Arsenal

[hellava_tough]

Really odd revolving door now. Are Arsenal now Chelsea's feeder club?

Surely Chelsea feed Arsenal?

Arsenal are Chelsea's recycling service.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Arsenal have a book balancing sale every summer now. The Europa League kitty won't cover those mad wages,

 

[Metalhead]

And as I explained, how can you “not understand the fuss” at 55 people (not just scouts) losing their job while the club throws millions at more mediocre footballers.

I hope you don’t work in PR.

Maybe they’re just paying one person to watch YouTube videos.

 

[Kingellesar]

So if they sell Lacazette and Maitland Niles but bring in Willian.....surely they are just stepping sideways. There never seems to be a plan with them, its a bit like a Football Manager team. Just grab whatever is made available and hope it all clicks.

 

[hellava_tough]

So if they sell Lacazette and Maitland Niles but bring in Willian.....surely they are just stepping sideways. There never seems to be a plan with them, its a bit like a Football Manager team. Just grab whatever is made available and hope it all clicks.

Seem to be treading water as their squad value declines.

If they had any sense, they should keep Lacazette and sell PEA because, as said, their squad value wouldn't suffer as much.

And Willian, although a good player, also has an impact on this.

They're starting to remind me of Spurs in the 90s; a few great attacking players, mediocre midfield, crap defence, no squad depth and a modest transfer budget.

Plus, an ex player managing them lol.

 

[spursfan77]

Arsenal have a book balancing sale every summer now. The Europa League kitty won't cover those mad wages,

Arteta has said they are a Europa League club paying Champions League wages. It seems like they aren't going to stop doing that either. They won't get champions league next season so will be in the same position next summer but a year further on with older players. From the outside it just looks like they are being used to get agents rich. I wonder if Edu also gets a bonus every time he signs a player too.

Hopefully it will be a disaster and a great watch along the way!

 

[McArchibald]

Most players they're linked with are from Kia Joorabchian's stable... It seems he has an iron grip on transfer dealings at the Emirates.
Not sure the Goons will get the better of that particular bargain. It seems desperate times call for desperate measures...

 

[C0YS]

Thing is Arsenal are actually financially as well off as you can be. The last published records showed 70 million profit in 17/18 and 45 million the year before. They have minimal debts as well. Meanwhile, wages to turnover was at 60% which is not optimal but puts them mid table for wages to turnover. They did make losses of 32 million in 18/19 though, but still.

Arsenal are about as strong position you can be in going into COVID, the decision was very simple. The board decided that they didn't want to take temporary loses of what might be, one or two seasons. Loses that they could easily cover from past profits.

The reason for the redundancies is greed, simple as that. I also believe it will be disastrous, getting rid of all that recruitment knowledge that takes years and years to build up, not just in identifying players but also in terms of practical and technical skills and a functioning departmental culture.

They are presumably shifting that role to data scientists, which have limitations, and agents, who don't have club interests at heart, sounds very very stupid and could lead to a mid-term decline for Arsenal. You can't just rebuild these departments as quickly as you destroy them.

The thing is , I feel sorry for arsenal fans, and again, reminded that ENIC have their problems but it could be so much worse. The moves are beyond reason no matter how you cut it.

 

[topper]

Thing is Arsenal are actually financially as well off as you can be. The last published records showed 70 million profit in 17/18 and 45 million the year before. They have minimal debts as well. Meanwhile, wages to turnover was at 60% which is not optimal but puts them mid table for wages to turnover.

Arsenal are about as strong position you can be in going into COVID, the decision was very simple. The board decided that they didn't want to take temporary loses of what might be, one or two seasons. Loses that they could easily cover from past profits.

The reason for the redundancies is greed, simple as that. I also believe it will be disastrous, getting rid of all that recruitment knowledge that takes years and years to build up, not just in identifying players but also in terms of practical and technical skills and a functioning departmental culture.

They are presumably shifting that role to data scientists, which have limitations, and agents, who don't have club interests at heart, sounds very very stupid and could lead to a mid-term decline for Arsenal. You can't just rebuild these departments as quickly as you destroy them.

The thing is , I feel sorry for arsenal fans, and again, reminded that ENIC have their problems but it could be so much worse. The moves are beyond reason no matter how you cut it.

Hope that very brief moment has now passed?

 

[C0YS]

Hope that very brief moment has now passed?

Mate, people lost their jobs. The club has let people down. The theatre of football matters so much less.

 

[spursfan77]

Thing is Arsenal are actually financially as well off as you can be. The last published records showed 70 million profit in 17/18 and 45 million the year before. They have minimal debts as well. Meanwhile, wages to turnover was at 60% which is not optimal but puts them mid table for wages to turnover. They did make losses of 32 million in 18/19 though, but still.

Arsenal are about as strong position you can be in going into COVID, the decision was very simple. The board decided that they didn't want to take temporary loses of what might be, one or two seasons. Loses that they could easily cover from past profits.

The reason for the redundancies is greed, simple as that. I also believe it will be disastrous, getting rid of all that recruitment knowledge that takes years and years to build up, not just in identifying players but also in terms of practical and technical skills and a functioning departmental culture.

They are presumably shifting that role to data scientists, which have limitations, and agents, who don't have club interests at heart, sounds very very stupid and could lead to a mid-term decline for Arsenal. You can't just rebuild these departments as quickly as you destroy them.

The thing is , I feel sorry for arsenal fans, and again, reminded that ENIC have their problems but it could be so much worse. The moves are beyond reason no matter how you cut it.

You might want to check their more recent set of accounts. They are utterly fucked without champions league football and the longer they go without it the worse it will get for them!



and they’ve had to do this to generate any kind of funds for transfers whatsoever nevermind pay off their terrible stadium financing.



Honestly, they are going one direction without a massive slice of luck (unfortunately they always seem to get it)

 

[C0YS]

You might want to check their more recent set of accounts. They are utterly fucked without champions league football and the longer they go without it the worse it will get for them!

That's not fucked, and if you read the whole thread you'll see that. They have issues. But they should be able to ride through them considering how much profit they have made in previous seasons. Those accounts show that they are running on the assumption of CL football, but 30 mil in losses is not as big as it sounds in a footballing context, and again the gains in previous seasons can easily cover these costs.

Low player trading profits, while continued expenditure hurt them, but looking at the broader picture, they've milked the club for a lot of money!

 

['O Zio]

Pandemic hitting them so hard they have to let 55 staff go but they have the money/budget to try and sign Willian and attempt to give PEA a new contract whilst Ozil sits on the bench and doesn't play but gets 350k per week?

Arsenal announce 55 staff redundancies

Arsenal plan to make 55 staff redundant because of the financial impact of the coronavirus pandemic.

www.bbc.co.uk

Obviously I feel awful for the people who've lost their jobs, but I do think it's a bit of a case of apples and oranges comparing the players and the random behind the scenes people at the club.

To play devils advocate a bit, presumably the logic is that by spending money retaining a player like PEA, or signing a player like Willian, the club will end up making more money due to being more successful in the long run or getting more of a transfer fee for PEA. As important as all the random admin staff etc. are to the running of the club, they don't have anything like as much potential to generate money for the business as the players do.

When times are hard as a business, you can try and cut costs e.g. by cutting jobs that you can get by without, but there are some ways of cutting costs that are actually damaging to the business, it can end up being false economy. If Arsenal stopped buying players/renewing contracts then they'd save money on the short term but would ultimately be likely to lose money due to worse league positions, less merchandise sold, players leaving for free at the end of contracts etc. So the argument that if they can afford to sign players then they can afford to keep the staff on doesn't really make much sense.

Obviously there's the wider discussion as to weather the amount of money that's swirling around football in general is a good thing, but that's a separate point.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

It is mildly amusing that they try not to mention Tottenham in their comparative........but then just get to a point where they can't omit us! Shows how well Levy has done on the financials side of things, and a real kick in the nuts that Covid came along..

 

[C0YS]

Obviously I feel awful for the people who've lost their jobs, but I do think it's a bit of a case of apples and oranges comparing the players and the random behind the scenes people at the club.

To play devils advocate a bit, presumably the logic is that by spending money retaining a player like PEA, or signing a player like Willian, the club will end up making more money due to being more successful in the long run or getting more of a transfer fee for PEA. As important as all the random admin staff etc. are to the running of the club, they don't have anything like as much potential to generate money for the business as the players do.

When times are hard as a business, you can try and cut costs e.g. by cutting jobs that you can get by without, but there are some ways of cutting costs that are actually damaging to the business, it can end up being false economy. If Arsenal stopped buying players/renewing contracts then they'd save money on the short term but would ultimately be likely to lose money due to worse league positions, less merchandise sold, players leaving for free at the end of contracts etc. So the argument that if they can afford to sign players then they can afford to keep the staff on doesn't really make much sense.

Obviously there's the wider discussion as to weather the amount of money that's swirling around football in general is a good thing, but that's a separate point.

What's interesting, is that getting rid of scouting staff and heading to agent led recruitment is most likely to be financially damaging in the long term. Scouting costs little, but a good scouting network generates profits in results and in signing young talent that can be sold for a profit.

With the other staff my problem is definitely towards the business led aspect of football, though it will save them, what 2 mill a year, absolute max. Football clubs are both, rarely profitable and not comparable to other businesses. During hard times for people, clubs should not be laying off vulnerable workers, there's no excuse because they are financially capable of taking that loss. Clubs are run like businesses but are not comparable to most companies, again, few are run for profit and none were created with profit in mind.

I am idealistic, but we need to hold football clubs into account and remind them that they were created by the community and work for the community. The marketisation of football is terrible, but is how it is, but this doesn't mean we should not hold them into account and put pressure on them to do the correct thing.

Arsenal are going through 'hard times' in a very shallow way. They are financially fine, the issues are that their ability to generate income has not increased like other clubs, and they are slipping behind. But, this reflecting their on field performance. Arsenal hire a lot of staff, almost twice as much as we do. Now, this may well need to be cut, but this is not the time to restructure clubs, this is the time to give back and support the community and families. To not do so, from the standpoint of a football club is ethically questionable.

 

[hellava_tough]

That's not fucked, and if you read the whole thread you'll see that. They have issues. But they should be able to ride through them considering how much profit they have made in previous seasons. Those accounts show that they are running on the assumption of CL football, but 30 mil in losses is not as big as it sounds in a footballing context, and again the gains in previous seasons can easily cover these costs.

Low player trading profits, while continued expenditure hurt them, but looking at the broader picture, they've milked the club for a lot of money!

I think overall you're right; currently they'll be fine financially.

However, it depends what Kroneke's loan structure is like. Let's face it, does anyone trust him?

Also, their player trading and squad value is becoming an issue. They're paying big wages to players for mediocre results on the pitch, and losing out on value in player trading as contracts run down.

It's unlikely they'll financially implode, but I could see them cementing mid-table status if they're not careful.

PS I've also talked about relegation battles, but I don't want to open that can of worms again lol

 

[Dillspur]

That's not fucked, and if you read the whole thread you'll see that. They have issues. But they should be able to ride through them considering how much profit they have made in previous seasons. Those accounts show that they are running on the assumption of CL football, but 30 mil in losses is not as big as it sounds in a footballing context,

I just wanted to point out, they went from 70m in profits to 30m in loses, that represents a loss of 100m, they have lost out again on the CL, they have to pay towards Pepe and that french defender, they could easily post loses of 50-100m again.

 

[spursfan77]

That's not fucked, and if you read the whole thread you'll see that. They have issues. But they should be able to ride through them considering how much profit they have made in previous seasons. Those accounts show that they are running on the assumption of CL football, but 30 mil in losses is not as big as it sounds in a footballing context, and again the gains in previous seasons can easily cover these costs.

Low player trading profits, while continued expenditure hurt them, but looking at the broader picture, they've milked the club for a lot of money!

When I say fucked I mean they aren't going to get back to those level of profits or high positions in the table without Champions League football. Say they go another 2 or 3 years without it whilst paying champions league level salaries it isn't going to be pretty for them. Their stadium is badly financed compared to us. They are heading towards mid table if they don't qualify for the champions league soon. Plus they have no fans in their stadium which was their cash cow. Sure we don't but we have the £175m loan to cover those losses while we try and continue as normal. Kronke isn't going to put any money in to rescue them (not that our owners would) but without a lucky season they aren't going anywhere. Hopefully they are on a slide to become another west ham.

 

[he is you know!]

Ornstein says they will entertain offers for Lacazette, assuming that PEA signs.

 

[jurgen]

Kane backup