The beginning of the end...

[DanielJohnCosta]

We won't loose 80% of our games ffs. We have some REALLY good players, and an overall really good squad that should end in top4 and possible even more.

Problem is atm that Poch is not getting the maximum out of the squad he has available.

We used to run teams over and was the most exciting teams in the league, now we look fucking shit and has looked like that for the past 18 months.

the 80 % was referring to the quality players we have the squad going because of Poch.

 

[Metalhead]

We can hope he is but it looks like his best years with us are gone.

Healthy severance package?

I think that we will have a fair idea of where we are going to be by mid to end of October. If we are still floundering by then without any sign of improvement then I would start to fear for Poch. Levy doesn't mess about - remember when BMJ said that 5th place was as good as it gets? Levy was out trying to get Ramos almost immediately.

 

[Gilzeanking]

He is also 100% right. Dropping Kane would be insane.

You call it dropping to up the drama I suppose . Its called rotation too y'know . I'm just looking for flexibility and adaptability from our manager . Did you not even have a scintilla of doubt over Kane playing the CL final ? .

Have you not noticed his lack of movement why the FUCK is he not fighting anymore ?. If he had time on the bench here and there maybe he'd decide to put himself about a bit more... It has to be a manager's option to play the in form players at his disposal .No-one should be untouchable or they might get too comfortable .

 

[dudu]

I have to agree that our current form is somewhat distressing, but the beginning of the end?

Like it or not, we are a team in transition, so whether its Poch or whoever, we are rebuilding our defense and midfield to a large degree and we aren't the team of two/three years ago.

Patience is going to be needed no matter what so while I can't excuse losing at home to Newcastle, I am not quite ready to start writing anyone's eulogy just yet.

 

[Japhet]

Didn't Herc suggest that it's a fitness issue?

yes, he did, but you can't go into melt mode over that.

 

[Twizzle]

sooooooo, how about that Champions League final hey ? thought we did pretty well to get there

 

[Stamford]

The league run we are on is really shocking. I don't know if I can see it being turned around

 

[spurs9]

You don’t have to buy it. However, it is a fact! Like it or not.

Whilst I appreciate this will be the info you/your source has been fed, Verts looked fine in the preseason games whilst Ndombele struggled with fitness, yet Verts can't even get a spot on the bench but Ndombele starts the first two games.

Add the fact that Verts has a black eye and whilst it could be a coincidence I have my doubts.

 

[NickHSpurs]

What a brilliant post mate, agree with all of this.
And poch’s pressers are starting to really piss the fans off, if he doesn’t want to be here then he can go with erisken as well, like you say why on earth would you say that if we won the CL he’d leave? How about build a dynasty or revel in the glory and try and kick on etc, he’s an odd guy. Fuck knows what goes on behind the scenes and if he’s not getting his way or whatever and he’s just fed up of it but if so then leave, like you say we signed some top players this summer but he doesn’t seem to be at all enthused about that either. It’s so interesting how the managers mood etc effects a team.
Cases in point:
-Pep: always merticulous calm and confident (team plays accordingly)
-Klopp: always bouncy and positive and energetic (team plays accordingly)
-Poch: starts being aloof and moody and depressed and negative, oh guess what the team starts to play in a similar vein.

other cases:
Jose at Chelsea first time : so much confidence and arrogance) teams plays accordingly and wins.
Jose at Man.U : moody and confrontational (team plays the same)

Fergie: bullish and aggressive : team plays the same
Kevin keegan at newc : overly emotional, irrational (guess what his team threw away a huge Lead)

What happens and is said at pressers and the mood and the tone very often reflect what is going on, on and off the pitch. A manager is only human.

Agree with this, I haven't watched a single interview of his since he threw his toys out of the pram when he was asked about Lamela playing well in pre-season. His tetchy response was unnecessary, his general grumpy output and speaking in riddles drives me mental and I've got no interest in seeing them as they're all the same.

He's losing his charm and the version of Poch we're seeing at the moment simply isn't likeable. He's the face of our club and he seems to have forgotten that lately.

 

[Metalhead]

yes, he did, but you can't go into melt mode over that.

Absolutely not. Unfortunately it's probably not a dramatic enough explanation for some people.

 

[Primativ]

It doesn't matter if this thread is a knee jerk reaction or not, the facts speak for themselves.

4 wins in the last 15 games and in 2019 we've played 22 games, lost 11, drawn 3 and only won 8. That's alarming.

We're just very lucky that United, Chelsea and Arsenal are all in transition otherwise we'd easily be the 6th best team in the country. We have got to stop the rot before the others hit their stride otherwise we'll be left behind next season and struggling to replace Toby, Jan, Eriksen and Rose (at a minimum) when we're in the Europa League.

That is the thing, they will eventually get their act together. They have too much finance not to.

I've stopped enjoying games under Poch for ages now. Yesterday I really felt I couldn't be arsed with the journey when I left, don't think I will go back for a while, I just don't enjoy our games at all. The thing is it's such a gradual decline, you don't really realise it until it feels like it is a crisis.

The CL run glossed over it all but even that was just random luck. Who remembers the Ajax first leg game at home? We were AWFUL. A young Ajax side pissed all over us at NWHL. What about the first half of the second leg? We were battered and collapsed. Defensive frailtiies in abundance. The second half we somehow came back but it was pure desperation, going route one with Llorente. As a fan you don't care at the time, but when you look back and analyse it it wasn't convincing at all.

Could you imagine Klopp or Guardiola going route one like that? Look at how Liverpool played in Barcelona, they lost but they actually played well and stuck to their principles, it's just Messi had one of those nights. Came back to Anfield and just mauled them.

The CL Final was a pathetic insipid performance. We didn't even look pumped up for it. I think that should have set alarm bells ringing, the manner of our performance. Biggest game of the players lives and they played like a preseason friendly.

Who remembers how bad we were Fulham away? Worst team in the country and they battered us. We needed a Winks late goal to save us. I could continue to pick out all these abymal performances and games and noone can disagree with me about how poor we've been.

How many good performances have we had in 18 months? Even the start of last season we played poorly. it was only actually the Everton and Bournemouth games we played well. We also lost to Wolves at home badly around Xmas time, we were hardly Harlem Globetrotters.

This has been coming for ages, people saying it's kneejerk have buried their heads in the sands. The thing is, you get accused for being negative if you speak up too early, and also you have internal dialogue with yourself before you go public. Am I over reacting? If I voice my doubts people will shout me down for being a moaner? Maybe I am being a bit harsh and Poch will turn it around? I guess we've had off the field stuff to deal with / injuries etc etc You go through all of this. Anything to stop you realising the horrible reality that it seems the coach isn't doing as good a job as you thought he was, and maybe he isn't the man to lead us forward any longer.

 

[Spurs 1961]

No doubt he seems to be morphing into a Mourinho, the bad one not the good one, clone. The thing is he has never actually won anything. Since around Feb we have played very poor football with no change in sight. I wonder how much longer DL will put up with this?

 

[mpickard2087]

How many good performances have we had in 18 months? Even the start of last season we played poorly. it was only actually the Everton and Bournemouth games we played well. We also lost to Wolves at home badly around Xmas time, we were hardly Harlem Hlobetrotters.

Those Everton and Bournemouth games only look good because of the scorelines, apart from the clinical finishing the performances were trash and a precursor to what we see lately. Wide open games where we now give up as many chances to the opposition as we tend to have ourselves, Everton should have been 2-0 up and scored more goals than they had, and the 5-0 v Bournemouth was the least deserved ever, Bournemouth could easily have scored that many themselves.

 

[riggi]

sooooooo, how about that Champions League final hey ? thought we did pretty well to get there

Luck

 

[Primativ]

Those Everton and Bournemouth games only look good because of the scorelines, apart from the clinical finishing the performances were trash and a precursor to what we see lately. Wide open games where we now give up as many chances to the opposition as we tend to have ourselves, Everton should have been 2-0 up and scored more goals than they had, and the 5-0 v Bournemouth was the least deserved ever, Bournemouth could easily have scored that many themselves.

Agree with you. Calvert Lewin had a good header harshly disallowed. We were all at sea in the opening 20.

 

[Primativ]

No doubt he seems to be morphing into a Mourinho, the bad one not the good one, clone. The thing is he has never actually won anything. Since around Feb we have played very poor football with no change in sight. I wonder how much longer DL will put up with this?

Its been longer than Feb mate.

 

[Metalhead]

That is the thing, they will eventually get their act together. They have too much finance not to.

I've stopped enjoying games under Poch for ages now. Yesterday I really felt I couldn't be arsed with the journey when I left, don't think I will go back for a while, I just don't enjoy our games at all. The thing is it's such a gradual decline, you don't really realise it until it feels like it is a crisis.

The CL run glossed over it all but even that was just random luck. Who remembers the Ajax first leg game at home? We were AWFUL. A young Ajax side pissed all over us at NWHL. What about the first half of the second leg? We were battered and collapsed. Defensive frailtiies in abundance. The second half we somehow came back but it was pure desperation, going route one with Llorente. As a fan you don't care at the time, but when you look back and analyse it it wasn't convincing at all.

Could you imagine Klopp or Guardiola going route one like that? Look at how Liverpool played in Barcelona, they lost but they actually played well and stuck to their principles, it's just Messi had one of those nights. Came back to Anfield and just mauled them.

The CL Final was a pathetic insipid performance. We didn't even look pumped up for it. I think that should have set alarm bells ringing, the manner of our performance. Biggest game of the players lives and they played like a preseason friendly.

Who remembers how bad we were Fulham away? Worst team in the country and they battered us. We needed a Winks late goal to save us. I could continue to pick out all these abymal performances and games and noone can disagree with me about how poor we've been.

How many good performances have we had in 18 months? Even the start of last season we played poorly. it was only actually the Everton and Bournemouth games we played well. We also lost to Wolves at home badly around Xmas time, we were hardly Harlem Globetrotters.

This has been coming for ages, people saying it's kneejerk have buried their heads in the sands. The thing is, you get accused for being negative if you speak up too early, and also you have internal dialogue with yourself before you go public. Am I over reacting? If I voice my doubts people will shout me down for being a moaner? Maybe I am being a bit harsh and Poch will turn it around? I guess we've had off the field stuff to deal with / injuries etc etc You go through all of this. Anything to stop you realising the horrible reality that it seems the coach isn't doing as good a job as you thought he was, and maybe he isn't the man to lead us forward any longer.

Yeah TBF i don't think that anyone would defend the CL final display - we were shit.

 

[wrd]

I think we all deserved the right to air our frustrations and I certainly think that yesterday was the culmination rather than a knee jerk reaction.

Things havent been that enjoyable to watch for a long time, we have lived off of the fast food style last minute wins which taste good at the time but not great in the long term as opposed to the nourishment of a consistent game plan and performances.

I want things to change however I want Poch to be the one who changes them, I want him to be our fergy and im desperate for him to figure it out. The NLD is a write off for me regardless of win, loss, draw but what matters to me is what happens when the window closes and Poch can turn around this squad and start to improve on his own mistakes.

 

[Monkey boy]

He’s very high maintenance for somebody who has never won anything is all I’ll say.

 

[Thewobbler]

Whilst I appreciate this will be the info you/your source has been fed, Verts looked fine in the preseason games whilst Ndombele struggled with fitness, yet Verts can't even get a spot on the bench but Ndombele starts the first two games.

Add the fact that Verts has a black eye and whilst it could be a coincidence I have my doubts.

I don't buy his lacking fitness either. You can't have double standards. Kane is rushed back from injury time and time again, clearly not fit to start yet verts can't play because he isn't fit enough.

We have all heard about how intense pochs training is, you can't sit there and tell me that verts is unfit 3 weeks in to the season.