A positive article on Pochettino and Levy (by Marcotti)

[Spurs 1961]

I think in the main they, journalists, are best described as venal cockroaches. I hate them in all in their many guises.

I think you might be surprised to know that there are journalists who dislike their so called 'fellow' professionals as much as you do. Indeed there really are journalists with real integrity. Now politicians, 'successful' businessmen, football agents, estate agents, lawyers, well now we are hitting rock bottom

 

[SteveH]

I think you might be surprised to know that there are journalists who dislike their so called 'fellow' professionals as much as you do. Indeed there really are journalists with real integrity. Now politicians, 'successful' businessmen, football agents, estate agents, lawyers, well now we are hitting rock bottom

Journolist are at the bottom for me, they just dont care about who they hurt, thier story comes first with people and facts a poor second.

 

[SpurSince57]

If you look at that list, it would suggest that clubs change coach until they find the right one, and only when success follows do they stick (or try to). Indeed that's the pattern at all clubs even Utd and Arsenal.

There is a further circumstance that some clubs have suffered and that is that you find the right one and then he's poached by a bigger club. It's perhaps damning of Levy that other than AVB's reported rejection of PSG last summer, none of our coaches have gone onto be poached or even sought after by larger clubs than us.

Anyway, assuming he's not poached, and he's not pulling up trees either, the question then becomes how long do you give him and what particular circumstances trigger a sacking?

I think you keep him if the over all team is improving and doing so in a way that can be linked to the quality of his coaching. You keep him if he's working well with the structures at the club, he's helping bring the kids through and with identifying transfer targets. You keep him even if finishing positions are at the lower end of the desired range if there are extenuating circumstances, such as happened this season where your star man left and you had to integrate a scratch team.

You sack him if his own interests have diverged from the interests of the club and he's working in his own interests. If you don't feel the team is improving due to his coaching, he's not helping bring the kids through and his transfer targets are self-serving, short-termist, and/or unrealistic, and if the team is performing way below what you judge it's potential to be for a prolonged period of time, if he's lost the faith of his players and the management team above him, through his words, actions, or performance, then you sack him.

And interestingly, Everton's performance this season has placed a question mark against Kenwright's backing of Moyes for all these years. Martinez' 72 points was nine points better than 2012-13, seven points better than their best EPL finish in 2008, and 16 points better than their average under Moyes.

 

[Mullers]

And interestingly, Everton's performance this season has placed a question mark against Kenwright's backing of Moyes for all these years. Martinez' 72 points was nine points better than 2012-13, seven points better than their best EPL finish in 2008, and 16 points better than their average under Moyes.

Who is placing that question mark? Everton fans?

 

[SpurSince57]

Who is placing that question mark? Everton fans?

No, silly. I am—although it wouldn't surprise me if some Everton fans aren't wondering what's been going on.

 

[Mullers]

No, silly. I am—although it wouldn't surprise me if some Everton fans aren't wondering what's been going on.

It would surprise me, they have only been outside the top 8 twice since he was appointed. We've been outside the top 8 four times during that period.

 

[walworthyid]

So it doesn't matter if you change coach every other season.

Great. Thanks for clearing that up.

Not when the manager isn't cutting the mustard. Jol=had to go santini= had to go hoddle= had to go harry=had to go ramos=had to go avb= had to go sherwood=had to go graham= gooner.

What would you or the majority of clubs done any different with those managers and those circumstances?

 

[NEVILLEB]

Not when the manager isn't cutting the mustard. Jol=had to go santini= had to go hoddle= had to go harry=had to go ramos=had to go avb= had to go sherwood=had to go graham= gooner.

What would you or the majority of clubs done any different with those managers and those circumstances?

I would hope to have been a better judge of character in the recruitment phase.

I probably wouldn't have employed Santini, Jol, Ramos, Sherwood and definitely not AVB.

Hoddle and then Redknapp when in trouble I understand.

Poch looks one of the most logical acquisitions Levy has made. Plays good football, young, premier league experience, speaks English, youth focused and ambitious.

 

[SpurSince57]

It would surprise me, they have only been outside the top 8 twice since he was appointed. We've been outside the top 8 four times during that period.

Why yes, and if top eight is what floats your boat, that's absolutely triff. After all, eighth is par for them, since they have the eighth-highest turnover in the league. They've even beaten par a few times.

But the perception has always been that Moyes got the absolute maximum out of his relatively limited resources. Then along comes Martinez and not only gains them their best league position since they lucked fourth in 2005, but blows Moyes' points record into the weeds. It wouldn't surprise me if some Everton fans aren't wondering if Kenwright did the right thing in persisting with Old Oyster Eyes. If last season turns out not to have been a fluke, a lot more will.

 

[newbie]

Why did jol have to go ?

If we had signed a couple of exp players like he asked for rather than to many young in exp players we would have been fine we needed a center half badly I think jol was great for spurs we just needed to strengthen. When Ramos arrived we signed in jan Woodgate I think that really helped. Then the next window we sold Keane, Defoe (went window before) and berbatov and singed dross upfront wonder why we did so badly. Not defending Ramos but we make the same mistake every year we sell our best players and change the squad to much how many players starting players where there from Rednapps team to AVB s first season how many from AVB first season to his second season?

 

[NEVILLEB]

Why did jol have to go ?

If we had signed a couple of exp players like he asked for rather than to many young in exp players we would have been fine we needed a center half badly I think jol was great for spurs we just needed to strengthen. When Ramos arrived we signed in jan Woodgate I think that really helped. Then the next window we sold Keane, Defoe (went window before) and berbatov and singed dross upfront wonder why we did so badly. Not defending Ramos but we make the same mistake every year we sell our best players and change the squad to much how many players starting players where there from Rednapps team to AVB s first season how many from AVB first season to his second season?

I liked Jol. He did struggle against the top 4.

 

[Metalhead]

Why did jol have to go ?

If we had signed a couple of exp players like he asked for rather than to many young in exp players we would have been fine we needed a center half badly I think jol was great for spurs we just needed to strengthen. When Ramos arrived we signed in jan Woodgate I think that really helped. Then the next window we sold Keane, Defoe (went window before) and berbatov and singed dross upfront wonder why we did so badly. Not defending Ramos but we make the same mistake every year we sell our best players and change the squad to much how many players starting players where there from Rednapps team to AVB s first season how many from AVB first season to his second season?

I do miss MJ. If I remember rightly, wasn't the story that MJ had pretty much said that being 5th was a big achievement for Spurs and Levy thought that he was content with achieving 5th place so panicked and went for Ramos.

 

[NEVILLEB]

I do miss MJ. If I remember rightly, wasn't the story that MJ had pretty much said that being 5th was a big achievement for Spurs and Levy thought that he was content with achieving 5th place so panicked and went for Ramos.

I think MJ got sacked because Levy gets bored.

Ramos couldn't even speak English so I don't know why Levy thought he desperately needed him.

 

[SpurSince57]

I do miss MJ. If I remember rightly, wasn't the story that MJ had pretty much said that being 5th was a big achievement for Spurs and Levy thought that he was content with achieving 5th place so panicked and went for Ramos.

Jol was definitely off-message, but there was no panic. We were hearing that Comolli and Kemsley wanted him out as early as summer 2006, and Jol said that he was very aware of the machinations against him. I've also heard that Ramos approached us shortly after the end of the 2006-07 season, presumably through his pal, self-styled 'Mr Fixit' Tony Jimenez, who was at the Rey Alfonso with Kemsley, Alexander and Ramos when the gaff was blown. Jimenez is well in with Poyet and Wise—before he became a property developer and 'international businessman' he was a security man at Chelsea—and was also involved with Ashley at Newcastle, where he became VP and was at one time in charge of player recruitment. He's also pally with Kemsley.

 

[Original # 10]

I've always found Gab incredibly knowledgable but at times using too much knowledge to try and back up an opinion that doesn't necessarily require such back up.

In this instance I applaud his approach. Superb article

 

[Metalhead]

I think MJ got sacked because Levy gets bored.

Ramos couldn't even speak English so I don't know why Levy thought he desperately needed him.

I'm sure that in hindsight, Levy realises what a mistake he made. With that being said, would we have made that extra jump under MJ? He's never really been the same since he left Spurs.

 

[Metalhead]

I've always found Gab incredibly knowledgable but at times using too much knowledge to try and back up an opinion that doesn't necessarily require such back up.

In this instance I applaud his approach. Superb article

It was good. I bet Levy would have liked it!

 

[SFCS]

Jol was sacked because we had 1 win in our opening 10 league games, people.

Yes it was handled very badly and yes he wasn't the only one to blame but when the only team you've beaten in a quarter of a season is Derby, who set a record low points total, then you're in trouble.

I love Jol and appreciate all he did for us but the sacking wasn't unwarranted, or just because he Levy got bored. If we hadn't got it badly wrong with appointing Ramos then I don't think anyone would still be questioning sacking Jol.

 

[cockerel downunder]

Journolist are at the bottom for me, they just dont care about who they hurt, thier story comes first with people and facts a poor second.

I think you might be reading the wrong newspaper... Some of them care deeply about journalistic integrity.

 

[Mullers]

Why yes, and if top eight is what floats your boat, that's absolutely triff. After all, eighth is par for them, since they have the eighth-highest turnover in the league. They've even beaten par a few times.

But the perception has always been that Moyes got the absolute maximum out of his relatively limited resources. Then along comes Martinez and not only gains them their best league position since they lucked fourth in 2005, but blows Moyes' points record into the weeds. It wouldn't surprise me if some Everton fans aren't wondering if Kenwright did the right thing in persisting with Old Oyster Eyes. If last season turns out not to have been a fluke, a lot more will.

More than a few times, they've regularly punched above their weight during Moyes time in charge there. 6th place finish in his last season there, two 7th place finishes before that. They haven't won a trophy but we haven't exactly been brilliant at doing that ourselves.
It would have been extremely harsh to sack him. I don't think last season was a fluke but a out of sorts Man Utd and our up and down season helped them out a bit.
If we get our act together as well as United, I think it will be a different story next season.