The beginning of the end...

double0 · Aug 26, 2019

It's very simple the squad needs investment and let's be honest we basically just replaced Dembele with Ndombele Lo Celso if a suitable bid comes in is for Eriksen.

I've heard people say Pochettinho is stubborn for not playing Vertonghen... I laugh because people have short memories Vertonghen has always been a disruptive player hes had previous with other mangers before.

Pochettinho hasn't got a plan B? We've been down this road before and it's an Internet lie. Pochettinho is one of the most flexible managers out there we play various systems throughout a season.

The spine/core of our improvement imo has been Lloris one of (Vertonghen/Alderweireld) Dier Dembele Eriksen Alli Kane. Now amongst those players we have problems. This is the challenge Pochettinho has to regenerate the team he most be given time and must be backed I don't feel it will take long either.

People might not want to hear this but if Eriksen wants Madrid he should not be anywhere near the team until the European window is closed. If Vertonghens been up to his tricks again, the manager has to be backed 100%.

Another player that needs management is Sissoko imo his games should be managed. He should be considered for what id call category A games ie Man City Liverpool Chelski etc.

Dier and Alli how we've missed these players (injuries have taken its toll) they are much maligned by our own fans. They should be allowed to gain full fitness, once they've achieved that Pochettinho must put them straight back into the starting 11.

It's not great though losing at home to Newcastle. On the other hand it was great coming away with a point against the champions.

1882andallthat · Aug 26, 2019

This post is a knee jerk reaction, as A&C says the timing of it after a loss points this way, if it wasn't then why not leave it a few days.
If Kane had been awarded the penalty and scored and Moura had buried that second half shot inside the area instead of skying that chance a 2-1 victory would have meant that this article would never have been posted last night.

Yes there would have been mutterings that it was a turgid performance where we scraped the 3 points and laboured to a win against a very poor Newcastle side but the result has ensured that this knee jerk post has sent things completely overboard.

shelfboy68 · Aug 26, 2019

Metalhead said:
Agree with a large part of that - particularly your point about Levy. I hope that the Eriksen situation particularly is resolved and it would seem that any transfer fee at this stage is better than none. The only slight issue is that the way the players are being set up for games and the lack of incisive attacking play can't be put down to the contract situation. Saying that, Poch did actually acknowledge that in his post match interview.

Lack of incisive play along with weird formations and predictable substitutions are at the managers door no excuses about contract situations, all this was happening last year again no excuses I just don't get how faster attacking play can't be coached instead of the AVB shit that continues to be served up.

shelfmonkey · Aug 26, 2019

Archibald&Crooks said:
If this isn’t a knee jerk reaction then why not post it a few days ago? Or wait a few days and post it then. You could have come out with this any time.

This is massively a knee jerk reaction, it’s linked directly to today’s result, the timing gives it away.

Personally, I think it’s obvious that this is Pochs last season with us, that’s based on nothing but a hunch though.

Disagree. Yesterday's result is the culmination of our frustrations over the last 18 months. We could all see that something hasn't been right for that period, the CL glossed over it all and distracted us all from that fact, we regressed somewhat since 16/17 season, our football has been turgid and passionless, how anyone cannot see that is beyond me. Sometimes things just run there course and then it's over, that's life and football is no different.

jolegend · Aug 26, 2019

DCSPUR said:
CL final?

That we lost! Big clubs don’t count getting to a final as a success. It’s winning them that matters.

We were also extremely fortunate to get through the group and had huge amounts of luck to beat city and Ajax. Do you remember that first leg vs Ajax? The second leg wasn’t much better save for Lucas Moura saving us.

ajspurs · Aug 26, 2019

double0 said:
It's very simple the squad needs investment. I've heard people say Pochettinho is stubborn for not playing Vertonghen... I laugh because people have short memories Vertonghen has always been a disruptive player hes had previous with other mangers before.

Pochettinho hasn't got a plan B? We've been down this road before and it's an Internet lie. Pochettinho is one of the most flexible managers out there we play various systems throughout a season.

The spine/core of our improvement imo has been Lloris one of (Vertonghen/Alderweireld) Dier Dembele Eriksen Alli Kane. Now amongst those players we have problems. This is the challenge Pochettinho has to regenerate the team he most be given time and must be backed I don't feel it will take long either.

People might not want to hear this but if Eriksen wants Madrid he should not be anywhere near the team until the European window is closed. If Vertonghens been up to his tricks again, the manager has to be backed 100%.

Another player that needs management is Sissoko imo his games should be managed. He should be considered for what id call category A games ie Man City Liverpool Chelski etc.

Dier and Alli how we've missed these players (injuries have taken its toll) they are much maligned by our own fans. They should be allowed to gain full fitness, once they've achieved that Pochettinho must put them straight back into the starting 11.

It's not great though losing at home to Newcastle. On the other hand it was great coming away with a point against the champions away.

You make it sound as if Vertonghen is Adebayor, I can't say I remember him being much of a problem for us previously.

Investment isn't the first answer to our problems, what we're seeing on the pitch now isn't solely down to a lack of the right players, it's fundamentally deeper than that IMO. The way it looks to me is that Pochettino tinkers the formation, like he did yesterday initially after HT in putting us in more of a 4-4-2, but we're not playing these systems effectively, it looks like the players are just told to take up different positions with no new set of instructions to go with it. Yesterday I feel like I could have gone in that dressing room at HT, given the speech and just said "right, Lamela you go wide left, Son you play out on the right and Lucas you play central to partner Kane" and the performance after HT would have been no different to what it actually was. If I'm honest it looked amateur to me. The last time we actually looked like things were clicking on the pitch was probably around Xmas last year away to Everton.

Also it's all good coming away with a hard fought draw away at City, but the result loses so much of it's value when you then go and lose to a relegation candidate at home the next game.

jolegend · Aug 26, 2019

Dougal said:
I couldn’t really give a shit what a lot of our fans want. A lot of our fans are nobheads. Which they prove time and again when a result doesn’t go our way.

What about when results and performances havent gone our way for 9 months?

Donki · Aug 26, 2019

Let’s give it 10 games.

shelfboy68 · Aug 26, 2019

ajspurs said:
You make it sound as if Vertonghen is Adebayor, I can't say I remember him being much of a problem for us previously.

Investment isn't the first answer to our problems, what we're seeing on the pitch now isn't solely down to a lack of the right players, it's fundamentally deeper than that IMO. The way it looks to me is that Pochettino tinkers the formation, like he did yesterday initially after HT in putting us in more of a 4-4-2, but we're not playing these systems effectively, it looks like the players are just told to take up different positions with no new set of instructions to go with it. Yesterday I feel like I could have gone in that dressing room at HT, given the speech and just said "right, Lamela you go wide left, Son you play out on the right and Lucas you play central to partner Kane" and the performance after HT would have been no different to what it actually was. If I'm honest it looked amateur to me. The last time we actually looked like things were clicking on the pitch was probably around Xmas last year away to Everton.

Also it's all good coming away with a hard fought draw away at City, but the result loses so much of it's value when you then go and lose to a relegation candidate at home the next game.

All the classic hallmarks of our team and one of the reasons why this club continues not to win anything.

Dougal · Aug 26, 2019

jolegend said:
What about when results and performances have gone our way for 9 months?

Well then they jump right back on that bandwagon. It seems we’re only ever lucky or shit.

SugarRay · Aug 26, 2019

The point at City hasn’t lost some of its value, it’s lost all of its value after yesterday.

I’d swap a 8-0 loss at City for a 1-0 win yesterday.

We’re currently 2 points down on what we should have after 3 games. I read earlier we’ve picked up 15 points in our last 15 games, that’s terrible if true. Next weeks game has come at an awful time for us. We might nick a point but more than likely get beat comfortably and will be 4 games in and 8 points off top! We needed a good start to keep pace.

Maybe I’m being foolish by looking upwards when that 15 from 15 is considered anyway! Very, very sobering. We’ve taken last seasons pathetic domestic form in to this term. Last time that happened Harry came in after 8 games :ROFLMAO:

Mr Pink · Aug 26, 2019

It's all very strange. Didn't look like there was much wrong with the squad harmony when we knocked out Ajax in the second leg, or City for that matter... Scenes in the changing rooms etc

But there clearly is issues, and Poch said post match that we weren't at the right levels in terms of fighting for each other but I do wonder if that stems from the tension between the management and some players.

Our league form is really worrying, and if things stay the same we'll be know where near the top 6 let alone the top 4.

We can analyse a million things in all this but the most obvious evidence is right in front of our eyes - we don't play with intensity anymore, it's completely gone and Poch has to take a big chunk of the responsibility for that.

Japhet · Aug 26, 2019

double0 said:
It's very simple the squad needs investment and let's be honest we basically just replaced Dembele with Ndombele Lo Celso if a suitable bid comes in is for Eriksen.

I've heard people say Pochettinho is stubborn for not playing Vertonghen... I laugh because people have short memories Vertonghen has always been a disruptive player hes had previous with other mangers before.

Pochettinho hasn't got a plan B? We've been down this road before and it's an Internet lie. Pochettinho is one of the most flexible managers out there we play various systems throughout a season.

The spine/core of our improvement imo has been Lloris one of (Vertonghen/Alderweireld) Dier Dembele Eriksen Alli Kane. Now amongst those players we have problems. This is the challenge Pochettinho has to regenerate the team he most be given time and must be backed I don't feel it will take long either.

People might not want to hear this but if Eriksen wants Madrid he should not be anywhere near the team until the European window is closed. If Vertonghens been up to his tricks again, the manager has to be backed 100%.

Another player that needs management is Sissoko imo his games should be managed. He should be considered for what id call category A games ie Man City Liverpool Chelski etc.

Dier and Alli how we've missed these players (injuries have taken its toll) they are much maligned by our own fans. They should be allowed to gain full fitness, once they've achieved that Pochettinho must put them straight back into the starting 11.

It's not great though losing at home to Newcastle. On the other hand it was great coming away with a point against the champions.

So. what tricks has the 'disruptive' Vertonghen been up to exactly?

Thewobbler · Aug 26, 2019

This probably wont go down well but in some games we can drop kane, and i rate kane very highly, and play son up top. We've seen before that we can win games without him no problem. Having an attack of eriksen, son, alli, lucas and lamela and they can interchange.

This stat here says we do fine without him:

"Overall, in the three seasons since the start of the 2016-17 campaign combined,Tottenham have a win percentage of 64.5% without Kane "

Seafordian Spurs · Aug 26, 2019

Japhet said:
So. what tricks has the 'disruptive' Vertonghen been up to exactly?

Putting stink bombs in the new players' lockers!

dimiSpur · Aug 26, 2019

I wouldn't jump to the same conclusions as the opening post. I do think the opinion has been exaggerated by the defeat, which was pretty poor.

However everything mentioned in it has merit, without meaning the conclusion that Poch wants out is correct. We have indeed been playing without the same energy for some time now. I certainly don't enjoy watching us play as much as I did 2 seasons ago for example.

The biggest concern for me is the fact that we don't seem to have a playing style anymore. We don't press at all anymore and quite frankly, if someone was to ask me "how do Spurs play? System etc", I honestly wouldn't know what to tell them. Is our first choice system a 4-2-3-1? A diamond? A classic 4-4-2? I honestly don't know! At one stage yesterday we had 5 players on the edge of their box waiting the ball, with Sissoko right, Rose left and literally Eriksen and Toby passing between themselves looking to play an impossible pass to the players that went and marked themselves out the game.

Our defence gets worse every week, with Sanchez unable to position himself correctly. The goal yesterday was more his fault than Rose's IMO. He inexplicably vacated the CB area for no apparent reason. Yes you shift across with your other CB, but surely you have to be aware of the fact that the only Newcastle player within 30 yards of him, was in the space he had just vacated. The situation with Vertonghen is worrisome. We don't know what the future holds for either him or Toby. We don't know what's going on with Eriksen, who obviously wants to leave and perhaps the Club want him to leave also. We have Rose playing, who the Club wanting to get rid of up until a month ago.

It's all breeding an air of uncertainty, coupled with the fact that Poch does tend to make some curious statements to the media.

I do hope the OP is proven wrong, and whilst I don't agree with guessing and hence cannot agree completely with the said opening post, there are signs there that lead one to fear that the situation is quite bad.

Archibald&Crooks · Aug 26, 2019

shelfmonkey said:
Disagree. Yesterday's result is the culmination of our frustrations over the last 18 months. We could all see that something hasn't been right for that period, the CL glossed over it all and distracted us all from that fact, we regressed somewhat since 16/17 season, our football has been turgid and passionless, how anyone cannot see that is beyond me. Sometimes things just run there course and then it's over, that's life and football is no different.

I have no problem with a lot of what the OP had to say and actually agree with some of it. But come out with it after the Villa game or even the City game after all, as he says, the concerns were there. The concerns have been there for quit a while and he says himself, he's had 18 months of 'concern' so plenty of opportunity to say it, SC isn't usually so slow to have a dig or want a manager out and now SC has sunk it's teeth in, this won't go away until the manager does.

If you wait until after a defeat then people are going to say it's knee-jerk. And that's exactly what it was, despite the OP's claims to the contrary. It's all in the timing

No big deal in itself really, but pretty much 100% of the time people claim it's not knee-jerk it actually is. Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining

DanielJohnCosta · Aug 26, 2019

Poch goes and we lose 80% of what's good about our current playing squad it's that simple. The idea that people would be okay with poch leaving and us becoming a top 8 team again battling Europa league is actually hilarious. grow the fuck up people and this is coming from someone who is pessimistic as fuck

Wsussexspur · Aug 26, 2019

Yesterday was as bad as I’ve seen us play since the AVB days. I think we may need to accept the Lamela,Moura, Son combination obviously doesn’t work.

I know it’s really hard but we have to remain patient. Obviously the whole Eriksen situation has been very disruptive more than any of us expected. I’d be very surprised if he is still with us next week and none of us really know what’s going on with Jan that is a worrying situation. Mind does boggle how every season we seem to start with these kind of issues of having unsettled squad for what ever reason.

We got the players in Potch wanted and it’s going to take time for them to settle. Also two of them were still playing football until mid July so needed a break with one also being injured and it’s going to take time for them To get up to match sharpness. Same applies with son and Alli they are going to need time to get up to sharpness.

It’s going to be hard and we may have to suck up some more pain in these early stages of the season especially with next week in mind. But let’s give Potch a chance to get the squad settled the new players bedded in Alli and Son fit and firing before we start screaming and crying that he needs to go.

As I said yesterday who else are we going to get?

coys200 · Aug 26, 2019

Your post is definitely OTT. But yesterday was the first time I started to feel something more worrying and deeper was going on. It was fair enough to put last season league form down to moving stadium injuries and CL run. Villa I could excuse 1st game of season. City I could excuse its city and ultimately we got a point. But we/Pochettino ran out of excuses yesterday.

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