many caps as he did because he's a fantastic footballer, who was/is 100% committed to the game of football. His attitude to the game coupled with his ability makes him a quality quality player. He comes third because I think Scholes was the best English player of his generation. I'd put Beckham above Lampard, Rooney and Gerrard, because he was as important to his club, but he made a greater impact in the CL and international stage.

No problem, good buddy.
Just wanted to make it clear I wasn't in any way suggesting that Beckam was on a par with the Ginger Pele:grin:

Despite what OneTwoWhatever thinks, GHodd was easily the most gifted player I have ever seen, and to suggest that he won less medals than Scoles and therefore Scholes is the more sublime player is fatuous:duh: To repeat myself, Scholes was more consistent and more 'reliable', so if that is the criteria you are sing, good for you; but GHodd was literally sublime in a way tha few players are in a century of World Football, and that is the criterion I am using.

 

[onthetwo]

I happen to think good memories are far more important than a room full of material shite but hey that's just me :shrug:

Is that you Arsene?

 

[Luka Lennon]

Is that you Arsene?

Is that you Madonna?

 

[DogsOfWar]

For me Hoddle had the best footballing brain and vision. He was an artist, someone who could produce an act of footballing genius. He had an aura about him that only the very best do.

Gazza was the best natural footballer who had a larger than life personality that imposed itself on games. Had he not self destructed he could have been one of the greats. But I always felt his game was about instinct rather than a more cerebral understanding of the beautiful game.

Beckham had the best delivery I have ever seen from any player. This doesn't make him a great footballer but it does make him an incredibly effective one. I've watched many a game where he puts a perfect cross onto someone's head for the winner. I don't think he was a natural player, just the kind that spent hour after hour perfecting a skill until he was the best in the business at it.

Scholes, on the other hand, has a good footballing brain, a natural ability, and great technical skills so I'd argue he was the best all-round player.

So I'm with StartingPrice, it all comes down to the individuals interpretation of what the best is. And for me it's the artistry of Hoddle.

As for the argument about the roomful of medals being more important, I'd agree that it was for a player, but as a spectator it's not so relevant.
Hoddle's volley against United, his chip against Watford, or when he breaks from the middle goes one on one, dummies, watches the keeper fall on his arse and strokes it into an empty net.
These are moments that have stayed in my mind since childhood, and will never be replaced by winning trophies as there is more to life for me than just a result.

 

[lilywhitecurtis]

If you take off the Spurs tinted glasses you can see that Ferguson built one of the most successful club teams ever around Paul Scholes in midfield. Like many before have stated, England teams should have been built around him, the same goes for Hoddle.

For me I love Scholes because he's the opposite of Gazza persona and the Gazza cult, he's the quiet campaigner that every team needs, but he's still got fantastic tekkers and scores goals. I think he's the greatest midfielder of my generation. That being said I missed the Hoddle years so perhaps my vote is unfair.

 

[garyhopkins]

Glenn Hoddle is the reason I support Spurs. He was just the most amazingly gifted English player I've ever seen.
His passing ability was second to none but it was his phenomenal shooting that is most embedded in my greatest memories. There were so many spectacular goals; the scissor kick volley against ManU in the League Cup, the sublime chip against Watford, the cracker on his international debut and the goalies punt to forwards header to his volley against Forest. Un******* believable stuff.
And he could play in goal! The 1980 Cup tie at OT when Milija Aleksic pulled off the save of the season and then got stretchered off leaving Hoddle in goal and us down to ten men only for Ossie to score with a delicate chip in extra time has to remain one of my favourite all time games.

 

[Bill_Oddie]

With all due respect to Hoddle and Gazza both players with an abundance of talent, I actually went for Paul Scholes. The linchpin in one of the best midfield's that English club football has ever seen, an unbelievably consistent performer who has achieved almost everything you can possibly achieve in English football and remarkably avoided the majority of the spotlight.

1) Scholes
2) Hoddle
3) Gazza
4) Beckham

Absolutely agree. Although it's a very valid point about fewer people being aware of Hoddle's mastery thanks to the relatively lesser tv around. All four are top class, mind. They'd all more than get into the current team, and we're hardly poor.

 

[onthetwo]

If you take off the Spurs tinted glasses you can see that Ferguson built one of the most successful club teams ever around Paul Scholes in midfield. Like many before have stated, England teams should have been built around him, the same goes for Hoddle.

For me I love Scholes because he's the opposite of Gazza persona and the Gazza cult, he's the quiet campaigner that every team needs, but he's still got fantastic tekkers and scores goals. I think he's the greatest midfielder of my generation. That being said I missed the Hoddle years so perhaps my vote is unfair.

Well, at least youve restored my faith in the objectivity of the people using this website. To compare Gazza, who admittedly set our world on fire for a couple of seasons, winning one medal in the process, to Scholes who has dominated the Premiership for God knows how long and has the medals to prove it, is somehow a bit of a joke as far as im concerned.
In fact, its the kind of comparison that makes other fans laugh at us in my opnion though im clearly in the minority on all of this.

 

[StartingPrice]

If you take off the Spurs tinted glasses you can see that Ferguson built one of the most successful club teams ever around Paul Scholes in midfield. Like many before have stated, England teams should have been built around him, the same goes for Hoddle.

For me I love Scholes because he's the opposite of Gazza persona and the Gazza cult, he's the quiet campaigner that every team needs, but he's still got fantastic tekkers and scores goals. I think he's the greatest midfielder of my generation. That being said I missed the Hoddle years so perhaps my vote is unfair.

Yeah, Younglings shouldn't be allowed to vote:grin:

Well, at least youve restored my faith in the objectivity of the people using this website. To compare Gazza, who admittedly set our world on fire for a couple of seasons, winning one medal in the process, to Scholes who has dominated the Premiership for God knows how long and has the medals to prove it, is somehow a bit of a joke as far as im concerned.
In fact, its the kind of comparison that makes other fans laugh at us in my opnion though im clearly in the minority on all of this.

What, like other fans aren't biased towards their own team and players:duh:

Actually, my vote for GHodd has nothing to do with bias. Do you understand the argument that this vote depends on the crieria attached? Do you also understand that a vote for one isn't actually a deprecation of the others?

Oh, and p.s. who cares what other teams fans think of us...their opinions are hardly objective, are they:shrug:

 

[mattyspurs]

For me Hoddle had the best footballing brain and vision. He was an artist, someone who could produce an act of footballing genius. He had an aura about him that only the very best do.

Gazza was the best natural footballer who had a larger than life personality that imposed itself on games. Had he not self destructed he could have been one of the greats. But I always felt his game was about instinct rather than a more cerebral understanding of the beautiful game.

Beckham had the best delivery I have ever seen from any player. This doesn't make him a great footballer but it does make him an incredibly effective one. I've watched many a game where he puts a perfect cross onto someone's head for the winner. I don't think he was a natural player, just the kind that spent hour after hour perfecting a skill until he was the best in the business at it.

Scholes, on the other hand, has a good footballing brain, a natural ability, and great technical skills so I'd argue he was the best all-round player.

So I'm with StartingPrice, it all comes down to the individuals interpretation of what the best is. And for me it's the artistry of Hoddle.

As for the argument about the roomful of medals being more important, I'd agree that it was for a player, but as a spectator it's not so relevant.
Hoddle's volley against United, his chip against Watford, or when he breaks from the middle goes one on one, dummies, watches the keeper fall on his arse and strokes it into an empty net.
These are moments that have stayed in my mind since childhood, and will never be replaced by winning trophies as there is more to life for me than just a result.

The bold statement is what sums this thread up for me perfectly and is exactly why Hoddle edges it. These things happened when I was a kid and are what made my love for Spurs at an early age, All of those things you mention were so effortless, and I still remember a perplexed Steve Sherwood wondering what Hoddle had just done to him, he couldn't quite believe it.

Gazza could have been top of this list, had Alex Ferguson got his way, but, thankfully for us he didn't, and we have the memories and not Man Utd fans.

Beckham as you say, perfected his art by hours of extra training, Scholes is one of the best the PL has ever seen, but for all of his genius football brain, he still has that naughtiness to his game, the late and bad tackles, which for me, shows he lacks something to be the best.

 

[StartingPrice]

The bold statement is what sums this thread up for me perfectly and is exactly why Hoddle edges it. These things happened when I was a kid and are what made my love for Spurs at an early age, All of those things you mention were so effortless, and I still remember a perplexed Steve Sherwood wondering what Hoddle had just done to him, he couldn't quite believe it.

Gazza could have been top of this list, had Alex Ferguson got his way, but, thankfully for us he didn't, and we have the memories and not Man Utd fans.

Beckham as you say, perfected his art by hours of extra training, Scholes is one of the best the PL has ever seen, but for all of his genius football brain, he still has that naughtiness to his game, the late and bad tackles, which for me, shows he lacks something to be the best.

I agree with everything you say (as I usually do) but for this. I just do not efuse the 'things woulda been different...Fergie...Gazza' myth. Gazza would have been esactly the same wherever he played, and under whoever he played. The circumstances might have been different but in one way or another I genuinely believe he would have buggered himself up, gone off the rails, or buggered himself up AND gone off the rails wherever he was.

 

[mattyspurs]

I agree with everything you say (as I usually do) but for this. I just do not efuse the 'things woulda been different...Fergie...Gazza' myth. Gazza would have been esactly the same wherever he played, and under whoever he played. The circumstances might have been different but in one way or another I genuinely believe he would have buggered himself up, gone off the rails, or buggered himself up AND gone off the rails wherever he was.

I am not saying he wouldn't have still buggered himself up SP, I am certainly not advocating that Red nose would have been a better babysitter than El Tel.

All I am saying is that he would have maybe, and only maybe, become an even more higher profile footballer, and maybe a better footballer, if that was atall possible, by joining up with Man Utd, for the start of the premiership, when they began there world domination.

 

[DiscoD1882]

1)Hoddle
2)Hoodle
3)Hoddle
4)Hoddle

Quite simply the reason i love football. the reason I wear the number 10 shirt. the reason I play footbal the way i do. The best english\Spurs player i have seen.

And he and Waddle filmed their diamond lights video at my infant school!

 

[AngerManagement]

I am not old enough to have seen Hoddle, athough obviously I have seen various videos and hightlight reels showcasing his immense talent.

I discount him from my vote however by virtue of my never having seen him play a full match or witnessed him play live.

Gazza has the advantage of being at his very best around the time I was first able to watch football (and be conciously aware of what is actually going on) a time at which I was most enchanted by the sport and the club (let's face it at that age what else did I have in my life?)

in 89 and 90/91 seasons Gazza was arguably the best player in the world (probably the only time since I have been a Spurs supporter we could even claim to have someone close to being the best in the world)

He was amazing, his skill was sublime and his power of running and desire to win simply pushed him to the top (he almost single handedly won us the FA cup in 91 and his World cup 90 displays for England are still iconic to this day)

I was close to voted for Scholes, for the longevity of his career and what he has won/achieved in the game but we will always value a genius above a consistant winner when we analyise them indivdually (even if the other could be more effective over the course of a career)

But Gazza was my idol as a junior school child and he was still showing his magic in an England shirt in 96 when I was in secondary school.

Spurs bias and my loved for a genius/character means I voted for Gazza


......yes it was the moaty line that clinched my vote

 

[Son_Of]

beckham? i'll usually stand up for him against people who think he was 'just a sleb, not a footballer'. but better hoddle? that is plain silly

 

[The Apprentice]

Beckham shouldn't be anywhere near that list. He wouldn't even be in the Top 50 Prem players of all time.

Scholes is an absolute genius, best midfielder the Premiership has seen in my book.

Gazza was all potential unfulfilled.

Never saw Hoddle that much but he was obviously a God among Spurs fans.

Scholes by a gnats whisker.