Would you be happy if...

[talkshowhost86]

I would chop my legs off to win 20m on the lottery if i believed that
a) That is definitely the guaranteed way to win the lottery
b) they would grow back in a couple of years

But the correlation is clearly ridiculous and I'd look a right plum when my odds werent increased upon doing it.

The correlation isn't that ridiculous here though is it? Teams have won championships and indeed Champions League trophies by playing very very dull football.

 

[Kendall]

Holtby, Sandro, Townsend, Kane, Carroll, Rose, Sigurdsson, Bale? Yes a couple of those were loans but AVB has to take some credit surely?

Sigurdsson isn't better than he was at Swansea. Sandro isn't better than he was under Harry, Kane and Rose have improved out on loan, Bale dictated his own position to AVB and Townsend improved under Harry, last year, on loan. If Lennon hadn't been injured, Townsend wouldn't have even been playing this year.

Walker and Naughton have gone backwards, Caulker went backwards, Lennon has gone backwards, Dempsey went backwards, Parker went backwards, BAE went backwards, Paulinho has gone backwards after a good start, Eriksen has gone backwards after a good start, Lamela hasn't settled, Soldado doesn't look half the player he was at Valencia, Adebayor went backwards spectacularly.

 

[CowInAComa]

The correlation isn't that ridiculous here though is it? Teams have won championships and indeed Champions League trophies by playing very very dull football.

who won the league playing very dull football? In what country.

Surely that is the exception not the norm and isnt the shining example of the best or optimum way to be successful.

My issue is not that it cant be successful, any style can be successful, but why go down that route when we dont have to? Do we really need to grind out performances like that against the Hulls of this world to be successful..

 

[mattyspurs]

To keep TSH's sanity intact, if we won it playing the style of football we are currently playing then yes, I would be over the moon.

But it won't happen.

 

[WestBelfast Spurs]

Sigurdsson isn't better than he was at Swansea. Sandro isn't better than he was under Harry, Kane and Rose have improved out on loan, Bale dictated his own position to AVB and Townsend improved under Harry, last year, on loan. If Lennon hadn't been injured, Townsend wouldn't have even been playing this year.

Walker and Naughton have gone backwards, Caulker went backwards, Lennon has gone backwards, Dempsey went backwards, Parker went backwards, BAE went backwards, Paulinho has gone backwards after a good start, Eriksen has gone backwards after a good start, Lamela hasn't settled, Soldado doesn't look half the player he was at Valencia, Adebayor went backwards spectacularly.

you're a glass half empty kind of guy aren't you

 

[talkshowhost86]

who won the league playing very dull football? In what country.

Surely that is the exception not the norm and isnt the shining example of the best or optimum way to be successful.

My issue is not that it cant be successful, any style can be successful, but why go down that route when we dont have to? Do we really need to grind out performances like that against the Hulls of this world to be successful..

Relatively recently Chelsea have won both the league and Champions League playing very boring football. They did it more successfully than we currently are, but it was eventually both very effective and very turgid.

I think we are all in agreement that if we could win the league whilst playing fantastic football then that would be the best option. My question was how pragmatic Spurs fans would be willing to be if it meant us winning the league.

 

[DiscoD1882]

No!! I dont ever want to see us win the league.


What would I have to moan about to my grandchildren.....?

 

[Spurger King]

Sigurdsson isn't better than he was at Swansea. Sandro isn't better than he was under Harry, Kane and Rose have improved out on loan, Bale dictated his own position to AVB and Townsend improved under Harry, last year, on loan. If Lennon hadn't been injured, Townsend wouldn't have even been playing this year.

Walker and Naughton have gone backwards, Caulker went backwards, Lennon has gone backwards, Dempsey went backwards, Parker went backwards, BAE went backwards, Paulinho has gone backwards after a good start, Eriksen has gone backwards after a good start, Lamela hasn't settled, Soldado doesn't look half the player he was at Valencia, Adebayor went backwards spectacularly.

It does seem a bit worrying when you put it like that. You could probably add Vertonghen and Lloris to that list of players that seem to have become steadily worse.

As I said in the match thread last night, I'm starting to doubt whether AVB will last the season. My crystal ball tells me that the crap performances will continue, but the results won't...which will leave us cast adrift from the race for champions league spots. No point in sugar coating it - he failed last season by finishing in a lower position than Harry was able to manage (and the record points total is irrelevant if you actually think about it). If we don't make champions league this season AVB would have failed again. Only a cup win would appease the fans in that situation.

We're three points off the top, yet the whole mood around the club seems gloomy. We're playing horrible football, our new players are struggling to get going, the atmosphere is getting worse with every game, and the manager is focusing on the home supporters instead of the rather shite performances of his team.

I'm not saying I want AVB gone. I just think there are a lot of things that aren't right at the club at the moment, and if they aren't resolved soon, AVB's chickens will come home to roost.

 

[UncleBuck]

Where have you been? This is SC. The moaning will NEVER stop.

But to answer your question, I would take a title win under any circumstances, playing any sort of football.

....and then we can all moan about it after eh

 

[CowInAComa]

Relatively recently Chelsea have won both the league and Champions League playing very boring football. They did it more successfully than we currently are, but it was eventually both very effective and very turgid.

I think we are all in agreement that if we could win the league whilst playing fantastic football then that would be the best option. My question was how pragmatic Spurs fans would be willing to be if it meant us winning the league.

Still not the usual is it though..
but sure ok. and if you could guarantee that I wouldnt necessarily say no for a short term quick fix.

my issue is that i dont see our results this season as vindication of the system we are playing. I think if you look at the teams we have played and the players we have in comparison to those teams we should be able to beat them.

It seems to me people are seeing our improved results playing this style of football and assuming it is the deciding factor. 2 + 2 = 5.

The biggest overall factor in our improved results is not the system but the fact we have the best squad of players we have ever had. We arent punching above our weight or needing to fight a rearguard action. We can afford to give them hell occasionally.

 

[talkshowhost86]

It does seem a bit worrying when you put it like that. You could probably add Vertonghen and Lloris to that list of players that seem to have become steadily worse.

As I said in the match thread last night, I'm starting to doubt whether AVB will last the season. My crystal ball tells me that the crap performances will continue, but the results won't...which will leave us cast adrift from the race for champions league spots. No point in sugar coating it - he failed last season by finishing in a lower position than Harry was able to manage (and the record points total is irrelevant if you actually think about it). If we don't make champions league this season AVB would have failed again. Only a cup win would appease the fans in that situation.

We're three points off the top, yet the whole mood around the club seems gloomy. We're playing horrible football, our new players are struggling to get going, the atmosphere is getting worse with every game, and the manager is focusing on the home supporters instead of the rather shite performances of his team.

I'm not saying I want AVB gone. I just think there are a lot of things that aren't right at the club at the moment, and if they aren't resolved soon, AVB's chickens will come home to roost.

I think that's all very true, and I'm not trying to necessarily defend AVB.

Personally I think the team generally needs more time to gel, but at the same time I agree that if he doesn't finish top 4 this year then that is a failure and he would rightly be under pressure.

The next month is going to be critical I think in shaping our season because as you say it's a little bit in flux at the moment. I'd say we've only really had one bad result (losing at Arsenal isn't good but can hardly be said to be unexpected) and we're in the top 4, but everything doesn't seem quite right for whatever reason.

 

[Ironskullll]

...we won the league playing the style of football that we currently play?

I think we can all agree that we're not the most scintillating team to watch at the moment, but at the same time I don't think our high win percentage under AVB is a coincidence. I think the amount of possession we have means that we're always more likely to win than lose and if we carry on playing this way I can see a lot of 1-0 wins during the season.

But if it was enough to take us to the title, would we as Spurs fans be happy?

Is a title win the most important thing?

Is playing 'the Tottenham way' more important even if it means less success?

I'm not asking for a debate on whether we are likely to win the league playing this way, but more whether this current attack on our style of football from some areas would stop if we started to look like title contenders.

Yes, because it would mean they had become better at it. At present they aren't good enough at it, which is one of the reasons it isn't entertaining. They are ultra cautious going forward because they are also very vulnerable on the break and because they take too long to work openings.. But if they were to continue to chalk up 60%, 70% possession stats along with similar territorial advantage but get the goals figure up whilst keeping the conceded figure low then that is how they would win it, and that would make me happy.

 

[harry's chin]

i would be happy, just wish we were going into the last 5 mins with a 2 goal cusion rather than 1 as i am seriously running out of pants

 

[talkshowhost86]

Still not the usual is it though..
but sure ok. and if you could guarantee that I wouldnt necessarily say no for a short term quick fix.

my issue is that i dont see our results this season as vindication of the system we are playing. I think if you look at the teams we have played and the players we have in comparison to those teams we should be able to beat them.

It seems to me people are seeing our improved results playing this style of football and assuming it is the deciding factor. 2 + 2 = 5.

The biggest overall factor in our improved results is not the system but the fact we have the best squad of players we have ever had. We arent punching above our weight or needing to fight a rearguard action. We can afford to give them hell occasionally.

All fair points (although I don't necessarily agree with all of them) but my issue is with this faux argument that most fans are currently making that everything would be better if we were playing 'better' football.

I simply don't think that's the case and I think the fact that the majority would take a title even if it meant playing crap football shows that.

 

[Kendall]

you're a glass half empty kind of guy aren't you

Just calling it as I see it. We have gone backwards and individual players have too.

 

[dagraham]

The short answer is Yes, I would be happy if we won the league playing the way we are at present, its not like we are long ball cloggers.

The longer answer though is that actually winning the league (or just winning trophies generally) is the only way that I would be happy playing this way.

To be honest, I would probably be okay with securing CL football playing this way as it will mean we can keep hold of Lloris, Sandro and Verts and attract better players but it would have to change thereafter.

I just can't get excited watching us play anymore. I still love going to WHL for the banter and experience but there's something missing.

We've gone from one extreme to the other. Under Harry, everything was about the players having the freedom to express themselves. This was both Harry's main strength and also his biggest weakness. I remember thinking, if we can only find a ruthlessness, discipline and intensity to go with this football we will definitely challenge for the title.

Now, its like we're playing with straight jackets on, almost to the point where we seem overcaoched. Sure we're controlled but we're too damn controlled. Watching us play from the start and you would think we're 2 or 3 nil up against a top team and are simply trying to kill the game.

It's not just because teams are parking the bus either. Last night after about 30 minutes Hull got a little more confident and we had more space to play in. We had absolutely no idea how to effectively counter attack though, with players just content to slow it down again and get back into their pre-ordained positions.

We all want Spurs to be winners but at the end of the day I love watching good , exciting football that has me on the edge of my seat. If I only wanted to watch football where Spurs won, then I simply wouldn't watch any games that didn't involve Spurs.

But I do because football entertains me. If I pay to go and watch I don't want to be put to sleep.

 

[Spurger King]

I think that's all very true, and I'm not trying to necessarily defend AVB.

Personally I think the team generally needs more time to gel, but at the same time I agree that if he doesn't finish top 4 this year then that is a failure and he would rightly be under pressure.

The next month is going to be critical I think in shaping our season because as you say it's a little bit in flux at the moment. I'd say we've only really had one bad result (losing at Arsenal isn't good but can hardly be said to be unexpected) and we're in the top 4, but everything doesn't seem quite right for whatever reason.

I think people just need to see signs that our performances are going to get better, even if it's not necessarily all that entertaining. Apart from Norwich at home I'm struggling to think of a decent showing in the league.

I remember Chelsea teams in the past that would play dull, physical football, but you would expect them to win their games (which more often than not, they did). I don't expect us to win games these days. I don't even expect us to score. I rate Soldado very highly, but I'm starting to think there was no point in buying him if we're not going to create chances.

Like you I think the players still need more time to adjust, and in that time these performances are ok if we're picking up points. But it also feels like things are very precarious right now, and a run of bad results would quickly turn the atmosphere hostile. If we have a bad November you can pretty much guarantee the boo boys will be out in force, and more people will start to question whether AVB knows what he's doing.

That's part of the reason why I feel the fans were so frustrated against Hull (in the league game). After West Ham there's a lot of people who need to see evidence that we're actually a good team, instead of a team that turns every game into a painful, drawn out ordeal of sloppy passing and predictable tactics. The fans, the players, and the manager all need a big performance to bring the feel good factor back to the club.

 

[Bulletspur]

It does seem a bit worrying when you put it like that. You could probably add Vertonghen and Lloris to that list of players that seem to have become steadily worse.

As I said in the match thread last night, I'm starting to doubt whether AVB will last the season. My crystal ball tells me that the crap performances will continue, but the results won't...which will leave us cast adrift from the race for champions league spots. No point in sugar coating it - he failed last season by finishing in a lower position than Harry was able to manage (and the record points total is irrelevant if you actually think about it). If we don't make champions league this season AVB would have failed again. Only a cup win would appease the fans in that situation.

We're three points off the top, yet the whole mood around the club seems gloomy. We're playing horrible football, our new players are struggling to get going, the atmosphere is getting worse with every game, and the manager is focusing on the home supporters instead of the rather shite performances of his team.

I'm not saying I want AVB gone. I just think there are a lot of things that aren't right at the club at the moment, and if they aren't resolved soon, AVB's chickens will come home to roost.

I could not have worded it better. Even when the likes of Chelsea were winning the title by playing boring football, they at least seem to know their remit and were proficient in tactics etc. To be honest IMO we do not seem have a clue about how we should be playing and except for games like Norwich and Cardiff, we have been lucky. Its easy to detract from this fact by blaming the fans.

We have a very good squad in depth, but if the truth be known I have to watch grudgingly what Southampton, Everton, Liverpool etc are doing with theirs.

 

[mattyspurs]

I think people just need to see signs that our performances are going to get better, even if it's not necessarily all that entertaining. Apart from Norwich at home I'm struggling to think of a decent showing in the league.

I remember Chelsea teams in the past that would play dull, physical football, but you would expect them to win their games (which more often than not, they did). I don't expect us to win games these days. I don't even expect us to score. I rate Soldado very highly, but I'm starting to think there was no point in buying him if we're not going to create chances.

Like you I think the players still need more time to adjust, and in that time these performances are ok if we're picking up points. But it also feels like things are very precarious right now, and a run of bad results would quickly turn the atmosphere hostile. If we have a bad November you can pretty much guarantee the boo boys will be out in force, and more people will start to question whether AVB knows what he's doing.

That's part of the reason why I feel the fans were so frustrated against Hull (in the league game). After West Ham there's a lot of people who need to see evidence that we're actually a good team, instead of a team that turns every game into a painful, drawn out ordeal of sloppy passing and predictable tactics. The fans, the players, and the manager all need a big performance to bring the feel good factor back to the club.

Completely agree with this one. I feel for the guy. Cam e with an amazing record and reputation, and is now forced to be a glorified penalty taker.

I keep defending him to my mates, "Watch him, his movement is excellent" He can't be happy with what he getting at the moment.

We should have gone all in on Benteke

 

[EastLondonYid]

No title since 1961!!!!.....i would take a title with a team of Joey Bartons,Vinny jones and with Harry fucking Bassett in charge...are we serious??....pleeeze let me see us win one before i fucking die, whatever it takes. ...fuck that.