zokora the untouchable

[Michey]

Zokora couldn't lace JJ's boots.

C'mon....do you actually....you can't....or do you

Are you one of those that think Jenas is class

 

[west indie]

adding the likes of modric, santos & bentley around two average central midfield players in jenas & zokora was a disaster waiting to happen. i said last season that berba & keane covered up their inalbility by creating/scoring the goals themselves.

with both strikers now gone we still leak goals but now rely on fluke goal gifts with no drive or inspiration coming from the centre of the park from a partnership that has played together for the last 3 years(2 of those hiding behind the berba & keane show, & the current season highlighting how limited they really are?

 

[walworthyid]

Zokora couldn't lace JJ's boots.

I'm sorry mate, while I don't think that Zokora is all that great either, Jenas is shit. I have listed his weak points on here too many times to do so again, with nobody coming back to argue with me I might add, but suffice to say that even his fellow pros think he is very, VERY, overrated.

What exactly does Jenas do well?

 

[Krafty]

Jenas and Zokora are not good enough 90% of the time. As this is a Zokora thread I'll stick to him.

Has no leadership abilities at all. Doesnt organise the midfield, give directions to others. His positional sense generally is poor, gets caught out, doesnt mark runners. When he does play well he commits himself 100% to pressing people, however he doesnt do that often enough.

He certainly isnt helped by his various midfield partners not being good enough, Jenas being the biggest culprit, but he is only viewed as a defensive midfielder because he cant cross, pass or shoot. He cant really tackle either, just runs around like a headless chicken. His effort can be applaudable, but he is not good enough to be first choice, and to be honest is one of those players whose athleticism results in him playing in plenty of positions, and that is the reason why he is kept on him.

I've tried to wait for him to progress and improve, but he hasnt. Would start O'Hara ahead of him quite easily at the moment.

 

[yiddotilidie]

C'mon....do you actually....you can't....or do you

Are you one of those that think Jenas is class

Its funny how with him and Carrick in the middle we kept our highest number of clean sheets.

He is always our top scoring midfielder. His energy is ALWAYS missed when he doesn't play.

His final ball is poor i agree, but as he isn't meant to be the creative midfielder it isn't the end of the world.

More often than not he supports our strikers at one minute and is then our last minute helping out the defence - all while Zokora is running round in circles.

Im not saying that JJ is the answer, but the stick he gets compared to the lack of stick that Zoko the clown gets is very unfair.

At least with JJ you have energy and a possible goal - what the fuck does Zoko give us? Every single game he gets appluaded for making a run and doing nothing with it.

I suppose you are one of those fans that think Zokora is class

 

[walworthyid]

Its funny how with him and Carrick in the middle we kept our highest number of clean sheets.

He is always our top scoring midfielder. His energy is ALWAYS missed when he doesn't play.

His final ball is poor i agree, but as he isn't meant to be the creative midfielder it isn't the end of the world.

More often than not he supports our strikers at one minute and is then our last minute helping out the defence - all while Zokora is running round in circles.

Im not saying that JJ is the answer, but the stick he gets compared to the lack of stick that Zoko the clown gets is very unfair.

At least with JJ you have energy and a possible goal - what the fuck does Zoko give us? Every single game he gets appluaded for making a run and doing nothing with it.

I suppose you are one of those fans that think Zokora is class

That is a bit of a myth! Jenas played alot of games on the right of midfield that season. The usual line up being;

Jenas (Lennon 65 minutes'ish) Tainio Carrick Davids

Besides which, Davids tucked in alot when we were defending and that contributed greatly to our defensive record that season.

It is honestly beyond me when people try to claim that Jenas is a top notch player, I have seen him play more than 100 times and he has played well in no more than 10 of those games.

No Zokora is not that good either, but we all know it, Jenas fans still try to say that he going to be a world beater.

I will eat my left testicle if Jenas ever gets close to being in the world's top 100 midfield players!

He is a very poor player!

 

[yiddotilidie]

I've never said top notch.

I argued against the point that people think Zoko isnt the problem but JJ is.

Zoko has never added anything to spurs - JJ has added goals and been part of a winning midfield.

 

[walworthyid]

I've never said top notch.

I argued against the point that people think Zoko isnt the problem but JJ is.

Zoko has never added anything to spurs - JJ has added goals and been part of a winning midfield.

Fair enough, but people say that because Zokora is reasonably competent at sitting deep and breaking up play. Jenas, perhaps through no fault of his own, is absolutely dreadful at playing as the advanced player. He has no composure, he is a poor passer, he lacks vision, he passes sideways, he walks back when he drives forward and loses the ball, he is not great in the air, he is not creative, he no longer scores, he no longer supports the even worse Bent, I could go on.

I think that neither of them are anywhere near good enough, but Zokora's more limited role does not expose him as much.

Both are shit imo! I have and still do play with better players, perhaps not as fit, but better technically!

 

[fortworthspur]

Zokora does his job, Jenas hasn't this year at all. Zokora's name is mud around here, but Jenas is far and away the biggest disappointment this season.

 

[yiddotilidie]

How on earth does Zokora do his job. He falls asleep whenever we dont have the ball.

On Sunday, watch him off the ball, he drifts away from his man every single time. I wont rest until he leaves spurs, it's incredible that he's a premiership player IMO.

WTF is Zokoras job by the way? If you're saying its to be the defensive midfielder then he certainly aint doing his job....so what is his role in your opinion? What exactly does he protect? What exactly does he break up? What exactly does he give Spurs at all?

 

[DC_Boy]

JJ is our best mid and deffo better than zoko

check out these stats

http://footballstats.telegraph.co.uk/TeamPlayerStat08.aspx?optaid=6

 

[fortworthspur]

he is the holding mid, for better or worse, and breaks up more chances in one game than Jenas has created all season.

 

[yiddotilidie]

he is the holding mid, for better or worse, and breaks up more chances in one game than Jenas has created all season.

You're on drugs mate.

JJ isn't there to create firstly. And I bet if we had stats to prove it it would show that in fact JJ has broken up more possession than Mr Muppet.

 

[DC_Boy]

You're on drugs mate.

JJ isn't there to create firstly. And I bet if we had stats to prove it it would show that in fact JJ has broken up more possession than Mr Muppet.

hi yiddo

just put some stats up - confirming jj's overall superiority to DZ

http://footballstats.telegraph.co.uk/TeamPlayerStat08.aspx?optaid=6

the whole list is very revealing - we all know who's got more goals and assists


but who's won more tackles this season - JJ

15 -13

accurate passes - JJ again

371 - 296

it really is no contest

I'm not anti-zoko but he's not as good as JJ

 

[yiddotilidie]

hi yiddo

just put some stats up - confirming jj's overall superiority to DZ

http://footballstats.telegraph.co.uk/TeamPlayerStat08.aspx?optaid=6

the whole list is very revealing - we all know who's got more goals and assists


but who's won more tackles this season - JJ

15 -13

:up:

 

[walworthyid]

JJ is our best mid and deffo better than zoko

At what?

Tell me what he does or has done this season? I think they are both shit but I can actually tell what Zokora does.

I have made lists of what I consider to be Jenas' main weaknesses, and nobody comes on to refute them. I wonder why? They simply babble inanely about how he is "good" and "better than Zokora" but seem at a loss to explain why;

he can't pass properly
he gives the ball away, ALOT
Why he has the first touch of a rapist
he can't play with his left foot
he can't cross a ball
he can't take a corner
he can't head a ball very well
he has no composure
he has no vision
he no longer really gets forward in support
he is not creative
he passes sideways all of the time
has poor technique
he can't go past players apart from by kicking the ball past them and running
he loses control of the ball, ALOT


Look, Jenas is a decent footballer in the grand scheme of things, ie he is better than me and I like to think I am good at football, but he is deficient in so many areas that he is simply ill equipped and incapable of playing in central midfield at the top level of the game.

 

[DC_Boy]

:up:

ytd - some people don't like me putting up JJ stats - cos it upsets their prejudices

and remember this is a season where he's supposed to have been terrible and I'll certainly agree he was better in previous seasons

when I get a bit more time I'll put up last season's stats

 

[fortworthspur]

do you have a stat for free kicks put 10 feet over the crossbar or percentage of balls given away in the opponents half? if you look at the numbers you posted, you cant seriously argue Zokora is shit without acknowledging Jenas is too, considering their responsibilities and where they play on the pitch.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

At what?

Tell me what he does or has done this season? I think they are both shit but I can actually tell what Zokora does.

I have made lists of what I consider to be Jenas' main weaknesses, and nobody comes on to refute them. I wonder why? They simply babble inanely about how he is "good" and "better than Zokora" but seem at a loss to explain why;

he can't pass properly
he gives the ball away, ALOT
Why he has the first touch of a rapist
he can't play with his left foot
he can't cross a ball
he can't take a corner
he can't head a ball very well
he has no composure
he has no vision
he no longer really gets forward in support
he is not creative
he passes sideways all of the time
has poor technique
he can't go past players apart from by kicking the ball past them and running
he loses control of the ball, ALOT


Look, Jenas is a decent footballer in the grand scheme of things, ie he is better than me and I like to think I am good at football, but he is deficient in so many areas that he is simply ill equipped and incapable of playing in central midfield at the top level of the game.

I have to admit that this is correct. He is such an average player that you could put him in the Championship and he really wouldn't stand out. Strange thing is though, we look like a worse team when he isn't their. Maybe that says more about the lack of quality in our midfield rather than the quality in Jenas. He does have excellent work rate which you cannot fault him for. But then again so does Zokora, but he just doesn't use the ball well enough.

I've always been for us playing a 3 man central midfield to cover up these problems but this doesn't seem to be working either. We are kind of screwed, Modric is our best central attacking mid but he looks lost so far. Doesn't seem to be ready to go in the centre of a 4-4-2 next to an undisciplined defensive midfielder that's for sure. I'm trying to think of the right blance for our midfield but i'm serioously struggling to see which two compliment each other.

Imo both JJ and Zoko are poor footballers. This is why we can't dominate a game.

 

[Has1978]

I think I'm done justifying Jenas. After 2-3 years I've had enough.

Not shit. Just not very good. He hasn't developed since his opening weeks with us ( I really thought he'd push on after the cross and goal in the home game against Everton a few years ago).

He thinks slowly - the mark of a good player is one who knows what he'll do with the ball before he gets it. He never has and never will. We need more than an athlete. And he's never been consistent. The glimpses are there but glimpses aren't going to keep us up.

Sorry Jermaine I thought you'd come good. You haven't and I don't think you ever will. You're better than Zokora but that's not saying an awful lot, frankly.