England Vs France: QF

[rossdapep]

Oh ffs. Its not a matter of doing anything overly wrong. It's an issue of not doing anything outstandingly right. What big match have England won under Southgate that they weren't expected to? Just how long in the job is he supposed to get off the back of these par performances before someone else gets a go? If he'd done an Alf Ramsey I'd get it, but every added 2-4 years is a huge swathe of time in football terms.

Southgate's done better than fine, but he had the fortune of coming into the job on the cusp of an exceptional generation of talent, such as wasn't available to previous coaches, along with quite favourable draws (prior to this tournament) and basically home advantage two years ago.

International football is not club football. There's a far smaller sample size upon which to judge performance. Give Gareth the benefit of the doubt sure, I'm not saying he's at enormously at fault, but here goes another few years if we stick with him. Pretty much an entire generation of talent was used up on par performances during the Eriksson years. Is Southgate to have the same luxury before someone else gets a go?

International management should be treated somewhat akin to political cycles imo. 2-4 year terms, to be extended only in the event of exceptional achievement (relative to circumstances and squad strength, Southgates accomplishments have not met that standard imo). We needn't be waiting for a non-qualification or group stage knock out before freshening things up imo.

I have to agree.

There isn't much signs there that point to things getting even better under Southgate and by that I mean winning.

Speaking to some French players now (not French internationals) and they aren't crazy about Deschamps and agree England should have won but they also state that this French team just find a way to win.

We can't say that about Southgate and England sadly.

There's a lot of convincing performances there and the group is very together but when it comes to the crunch you have to simply find a way.

He's done very well Southgate but the real fine details need a coach/manager (and players) who can win it

 

[nedley]

not even close. That ref lost handle of the game and it descended into 15 yellows. This was nothing in comparison, people are just angry the game didn't go there way which is understandable

Both absolute toilet.

 

[DarwinSpur]

I'm no way near as much as an England fan as I am a Spurs fan but I am still a bit gutted. However the ref had a shocking game, I know there is a lot of pressure on them but wow, I think the England players till well to keep their temper tbh.

Unless something been said I've missed the England team have behaved better than a lot of other teams in a World Cup marred by some pretty disgraceful dissent and bad sportsmanship after the final whistle

 

[Hitch]

not even close. That ref lost handle of the game and it descended into 15 yellows. This was nothing in comparison, people are just angry the game didn't go there way which is understandableRe

No one could be as bad as with the Argie Dutch game, but come on fgs the ref tonight was wank. Objections towards his performance can hardly be so easily minimzed as simply equating to bitterness.

 

[PCozzie]

I have to agree.

There isn't much signs there that point to things getting even better under Southgate and by that I mean winning.

Speaking to some French players now (not French internationals) and they aren't crazy about Deschamps and agree England should have won but they also state that this French team just find a way to win.

We can't say that about Southgate and England sadly.

There's a lot of convincing performances there and the group is very together but when it comes to the crunch you have to simply find a way.

He's done very well Southgate but the real fine details need a coach/manager (and players) who can win it

Winners win.

I like Southgate both as a person and as a manager, but his time has probably come to an end with England. He's given us a really good base to work from and the future looks good. There's no need for defenestration, he deserves time to announce that he's moving on.

 

[Rogmeister]

Cant believe people have NEG'D me. His penalty was dog shit.let go of emotion and see the truth.

We lost because he missed it

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

What's Southgate done wrong here? People thought we were going to lose tonight prior to the tournament anyway and probably though France would run riot, which they haven't. Yes we lost, but we could easily have won.

I think Southgate should step down - not for losing tonight.

National teams, like club teams can grow stale, and sometimes you need a new voice with fresh ideas. I think Southgate has run his course for England, and now they need a new voice at the top.

Also - I will give credit to Southgate for two things -he was correct in picking Maguire for the squad. Maguire may be out for form for United, but he did provide an important part of set-pieces for England. And, Southgate got the defensive set-up right. England were well organized in defense, and I think Southgate should get credit for recognizing that the key to winning tournaments is a strong defensive set-up.

I think Southgate failed though, in the tactics, selection, and execution of any attacking intent. None of the attacking players seemed to have a defined role, and none played particularly well with others - it's like they all had their own individual ideas of how best to attack. A manager has to take responsibility here - identify the right tactics, pick players who will fit those tactics, and will follow those instructions. Southgate did not do that.

 

[Typical Spurs]

I'm not disappointed we lost. I'm disappointed we just didn't turn up first half.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Cant believe people have NEG'D me. His penalty was dog shit.let go of emotion and see the truth.

We lost because he missed it

You are clearly just looking for reactions.

But - even if Kane scores, it does not mean England would have gone on to win - thus its not his "fault" because he missed.

Also - if Maguire puts the open header on target, England would also have been back in the game. Teams win and lose over the course of 90 minutes - one instance does not typically define a match.

 

[riggi]

Let’s be real here...who cares other than northern pub league fans. I’m well over it.

 

[cjbyid]

Another weekend closer to spurs returning at the end of the day.....

Quite enjoying Spurs not ruining my weekends truth be told

 

[Klinsmannesque]

Cant believe people have NEG'D me. His penalty was dog shit.let go of emotion and see the truth.

We lost because he missed it

You’re a knob. I was sat with a few Arsenal fans tonight and even they understood the pressure he was under. 2nd penalty of the game, against his club team mate, 82nd min on the worlds biggest stage. Nothing prepares you for that

 

[DarwinSpur]

I'm not disappointed we lost. I'm disappointed we just didn't turn up first half.

Wut? England were much the better side first half

 

[Norgie]

You’re a knob. I was sat with a few Arsenal fans tonight and even they understood the pressure he was under. 2nd penalty of the game, against his club team mate, 82nd min on the worlds biggest stage. Nothing prepares you for that

Agree 100%, the psychological difference between the first and second is massive and that's not even taking into account the time on the clock. Once you have slotted one and have to decide on what to do with the second, do you go same side, opposite side or down the middle. It must have gone round and round his head what to do, then there is the time pressure, it was all on his shoulders and the weight must have been huge.

 

[nailsy]

He’s right though and he know what it took to win.

Why was he such a shit manager then?

Did he forget to tell his teams that they need to win games?

 

[rossdapep]

I'm not disappointed we lost. I'm disappointed we just didn't turn up first half.

England either perform 2 ways in these huge KO games.

Play well but don't get the rub of the green or make moments count.

Play pretty poorly and offer little, succumbing to quality from the opposition.

Today was certainly not the latter.

 

[ljinko888]

I don't think Southgate did anything wrong. People say subs were too late but we were on top and had them backpeddling for a good 25 minutes of the second half so I can see why you don't want to change that. And for the first half we weren't that good but it was a long range strike that was the difference. France didn't create anything.

 

[Klinsmannesque]

Agree 100%, the psychological difference between the first and second is massive and that's not even taking into account the time on the clock. Once you have slotted one and have to decide on what to do with the second, do you go same side, opposite side or down the middle. It must have gone round and round his head what to do, then there is the time pressure, it was all on his shoulders and the weight must have been huge.

I think tonight was just one of those that the boys did well, could have gone either way, fine margins edged it and they can all walk away proud of what they gave. No ill feelings from me for manager or players, just shared disappointment in what could have been

 

[Typical Spurs]

England either perform 2 ways in these huge KO games.

Play well but don't get the rub of the green or make moments count.

Play pretty poorly and offer little, succumbing to quality from the opposition.

Today was certainly not the latter.

Yeah, I just felt like we were too slow and ponderous first half. Second half, came out and had a go and were much the better team.

 

[rossdapep]

Yeah, I just felt like we were too slow and ponderous first half. Second half, came out and had a go and were much the better team.

I thought we were fine. Had some chances and France didn't do too much.

I did however feel like this was going to be one of those games where the first goal would be so crucial.

I just knew if France got in front England would struggle to turn it around and France going behind would have suited England. Even when we equalised I never allowed myself to believe we'd do it.

It just feels like it's never a possibility for England in these big moments.

Something is missing