Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

-Afri-Coy- · Jan 20, 2023

mil1lion said:
Neither is football

fishhhandaricecake · Jan 20, 2023

Ginola+Tonic said:
View attachment 121432

Ohhhh shit ??‍

Not being rude but is the Paratici thread still open so we can put that in there?

TOLBINY · Jan 20, 2023

We got about 70M combined for Walker and Trippier - how well have we gone about spending that on RB replacements? Porro and Spence would cost less than that!

Ginola+Tonic · Jan 20, 2023

fishhhandaricecake said:
Not being rude but is the Paratici thread still open so we can put that in there?

No

wspur · Jan 20, 2023

The good thing about signing a RWB and a Conte favourite is that there is the intention to stay here for longer. Let's see, should have happened 2 weeks ago.

Whitey · Jan 20, 2023

FinnYid said:
Blatant wrong choice for longer term.

He had good impact on beaten down team. So had Mr. Gilet on 13/14. One had 56 in 28, other 42 in 22. Perhaps we should've sticked with Timmy and backed him massively?

Conte was never viewed as long term appointment? Was meant to be the win now appointment.... Pulled a rabbit out the hat for the 1st act... But even a magician needs new the tricks to keep putting on a show.....

Not sure how or why a portion of fans refuse to acknowledge how Levy runs this club.... Which is piss poor as footballing chairman.....

spurs mental · Jan 20, 2023

ralphs bald spot said:
never said that both are cupable and both should go - but at the end of day Conte wanted Bastoni he was never going to come that is down to him

Bastoni not coming is down to Conte? Seriously? If thats what you mean by that I genuinely dont know what planet you're on. If I'm misinterpreting it then can you make it clear what you actually mean?

ralphs bald spot said:
the wing back I can't remember being linked with one though who knows. the one that was bought he refuses to play so god knows if he is an improvement or not -

Clearly we would have liked someone like Dumfries or Hakimi if they were getable. They obviously weren't so we wasted time and money on someone he didn't want when we could have spent that money on someone useful in the squad.

ralphs bald spot said:
the midfield that so needed some creativity he went for Zaniolo over the gettable Maddison who he refused apparently but that's just hearsay but again the Italian lad wasn't going to leave Roma

Someone like Zaniolo. Maddison isn't wanted, is constantly injured and has a stinking attitude so I'm glad we didn't go for him. I want us to go for players the manager wants.

ralphs bald spot said:
plus we go over and over the crap football HIS team has produced and the lack of organisation on the pitch - in fact I thought it was the better performances last night - Levy is to blame but Conte does walk scot free and are linked together and both have made bad decisions

Klopp, Pep and Arteta, even Ten Hag have gotten the players they want. Its worked really well for them. Its worked incredibly well for Conte wherever else he has managed. If we give him what he wants and what he needs we'll be much better.

He doesn't walk off Scot free, and if you read his thread nobody is saying he isn't to blame for some of it. But we've given him some of what he wants, and seen it bear fruit from February last season. We've given him some of what he doesn't want and look what's happening.

He is the right man to turn this club around but the man at the top is the most culpable for the mess we are in now.

spurs mental · Jan 20, 2023

ralphs bald spot said:
do you not think that maybe looking at some different tactical solutions might not help those same players

They've played under 4 different managers, over the last 4 seasons now, in a variety of systems and it hasn't made them any better.

elfy · Jan 20, 2023

Trix said:
He's not devoid of blame, BIGGER PICTURE!!!

If the club came out today and said " we got it wrong with Conte, we want a project manager who plays to X philosophy and we are going to get the players in order to do that and compete I wouldn't be against them doing it.

They aren't though because their is no succession plan, there is no long term strategy and there isn't anyone leading the club competent enough to do so.

You want Conte gone, but unless you want this same shit again in a years time replacing the manager is pointless.

BIGGER PICTURE!!!

This is what it comes down to isn't it.

I was fully onboard the BSODL train when he was talking about 5 year plans, investing in youth, building the best training facilities in the country and raising our profile and revenue through the stadium to compete with the best.

I missed the part where after all the intelligent, well planned and expertly executed strategy the stack of papers on Levy's desk just say "WIN FINGS!"

Since the stadium was complete, the club has no focus, no plan. We've bounced from desperation to frugality (both in players and managers) , We've ignored youth yet won't pay for the finished product.

I can live with almost anything - I loved when we bought young players and gave them a shot, I would be equally happy if we targetted players like Richarlison from under the noses of rivals - but there has to be a PLAN.

I didn't, and still don't think Conte was the right appointment for us but as you say, it is moot.

The fact is, you appoint a manager like Conte (and to a lesser extent Mourinho too) - you commit to paying for the players he wants, and you have your eyes wide open to the fact it won't be cheap.

If we are going to take punts on young players or do bargain deals, you appoint an manager that suits that. That is not Conte.

I find it stagerring that after the last 20 odd years of Levy building progressively towards what I always assumed was being in a position to compete with anyone in the world, we are at this point and there is a complete lack of a plan, a philosophy, direction. It honestly just feels like Levy is out of ideas.

I can live with not winning anything (I am a Spurs fan after all!), but what I want is to compete. To go into a season thinking we have a chance. Where we are, with the person at the top of the club we have now - I just don't see it.

Danfunkel · Jan 20, 2023

Ginola+Tonic said:
Well they’re asking for Paratici to be suspended for 20 months.
He’s not suspended yet and that case still has to go to trial.

So common sense says it makes no difference for us right now and he can continue his usual duties for us until told otherwise.

We dont do common sense here ?

Mark_147 · Jan 20, 2023

H-SF said:
I think this thread is spot on and basically explains why I’d rather we started the big rebuild without Kane with a more progressive manager.

Last 2 champions Leagues have been won by Tuchel and Ancelotti. Ancelotti knocked out man city and beat Liverpool in the final. Tuchel beat city in the final.

JamieSpursCommunityUser · Jan 20, 2023

DiVaio said:
You can't force players to leave, and the club agreed deal with Club Brugge to sell Wanyama but it was him who couldn't agree personal terms or didn't want to leave.
The thing is - Poch improved most of the players he had at Spurs and most of them had their peak under Poch. You can't say this about Mourinho, the most improved Kane and Son we just became more reliant on them. Yeah, for example magically when Lo Celso, Foyth or Tanguy left Spurs they started to play very good again. Definitely coincidence, not a coaching problem.
To be honest Conte improved most of them until the last couple of games, and even those supposedly not good enough back 3 of Davies, Dier and Davinson kept 9 clean sheets and conceded only 5 goals in 12 games under Conte. But this doesn't work like that he deserves credit for their improvement but when they are regressing it's only their fault

And in this minutiae we've summed up our club's mentality perfectly.

You can't force players to leave, but players can't force Club's to register them in the 25.

If players know we're too weak to replace them first, then there's still a hope. Especially when the manager changes, which also creates bad incentives.

Wanyama won't go to Brugge, and more attractive club's don't want him?

I guess he'll have to stay with us, and we'll roll without a replacement and Winks + Sissoko, eventually spend £10-15m on Manager sackings, and finish 6th.

OR say

"Victor mate, you were great for us but your injuries have caught up and it's over. You won't be in the 25 as there's no room because we've bought your replacement.

If you won't go to Brugge, or even on a loan to buy - then you won't be playing any football this year I'm afraid. Up to you."

You can't do that with 5 players in 1 window, but no club should ever be so mis-managed that they would ever need to.

Arsenal have been ruthless at moving players on. We haven't.

g_harry · Jan 20, 2023

H-SF said:
I think this thread is spot on and basically explains why I’d rather we started the big rebuild without Kane with a more progressive manager.

Carragher talks pure crap anyone ask him who the champions league last year. The game when Teeth was crying after they had more possession and shots.

H-SF · Jan 20, 2023

Mark_147 said:
Last 2 champions Leagues have been won by Tuchel and Ancelotti. Ancelotti knocked out man city and beat Liverpool in the final. Tuchel beat city in the final.

1) my point is more relevant to league campaigns, I appreciate that more pragmatic football can still work well in cups
2) Tuchel sides press a lot higher than Conte and Ancelotti teams so that comparison shouldn’t really be made.

Chimbo! · Jan 20, 2023

Conte’s excuse yesterday that we would have protected the 2-0 lead if we had bought more experienced players is pathetic. Plenty of teams with less money and less talented players have seen out 2 goals leads or protected their position against City, or frankly conceded fewer goals.

a bad workman blames his tools.

g_harry · Jan 20, 2023

Mark_147 said:
Last 2 champions Leagues have been won by Tuchel and Ancelotti. Ancelotti knocked out man city and beat Liverpool in the final. Tuchel beat city in the final.

Sorry just seen your post after I responded to Carragher video. Spot on

Yiddo100 · Jan 20, 2023

Chimbo! said:
Conte’s excuse yesterday that we would have protected the 2-0 lead if we had bought more experienced players is pathetic.

a bad workman blames his tools.

When his tools are faulty and blunt and his employer refuses to buy him new ones, I’d say he’s well within his rights.

rossdapep · Jan 20, 2023

JamieSpursCommunityUser said:
Poch burned out after years of managing a declining team. He had nothing new to teach them.

He wanted rid of Wanyama, Rose etc but the club refused because they didn't want to face a painful and expensive rebuilt.

Levy thought he knew best, kicked the can down the road, and began our terminal decline.

Mourinho didn't improve the same players Poch wasn't improving, Nuno didn't improve, and Conte hasn't improved.

How many players have they improved in their careers? Do we seriously think this is a coaching problem?

Nuno was only here because the club didn't have a plan, and the word was out that Levy is difficult to work with.

That lot down the road are top with lower revenues than ours. Their owners are business people too. They have an ambitious plan and are executing it aggressively.

They pushed players out, stuck to the technical blueprint for signings undistracted by chasing bargains, and were prepared to act quickly and decisively to take hits on any transfer mistakes and keep moving forward.

We had a massive advantage on them this summer both in revenues and CL football, and we've squandered it.

Go back and look at what AVB said about the Bale 7. It's more or less exactly what we did this summer. Exactly. We bought mostly investments and temp fillers. Richarlison aside, we didn't attack the problems. Throw in some new problems with Lloris and Son and we've fallen apart.

This is a straw man argument. The issue with Levy isn't that he didn't spend £300m we didn't have.

I want us to spend, with ambition and discipline within the tactical and technical vision of the coach. Spend what we can afford. No more, no less.

The argument on Levy is the interfering on players out, and players in.

Sticking to bad investments until they stink the place out. Rigidly buying low and selling high.

If we're a big club we can afford to replace a £50m RB we sold 5 years ago with a £40m back 2, 3, 4 windows ago.

We've wasted more time, money, and opportunity cost trying to replace Walker on the cheap, and refusing to do what it takes to move our mistakes on.

We don't act decisively and assertively if a player won't leave. We're a soft touch and they know it. So they ride it out until the next manager arrives and the cycle starts again.

This culture has been created by the Board's actions.

The sad thing is it's within Levy's power to change this if he wanted. But he's either unable or willing to change. So I want him gone.

All of this.

The Walker example is a great one because the club have actually tried to approach it with different angles, except the one that we should have done.

Aurier - Unwanted at his current club at the time, once hyped up. Can get for half the fee received for Walker. Different player to Walker though.

Doherty - Cheap stop-gap option.

Emerson - see Aurier

Spence - An future investment - same case as Walker. So essentially full circle.

In reality, the club didn't do what you rightly pointed out, sign a RB that had the athleticism quality that Walker had. Probably because like everything, Levy thought he'd be clever and sign for half the price and by another potential player elsewhere in the team.

What Levy hasn't been able to grasp is that if you replace quality with quality, eventually you will be able to buy young prospects and develop them with less pressure and more time.

rossdapep · Jan 20, 2023

JamieSpursCommunityUser said:
And in this minutiae we've summed up our club's mentality perfectly.

You can't force players to leave, but players can't force Club's to register them in the 25.

If players know we're took weak to replace them first, then there's still a hope. Especially when the manager changes, which also creates bad incentives.

Wanyama won't go to Brugge, and more attractive club's don't want him?

I guess he'll have to stay with us, and we'll roll without a replacement and Winks + Sissoko, eventually spend £10-15m on Manager sackings, and finish 6th.

OR say

"Victor mate, you were great for us but your injuries have caught up and it's over. You won't be in the 25 as there's no room because we've bought your replacement.

If you won't go to Brugge, or even on a loan to buy - then you won't be playing any football this year I'm afraid. Up to you."

You can't do that with 5 players in 1 window, but no club should ever be so mis-managed that they would ever need to.

Arsenal have been ruthless at moving players on. We haven't.

The Danny Rose/Levy scenario in the AON doc highlighted everything wrong with the club.

How can a player walk up to the chairman, whilst he's eating his breakfast, and demand to know if AC Milan are still in for him? IN front of all the other staff...

That should only happen behind closed doors and I wonder if Levy is too close to the players at times so it creates this awkwardness between them where Levy is afraid to say exactly what you've just suggested.

ultimateloner · Jan 20, 2023

JamieSpursCommunityUser said:
And in this minutiae we've summed up our club's mentality perfectly.

You can't force players to leave, but players can't force Club's to register them in the 25.

If players know we're took weak to replace them first, then there's still a hope. Especially when the manager changes, which also creates bad incentives.

Wanyama won't go to Brugge, and more attractive club's don't want him?

I guess he'll have to stay with us, and we'll roll without a replacement and Winks + Sissoko, eventually spend £10-15m on Manager sackings, and finish 6th.

OR say

"Victor mate, you were great for us but your injuries have caught up and it's over. You won't be in the 25 as there's no room because we've bought your replacement.

If you won't go to Brugge, or even on a loan to buy - then you won't be playing any football this year I'm afraid. Up to you."

You can't do that with 5 players in 1 window, but no club should ever be so mis-managed that they would ever need to.

Arsenal have been ruthless at moving players on. We haven't.

You are being naive.
If I was Wanyama and you said that to me I would say 'ok' and not play for 1 year.
You are paying me the same amount, and on top of that took the risk of buying a replacement and paying his wages as well.
You shoulder all the risk and I take none. It's very costly and might not even work.

Good business doesn't work like that.

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