World Cup Discussion Thread - Day 20 (3 July)

[johnbowel]

Yeah, like that dirty South American diver last night, Heraldo Maguirez

I think there could be some bleed here from separate discussions and thought it was a risk posting South American given you were trying to make a point on that. FWIW, I’m not really addressing that, and I think that the view that South American teams are far more extreme in their cheating than England and that it’s ingrained into their footballing culture, is not incompatible with the view that England fans have double standards in their judgements (which I don’t agree with, but not relevant). Otherwise you’d have to think South American teams were cleaner than England or whoever, in order to justify condemning Maguire’s dive.
Maguire’s was bad. I don’t buy into the excusal of it via his apologising straight away - he only apologised because he knew VAR would catch him otherwise. I have to say though I would have loved him to get a penalty and us to score, not because it would have been right or ok but because it would have been poetic justice given the behaviour of Colombia throughout and because I’m a vindictive bastard when it comes to cheats. And i’m Pleased our players reacted, rather than initiating that stuff, in a more streetwise fashion because I’ve grown up watching better England teams, cheated out of major competitions. It would have been absolutely dishonourable and shitty and I would hate us to do that kind of thing ever... except when it would be the thing that would most enrage and hurt a team that had behaved disgustingly and far worse throughout.

I actually think the whole thing of who is dirtier is irrelevant: it’s the cheating that needs cracking down on - who is doing it is doesn’t matter. If there are instances where South American players are judged as cheating more readily than english ones, it’s because that has been the reality in general for a long time. The only reason I mentioned it is because it’s been so embodied by Neymar, Colombia, and as much as I loved their performance the other day, Uruguay, and Suarez in particular, and as I was typing about it, they were the teams, incidents and players that came to mind as being the only thing marring this tournament.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You can always count on BC to deliberately post something he knows will be controversial when things are going slow on the forum. Always been the same.

Actually, I felt it was a valid discussion seeing as how a big chunk of last night's posts was moaning about Neymar and other players exaggerating things to get players into trouble.

But thanks for your two bobs worth. I hope you feel your snarky comment hit it's target audience.

 

[Trix]

Actually, I felt it was a valid discussion seeing as how a big chunk of last night's posts was moaning about Neymar and other players exaggerating things to get players into trouble.

But thanks for your two bobs worth. I hope you feel your snarky comment hit it's target audience.

Yep

 

[mpickard2087]

And that shows the limitations of England's options.

I agree that Kane can pick a pass. But he's still England's best finisher by a country mile. And, for reasons of pure pragmatism, I think he has to play up top.

I agree on your judgement of Rashford & RLC, but I'd rather have RLC in a midfield already containing the creatively limited Henderson than the equally creatively limited Delph or Dier.

The main virtue of Dele up top with Kane is that they have an understanding as club teammates, and Dele's goalscoring record is exceptional. Against a bus parking Swedish team, it may be a little flick or an unlucky bounce off a defender that produces an opportunity. But Harry and Dele have both shown that they're goalscorers, and one goal may be enough given Sweden's lack of attcking potency.

I wouldn't envisage Kane playing exclusively off the front, I'd still expect him to be playing a substantial role right up top..... Just that it gives him a little license to drop off the front and roam, whilst still maintaining a centre forward in the box who is occupying defenders when he does do that (plus you then have midfield runners from deep also).

 

[Coyboy]

How far from England we measure the country of the player concerned you mean?

No. Stop with this false xenophobic narrative. It's wrong- from my point of view anyway.

 

[Indisguise]

 

[Bus-Conductor]

No. Stop with this false xenophobic narrative. It's wrong- from my point of view anyway.

I was aiming more at hypocritical/partizan than xenophobic originally. We see the same with Spurs all the time.

 

[Coyboy]

So it’s ok to be a **** if the other team are being a bit ****y?

Hmmm...

My point wasn’t necessarily to measure who scored highest on the ****ometer our of Henderson and Neymar, but to point out hypocrisy in here from people who get apoplectic when any foreigners do it, but when an English player does it, don’t even mention it, or claim he’s “entitled”.

Is it the same person/people doing it?

 

[Coyboy]

I was aiming more at hypocritical/partizan than xenophobic originally. We see the same with Spurs all the time.

Like who and when?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Like who and when?

Who and when England or who and when Spurs ? Who and when England, you had glaring examples the las couple of nights, loads of people were howling about Neymar exaggerating something, but today people are saying Henderson got head butted and was entitled to fall down clutching his whole face.

You know this double standard happens with Spurs in the same way.

 

[tiger666]

Who and when England or who and when Spurs ? Who and when England, you had glaring examples the las couple of nights, loads of people were howling about Neymar exaggerating something, but today people are saying Henderson got head butted and was entitled to fall down clutching his whole face.

You know this double standard happens with Spurs in the same way.

Pretty funny to see you talk about double standards. You're as guilty as anyone on here when it's about a player you don't rate, Walker, versus a player you do, Trippier. You're always pulling Dier and Alli up in matchday threads for things you never mention when they're done by another player.

 

[Coyboy]

Who and when England or who and when Spurs ? Who and when England, you had glaring examples the las couple of nights, loads of people were howling about Neymar exaggerating something, but today people are saying Henderson got head butted and was entitled to fall down clutching his whole face.

You know this double standard happens with Spurs in the same way.

What particular people, i.e. posters here, are showing double standards? Who on the one hand criticised Neymar and then condoned or even praised Henderson?

Ditto re Spurs. I don't know that.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Pretty funny to see you talk about double standards. You're as guilty as anyone on here when it's about a player you don't rate, Walker, versus a player you do, Trippier. You're always pulling Dier and Alli up in matchday threads for things you never mention when they're done by another player.

And even funnier is that you're happy to accuse me of that, but then go and do exactly the same. Go figure.

 

[tiger666]

And even funnier is that you're happy to accuse me of that, but then go and do exactly the same. Go figure.

You know damn well you're guilty of it, as am I. So I don't get why you think you have some moral high ground.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Irony fan Maradona blasts England’s ‘monumental theft’

https://www.football365.com/news/irony-fan-diego-maradona-blasts-englands-monumental-theft

Ha...

 

[tiger666]

Irony fan Maradona blasts England’s ‘monumental theft’

https://www.football365.com/news/irony-fan-diego-maradona-blasts-englands-monumental-theft

Ha...

Well he's right on one thing:

“It is the man who decides who the referee is who is to blame. A man like that (Geiger) should not be put in charge of a game of that magnitude."

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You know damn well you're guilty of it, as am I. So I don't get why you think you have some moral high ground.

If Trippier had done what Henderson had done, for England or Spurs, I still wouldn't have said it was justifiable and would have criticised him, and I wouldn't have spent the whole of last night saying what Neymar did was disgusting and then if Trippier did it it was OK.

I don't know if that gives me any kind of moral high ground (I’m not even sure where you get the idea I was claiming any) but in the moral cesspit that is football forum punditry, it gives me a punchers chance maybe.

 

[Anurag Jo]

Irony fan Maradona blasts England’s ‘monumental theft’

https://www.football365.com/news/irony-fan-diego-maradona-blasts-englands-monumental-theft

Ha...

Seriously what an idiot.

 

[rossdapep]

It's coming home...........

I will start to really believe if we start to look more efficient and effective in the final third. Other than the first half against Tunisia the movement and passing hasn't been so great in that respect. I know we put 6 past Panama but most of that was down to our ability from set-pieces and Panama being incredibly stupid.

It looks like the mental strength is finally developing but we should have put Colombia out of sight last if we had been more incisive, shown more composure and taken better care of the ball in certain situations.

Against Sweden we will need to reach another level because they won't give us an inch and could cause us problems if they get a set-piece high up the pitch. I'm hoping we can get Kane in more GS situations, hope he can get into a fresh condition for it because we really really need him.

 

[King of Otters]

Irony fan Maradona blasts England’s ‘monumental theft’

https://www.football365.com/news/irony-fan-diego-maradona-blasts-englands-monumental-theft

Ha...

Why does Maradona love Colombia so much?