Yehven Konoplyanka

[spurs9]

Thought there was the rule about after Group Stages it's basically like a "reset" and players who moved on to another club in the competition could play for them. Could be wrong, I suck at learning the rules of everything pertaining to the game these days.

It's before the group stage e.g a player can plat for one team in the qualifying rounds and sign for another EL (or CL) team and play for them in the group stage and beyond. Once they have played (or even just registered) in the group stage, they can't play for another team in Europe that season.

Edit: Just to add to this, If a player played in a different UEFA comp in the group stage (in our case the CL), and the team he previously played for isn't now in the same comp (didn't finish 3rd and drop into the EL), then they can be registered (but only 1 player out of the 3 that can be added/changed).

 

[DaSpurs]

By accusing me of not reading your post you've only shown that you didn't read mine.

You're right though, I don't want to read through all 12/13 pages before giving my opinion on the potential transfer. What you can and can't be arsed to do is your business, I really don't care

You said I "wasted my time writing all that." People don't always write things for the purpose of a response, they write things for others to read them. If you read it at all, regardless of whether you responded adequately or not, it was no waste of time as it accomplished its purpose. Therefore, by saying it "was a waste of time," I safely assumed you didn't read it.

So no, I think I read your post perfectly fine there bubba.

 

[Snarfalicious]

Hard finding the exact verbiage - but I am seeing that a club can add 1 cup-tied player in the transfer window, but only if the first team has been eliminated in the competition - so it would not seem to apply to Konoplyanka

Ah, okay. That does sound right. Thanks for looking into that. Unfortunately, I'll probably forget it by next January and you'll need to repeat this same conversation.

 

[fatpiranha]

I find it hard to believe that many people don't seem to want Konoplyanka . A bit like Fabian Delph and Winston Reid I think people are underrating them because they would be cheap Levy buys. All 3 are upgrades and 1st team players and we would only get them at the prices quoted because of their contract situations.

 

[DaSpurs]

I find it hard to believe that many people don't seem to want Konoplyanka . A bit like Fabian Delph and Winston Reid I think people are underrating them because they would be cheap Levy buys. All 3 are upgrades and 1st team players and we would only get them at the prices quoted because of their contract situations.

Tbf to them, I think they understandably believe what we need to push on is quality. That's not wrong, I just happen to believe we can push on within our means by rounding out what the squad lacks rather than splurging on quality.

Southampton this season has given us an excellent example of how important compatibility is. They didn't search for quality (in fact they even picked up targets many here lifted their noses at recently such as Long, Mane, and Alderweireld), they just had a plan for a system and found the pieces that would make the system work, even after what they already had had been torn apart. They didn't need time to gel or adapt, they just found the right players for the right places and simply set it in motion.

It's something we need to do badly. Players like Konoplyanka and Delph are not outstanding quality players, but they provide things we crucially lack in bags. They round out our squad in the squad game, and make us more malleable and adaptable in the modern overly technical game from match to match. We will never be able to stand up to the likes of City and Chelsea on sheer quality, or even Arsenal or Liverpool with their finances, so we should stop trying to run a race we won't win and find another way to beat them.

 

[allpaths]

Stood out in only the odd game? I don't take it you've watched much of this guy at all, nor had a look at his numbers. 1 in 3 over several years for a mediocre European national side against European competition from the winger position? Hell Ronaldo's ratio with Portugal isn't even 1 in 2.

As is, none of our youth regardless of potential, as of this moment can provide what Kono can. Not one. Look at what you saw on the pitch yesterday. Lethargy, looseness, fear, and cumbersome movement of the ball forward. It is the recipe of our last two and a half years. Yehven Konoplyanka is the very antithesis of this. Running at defenders quickly and snapping their ankles in the process is what he does best, and we need that now rather than trying to blood more youth. We need more disorganization and chaos introduced on opposing back lines, and this is the speciality of this player.

There are qualities missing in our side that youth cannot solve, and what that is true, we must look elsewhere. I'm delighted to see multiple ITK sources now suggesting we are looking at wingers, because god knows we need it on the examples of this month. If Poch thought a youth were capable of supplying that, he'd have been involved by now, especially in the last week.

i think u under estimate our academy lads but i am excited to see what kono could do if he signs especially we r very thin at am

 

[allpaths]

It's funny you say that, as when I was watching the Euro 2012 tournament I was watching him and thinking, "Damn, this kid would be a fantastic backup to Bale."

But yes, it's ridiculous we've so poorly addressed the left winger position in particular for several years now. Bale was left to do his thing there for several years under Harry's favoritism and lack of need for options, Bale then flipped to inverted, then Bale was gone, and we still haven't adequately addressed it. But we need more cumbersome midfielders who pass side to side, got to always have more of those.

chadli's done pretty on the left this year i mean this in the most friendliest way but you r a bit of a nutter its funny

 

[DaSpurs]

i think u under estimate our academy lads but i am excited to see what kono could do if he signs especially we r very thin at am

I'm not so sure that I do, but regardless my intention was never to insult their talents or their potential.

I just think we have a fantastic opportunity on our hands to take advantage of our closest rivals' struggles, and I think people are getting a bit caught up on the excitement of what some of our recent youth products have managed to do this season. While it's absolutely wonderful what we've seen recently, people are forgetting that all but one of them saw quite a few loan moves before being transitioned into the first team, and even his performances initially were "solid," not the kind to push us on as evidenced at the time. That is an extremely important distinction.

Blooding youth takes time, and they should not be saddled with the responsibility of the ambitions of our club such as ours prematurely, and I think Poch knows this as evidenced by how many times he has mentioned exactly "we have to be careful with him/them." We cannot expect players who have seen lone cameos or not even the bench of the first team to suddenly arrive and help push us on, nor should we for their own sakes. You bleed them in scenarios such as against a defeated Burnley with Onomah, not in a scrap for a trophy or CL places. That is a massive, massive psychological leap. They can see time and still be blooded, and comfortably so while having more senior players as this is the optimal way.

 

[DaSpurs]

chadli's done pretty on the left this year i mean this in the most friendliest way but you r a bit of a nutter its funny

He has, but he struggled initially and still isn't always consistent. He is certainly a step in the right direction, but we're still not quite there yet.

And glad I could amuse you.

 

[allpaths]

I'm not so sure that I do, but regardless my intention was never to insult their talents or their potential.

I just think we have a fantastic opportunity on our hands to take advantage of our closest rivals' struggles, and I think people are getting a bit caught up on the excitement of what some of our recent youth products have managed to do this season. While it's absolutely wonderful what we've seen recently, people are forgetting that all but one of them saw quite a few loan moves before being transitioned into the first team, and even his performances initially were "solid," not the kind to push us on as evidenced at the time. That is an extremely important distinction.

Blooding youth takes time, and they should not be saddled with the responsibility of the ambitions of our club such as ours prematurely, and I think Poch knows this as evidenced by how many times he has mentioned exactly "we have to be careful with him/them." We cannot expect players who have seen lone cameos or not even the bench of the first team to suddenly arrive and help push us on, nor for their own sakes. You bleed them in scenarios such as against a defeated Burnley with Onomah, not in a scrap for a trophy or CL places. That is a massive, massive psychological leap. They can see time and still be blooded, and comfortably so while having more senior players as this is the optimal way.

first off i never said we should just throw them (youth) into the wilderness, but i do believe the club has to be a little more adventurous when integrating youth and im talking about 20-22 year olds (ie.Pritchard) who has had experience of first team not 17-19 year olds (ie.Onomah).

 

[DaSpurs]

first off i never said we should just throw them (youth) into the wilderness, but i do believe the club has to be a little more adventurous when integrating youth and im talking about 20-22 year olds (ie.Pritchard) who has had experience of first team not 17-19 year olds (ie.Onomah).

Fair enough. Others though are advocating Onomah and Oduwa fulfilling the same role, including the person to which I was responding and which you quoted. Admirable, but hopeful.

Pritchard I do not underestimate at all, in fact I think we need him as well. I just think we need another skillset as well. Not one I want because it's "better," just one which is different and gravely lacking in our squad.

 

[allpaths]

Fair enough. Others though are advocating Onomah and Oduwa fulfilling the same role, including the person to which I was responding and which you quoted. Admirable, but hopeful.

Pritchard I do not underestimate at all, in fact I think we need him as well. I just think we need another skillset as well. Not one I want because it's "better," just one which is different and gravely lacking in our squad.

also i think for this season we could play onomah and oduwa because we shouldnt really care if we dont get champions league and focus solely on the development on the side. i dont want to make any assumptions but i know some supporters will disagree but thats why we always r stunted in the long run because fans cant be patient and ant tell that the team is working towards something very good and the youth r the most important part of it.

 

[DaSpurs]

also i think for this season we could play onomah and oduwa because we shouldnt really care if we dont get champions league and focus solely on the development on the side. i dont want to make any assumptions but i know some supporters will disagree but thats why we always r stunted in the long run because fans cant be patient and ant tell that the team is working towards something very good and the youth r the most important part of it.

Can't disagree with that. But as valuable and essential as youth are to the development of the future, in this modern game it is not the only thing needed to build success for the future. It's an extremely difficult balancing act trying to bring through as many youth as possible while also ensuring optimal results on the pitch, because even on a basic level of an example, the stronger the side is the stronger our chances of holding on to these youth longer.

 

[allpaths]

Can't disagree with that. But as valuable and essential as youth are to the development of the future, in this modern game it is not the only thing needed to build success for the future. It's an extremely difficult balancing act trying to bring through as many youth as possible while also ensuring optimal results on the pitch, because even on a basic level of an example, the stronger the side is the stronger our chances of holding on to these youth longer.

i agree and that balancing act should be bring squad/solid starters through the academy and buy world class in areas that require it, but that players must already be a class above of what we already have. And there is no denying we need more numbers for the three behind the striker and think we should get kono anyways but when this balance is achieve i dont think we should buy a player like kono, despite bringing something extra to the side at this point kono isnt a class above and nobody even u can say with even a 50% chance of being accurate that kono will develop into one of those players.

 

[DaSpurs]

i agree and that balancing act should be bring squad/solid starters through the academy and buy world class in areas that require it, but that players must already be a class above of what we already have. And there is no denying we need more numbers for the three behind the striker and think we should get kono anyways but when this balance is achieve i dont think we should buy a player like kono, despite bringing something extra to the side at this point kono isnt a class above and nobody even u can say with even a 50% chance of being accurate that kono will develop into one of those players.

Have to agree with you here for the most part. Once better balance of the squad is restored after such lucrative spending in recent seasons on similar players, I do hope we'll be able to bring through youth at an even higher rate. But we don't have to buy only world class talents for incomings. Again, we will not beat Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal, or Man U to these talents, so we have to be smarter. Southampton figured this out, but we've been trying to get in to an arms race we simply cannot win.

We can restore that balance by living within our means, looking to our youth, and continuing to live within our means by looking for clever buys to keep us rounded rather than always looking for excessive quality. Give me a fully compatible squad of players with a diverse array of skillsets capable of tackling any situation any day over a squad of randomly assorted world class superstars who are not on the same page on the pitch.

 

[Spurs_Q8]

The fact £7m for 4 months make no sense for Levy, I think Levy would get him on free now, to force his club taking less money in next a few days, he might try for £3m, £3.25m, £3.5m.. etc and probably the money he recevied from Naughton at must.

As he did it with Holtby, but it was £1.5m..

 

[spursfan77]

I find it hard to believe that many people don't seem to want Konoplyanka . A bit like Fabian Delph and Winston Reid I think people are underrating them because they would be cheap Levy buys. All 3 are upgrades and 1st team players and we would only get them at the prices quoted because of their contract situations.

I know what you mean but I'm not sure Delph is an upgrade on any of our central midfield options. The other 2 would be good additions to the squad and improve that no doubt.

 

[Hoopspur]

At least the guy will also try to shoot from outside the area. If he can't dribble past 8 players then he'll have a go. Ericksen and Kane will attempt this - who else? We need some fire power with a little accuracy.

*I'm discounting Andros from this at the moment for fairly obvious reasons.

 

[225]

At least the guy will also try to shoot from outside the area. If he can't dribble past 8 players then he'll have a go. Ericksen and Kane will attempt this - who else? We need some fire power with a little accuracy.

Chadli, Lamela, Townsend - pretty much everyone we already have competing for that position.

 

[SFCS]

You said I "wasted my time writing all that." People don't always write things for the purpose of a response, they write things for others to read them. If you read it at all, regardless of whether you responded adequately or not, it was no waste of time as it accomplished its purpose. Therefore, by saying it "was a waste of time," I safely assumed you didn't read it.

So no, I think I read your post perfectly fine there bubba.

*sigh* I explained why you wasted your time in the rest of the paragraph.

Read it again, or don't, I think we've bored everyone else enough in this thread so I'm leaving it there.