World Cup Discussion Thread - Day 2 (15 June)

[richard_gleeson]

I have no idea how Portugal won the Euros. They were so poor for 90% of the time.

 

[cwy21]

There has never been a World Cup winner from one of the less fancied continents even as far back as the 30s when the game was barely monied at all, and there're reasons for that.

It probably doesn't help that the "less fancied" continents were basically ignored until 1982. Before than, Africa, Asia, and North America each got one team. Are really really surprised that football has struggled to develop there?

 

[werty]

You can criticise both. It's not an unfair attack to say the UAE who lost 3-0 to the Saudi's in qualifying wouldn't contribute much to the WC. Fifa wants 16 groups of three teams, with the top two teams qualifying for the knockout stage. A group with the UAE would be pointless - beat the #77 ranked team in the world and you qualify for the knockouts. Where is the entertainment in that?

Spain were far and away the best team in the World for about 6 years, some say one of the best ever, but also one of the least entertaining teams. How many games have we seen between big clubs that have been snoozefests? Quality does not equal entertainment. You're just as likely to get an exciting game between two bad teams as you are with two big teams. One of the biggest mismatches in recent years was Brazil vs North Korea, yet Brazil struggled against them and it was one of my favourite matches to watch in that tournament.

 

[rez9000]

Simply because I don't believe there's any way for football to reduce that gulf in quality enough. It's not like club football where we used to see so many clubs compete before money ran away with it. There has never been a World Cup winner from one of the less fancied continents even as far back as the 30s when the game was barely monied at all, and there're reasons for that.

But that's still no reason to preclude anyone from competing. Again, we know that in the FA Cup, the likelihood of Guiseley winning it are infinitesimally small. So should we tell them not to bother showing up for their games? They take pride in seeing how far they can get. The same is true of the weaker nations in the World Cup.

I support Iran because I come from an Iranian family. Even though England are my primary team, if you said to me that Iran was precluded from competing, I'd be less likely to watch the World Cup. One of the beauties of having the smaller teams in there is that sometimes they can shock you. You're working from a premise that every game involving a small side is a foregone conclusion whereas we know that it isn't. How about South Korea beating Italy in 2002? Or Cameroon beating Argentina in 1990? Algeria beating Germany in 1982? Scotland, yes SCOTLAND beating Holland in 1978 or North Korea beating Italy in 1966? No game is a foregone conclusion, so you can't argue that either.

But let's say that every game with a smaller team, (notwithstanding that you've got the problem of exactly where that bar is set anyway) WAS a foregone conclusion, why bother having a group stage at all? We just select which teams go through to the Second Round and it would save the federations from the small countries from bothering with things like equipment, training, flights, hotels and the like. Just tell them that they didn't get out of the group stage before the tournament starts and they can then just stay at home.

 

[cwy21]

"Spanish players not singing their national anthem" tweets incoming.

 

[Saoirse]

It probably doesn't help that the "less fancied" continents were basically ignored until 1982. Before than, Africa, Asia, and North America each got one team. Are really really surprised that football has struggled to develop there?

And between then and 1966 nobody except Mexico had even got out of the group stage.

 

[rez9000]

Can you imagine? If Spain and Portugal cancel each other out, Iran could top the group going into the second game!

 

[Marty]

"Spanish players not singing their national anthem" tweets incoming.

Every two years, like clockwork.

 

[Saoirse]

But that's still no reason to preclude anyone from competing. Again, we know that in the FA Cup, the likelihood of Guiseley winning it are infinitesimally small. So should we tell them not to bother showing up for their games? They take pride in seeing how far they can get. The same is true of the weaker nations in the World Cup.

I support Iran because I come from an Iranian family. Even though England are my primary team, if you said to me that Iran was precluded from competing, I'd be less likely to watch the World Cup. One of the beauties of having the smaller teams in there is that sometimes they can shock you. You're working from a premise that every game involving a small side is a foregone conclusion whereas we know that it isn't. How about South Korea beating Italy in 2002? Or Cameroon beating Argentina in 1990? Algeria beating Germany in 1982? Scotland, yes SCOTLAND beating Holland in 1978 or North Korea beating Italy in 1966? No game is a foregone conclusion, so you can't argue that either.

But let's say that every game with a smaller team, (notwithstanding that you've got the problem of exactly where that bar is set anyway) WAS a foregone conclusion, why bother having a group stage at all? We just select which teams go through to the Second Round and it would save the federations from the small countries from bothering with things like equipment, training, flights, hotels and the like. Just tell them that they didn't get out of the group stage before the tournament starts and they can then just stay at home.

I've never said Asia should have no places. But it should probably be fewer and certainly not more. Iran obviously won their group, beat some decent sides, deserve their place. Australia probably don't. We obviously don't give Guiseley an automatic pass to Round Three against Man Utd - they have to earn that through some legitimately tough qualifying rounds.

 

[Marty]

"Spanish players not singing their national anthem" tweets incoming.

 

[tiger666]

Social media doing it's finest work of making mugs out of people.

 

[rez9000]

And between then and 1966 nobody except Mexico had even got out of the group stage.

I think you'll find that in 1966, North Korea qualified above Italy and Chile in their group, Peru qualified from their group in 1970, Austria and Peru topped their groups in 1978, and Northern Ireland topped their group in 1982

 

[Marty]

Social media doing it's finest work of making mugs out of people.

It's brilliant.

And .. penalty to Ronaldo! Nacho's fault, looks correct.

 

[glacierSpurs]

Ronaldo at his shameful best..

 

[tiger666]

Diving fuck

 

[teok]

 

[rez9000]

I've never said Asia should have no places. But it should probably be fewer and certainly not more. Iran obviously won their group, beat some decent sides, deserve their place. Australia probably don't. We obviously don't give Guiseley an automatic pass to Round Three against Man Utd - they have to earn that through some legitimately tough qualifying rounds.

But you're suggesting that some sides do not have the right to compete because they haven't faced strong sides in qualifying. What do you want them to do, move their countries to a different continent so they can face proper opposition in qualifying?

 

[werty]

Just realised I forgot to do a prediction for this game

 

[hughy]

Glad there was an early goal TBH.

 

[teok]

Game on.