Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[TPdYID]

Putting this here as its not relevant to the new manager thread.

Romero has missed 9/10 PL games alone. Over 25% of our league games.

Kulu has missed 8 league games and his minutes limited between the injuries.

Bissouma has missed at least 6 through injury.

Richy has missed 7 or 8 through injury.

All of the players you've listed have missed 25% of our season through injuries. That's a lot of blame your apportioning to the coach when it's something he can't control.

Most players need time to get back up to speed after injury.

I’m not blaming anyone. The question I posed was; which players has he developed?

The players I mentioned were just a sample. You can add whoever else you’d like to that list.

Who has AC developed this season? To quantify…take Arteta for example, how many players has he brought on?

Xhaka was being boo’d off at HT prior to his appointment. Saka was a RWB. Gabriel looked flaky and inconsistent. Martinelli inconsistent and out of form.

 

[sidford]

Sans-Antonio Spurs

 

[RELISYS]

In the 23 years Enic have been here we've won 1 trophy.

In that same 23 year period the managers Levy has employed have won 63 trophies between them.


It's not the ownership, it's the managers though eh?

It's shame we did not hire Walter Smith and Alex Mcleish as well, we could have then added some more meaningless Trophies to that total.

It's actually 42 Major Trophies and that is being generous to some of the leagues involved and half of that total was won by Jose Mourinho.

The way people talk about ENIC/Levy you would think that before they bought the Club we were some sort of Trophy winning juggernaut with our 2 League titles in over 100 years history before ENIC bought the club. But the fact is as a Club we have always underachieved and that started long before ENIC/Levy arrived.

It's because of ENIC/Levy fans expectations has risen and we are now in a better position to compete for Trophies in a league that is now much more competitive and harder to win trophies then previous decades.

As much as I would like the Club to be successful I am not going to deny the fact that it has always gone tits up for us even in the early years of our history.

​

 

[eddiebailey]

This added to the fact we have basically no fit left back available with Sess and Davies out. Unless we play Perisic there in a 4. Or Lenglet?

Who knows.

Not sure we have the centrebacks to easily switch to a flat four, and the prospect of Perisic at lb is terrifying. Hoping Stellini tries Danjuma at lwb or even Mundle. The alternative is getting Emerson or Porro to switch sides. But can’t go 6 weeks with Perisic as our only option.

 

[Albertbarich]

Not sure we have the centrebacks to easily switch to a flat four, and the prospect of Perisic at lb is terrifying. Hoping Stellini tries Danjuma at lwb or even Mundle. The alternative is getting Emerson or Porro to switch sides. But can’t go 6 weeks with Perisic as our only option.

If he's fit (limped off at the weekend) I'd like Emerson at left wing back.

 

[tototoner]

Nah, it's a crazy decision brought on by the fact that our board have no idea what they want as a collective. I keep hearing "perhaps we are waiting until the summer because who we want is currently employed". Nope we just don't know what we are doing. We've been speaking to Naglesmann but not everyone is convinced. Poch has his backers, Galardo the same but they can't decide between them. That is fundamentally because there is no mission statement as to what we are and who as a club we want to be.

I'm sure the Levy apologists will be along shortly to tell me how I've got it wrong, but I haven't. It genuinely is the blind leading the blind.

surely there cannot be any still left

 

[floydiohead]

Nah, it's a crazy decision brought on by the fact that our board have no idea what they want as a collective. I keep hearing "perhaps we are waiting until the summer because who we want is currently employed". Nope we just don't know what we are doing. We've been speaking to Naglesmann but not everyone is convinced. Poch has his backers, Galardo the same but they can't decide between them. That is fundamentally because there is no mission statement as to what we are and who as a club we want to be.

I'm sure the Levy apologists will be along shortly to tell me how I've got it wrong, but I haven't. It genuinely is the blind leading the blind.

It honestly is fucking atrocious that we have a board like this running the football club. Sorry, not running - ruining.

 

[markiespurs]

This reminds me a little bit of when we got rid of Santini and assistant manager, Martin Jol, took over and that didn’t work out too bad for us. I’m keeping an open about Stellini.

 

[JacoZA]

I personally think the 343 is fucking hopeless in the EPL. We had 2 exceptional players in Bentancur and Hojbjerg who were continually overrun in midfield, and very good backup players who fare no better. The sooner we get away from a midfield pivot the better as far as I'm concerned. I hope Stellini bins it now Conte isn't looking over his shoulder, but I'm also aware that he'll most likely be teaming up with Conte again soon enough, so maybe it will be more of the same.

Some of the best football we played under Poch was with a 3-4-3. It’s not the formation as much as it is the system, or the philosophy. (And, of course, the players on the field.)

 

[rossdapep]

I get your point but it's not how others clubs work. How do financial execs have any say in footballing matters. We've had this ridiculous transfer committee over the last 10 years or so making footballing decisions but that decision should always be the DOF and managers choice. They should have a say as to whether we can afford them or not, but that should be the end of their input. Certainly not arguing between themselves as to who is the better footballers and fit for the team. They are the reason why we've wasted hundreds of millions on players, and why our wage bill of assets out on loan is off the frigging scale.

Levy and co need to go on a work experience to clubs like Brighton, Benfica, Brentford, City and probably even Arsenal.

They will be utterly shocked when they see that those at board room level are not involved in the recruitment process.

There's a reason those clubs thrive and us and this new Chelsea have many issues.

But then again, I still recall when JJ said that they are deluded.

So they would probably go into a club like Brighton and tell them they are doing it wrong.

 

[AtoubaToothpaste]

Bayern were probably all on the same page right off the bat on Tuchel. We apparently have to get everything past a committee who all have different agendas. Our alternative is just going with whoever Paratici picks even though he'll likely be out on his ear soon, or, heaven forbid, let Levy choose. All 3 options are pretty unpalatable imo.

Yup. Our board, when it comes to footballing matters, has proven time and time again that it's inept and incapable. Just look how many false-dawns we've had, all the different structures, DOFs, caretakers, interims.... it's just horrible how they run things.

 

[spursfan77]

This reminds me a little bit of when we got rid of Santini and assistant manager, Martin Jol, took over and that didn’t work out too bad for us. I’m keeping an open about Stellini.

But Martin Job was who Arnesen wanted as manager, Levy wanted the bigger name so he went for Santini. It is a bit different in that regard as Jol had done well as a manager in his previous job.

 

[spursfan77]

Conceding more shots than Southampton. No wonder we conceded so many goals yet he refused to change it. Was he purposefully sabotaging us?


Yet part of his undoing was the stubbornness that saw him remain loyal to a 3-4-3 setup that meant a midfield that wasn't built to play in such a system was, routinely, overrun. This, in turn, invited pressure upon a Spurs defence that has shown no signs in the past that they can deal with the sustained pressure to repel attack after attack. Unsurprisingly, the backline routinely crumbled as Conte's reactive and at times pragmatic approach struggled to reap the benefits.
Under Conte this season, Spurs were conceding 13.6 shots per game, the same number as Leeds and more than relegation threatened trio Crystal Palace (13.3), Southampton (12.6) and West Ham (12). It was an unsustainable style of play and with Hugo Lloris on the decline, the Frenchman was unable to bail the club out as often as he once did. As one might expect, it meant Spurs frequently shipped goals, 40 to be exact in the Premier League this season, the same number as their upcoming opponents, Everton, and the most of all sides inside the top 10.

 

[Tezza1978]

In the 23 years Enic have been here we've won 1 trophy.

In that same 23 year period the managers Levy has employed have won 63 trophies between them.


It's not the ownership, it's the managers though eh?

Great post.!!

But according to some its "disgraceful" for Conte and Mourinho to call out the players - two managers who win trophies wherever they go

Yes Conte should have been able to get more out of the squad clearly. The idea though that we can get the "right" "project" manager to re-polish some of the same old turds is risible. The right manager can get more out of the better players and formation tweaks, changes in approach will help.

But if anyone thinks we are winning trophies with our current central defenders then I would recommend a full frontal lobotomy.

As ever the issue lies with the board and Levy.

 

[RuskyM]

It's shame we did not hire Walter Smith and Alex Mcleish as well, we could have then added some more meaningless Trophies to that total.

To be fair, it is bloody outrageous that we've not won the Saudi Super Cup.

 

[Oh Teddy Teddy]

Great post.!!

But according to some its "disgraceful" for Conte and Mourinho to call out the players - two managers who win trophies wherever they go

Yes Conte should have been able to get more out of the squad clearly. The idea though that we can get the "right" "project" manager to re-polish some of the same old turds is risible. The right manager can get more out of the better players and formation tweaks, changes in approach will help.

But if anyone thinks we are winning trophies with our current central defenders then I would recommend a full frontal lobotomy.

As ever the issue lies with the board and Levy.

Is anyone suggesting that?

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Are you saying that with a straight face? He gets all the flak when things don't go well? It's the manager that always gets most of the flak, always! Then he appoints another poor fit manager, who again gets the majority of the flak. Rinse and repeat...............

The reason he's getting so much stick now is because this is 4 managers in as many years and none of the managers since Poch have made any sense with the way the club is run financially, and now we are left with our trousers round our ankles yet again, with no idea how to move forward.

The thing is Levy and the board will be aware of the noise they just don’t understand it.

Like the feedback we go end of last year and during jan window when fan unrest was growing and the feedback was “the board don’t understand the reaction as far as they’re concerned they’re doing the right things”.

There in-lies the problem we have business people making football decisions. Simple as that.

Until that changes the same shit will keep on repeating itself.

We just have to hope they pin the tail on a donkey who tries to play good football and can develop players on a modest budget, any other pasty it’ll just be boring and a failure and a waste of time again.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

In the 23 years Enic have been here we've won 1 trophy.

In that same 23 year period the managers Levy has employed have won 63 trophies between them.


It's not the ownership, it's the managers though eh?

The board is ultimately at fault but this argument has so many holes in it.

Most our our managers who’ve won trophies during that period were managing the likes of Chelsea, Real Madrid, Inter Milan, Juventus, PSG and/or dominant teams in minnow leagues.

The teams mentioned are financial juggernauts of which we’ve not been able to compare ourselves with or get close to financially at all for many of those 23 years.

We are also a team in the most competitive league in the world and outside of : City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man.U and Liverpool, barely anyone else has won any trophies over that period.

That being said if we’d been run better on the football side with more of a plan, better decision making in terms of manager hires and player recruitment ins and outs we would’ve for sure won a good say 2-5 more trophies than we have done over that time, for a start we’ve got to 10 FA Cup semi finals since we last won that but a lack of quality and squad depth has meant we’ve been knocked out once we play the rest of the ‘top6’ in a key knockout game.

The board need to change and/or the football set-up and strategy of the club needs to change but to compare trophies won at other clubs in completely different situations by other managers who’ve managed us is not a like for like comparison at all.

 

[yido_number1]

Great post.!!

But according to some its "disgraceful" for Conte and Mourinho to call out the players - two managers who win trophies wherever they go

Yes Conte should have been able to get more out of the squad clearly. The idea though that we can get the "right" "project" manager to re-polish some of the same old turds is risible. The right manager can get more out of the better players and formation tweaks, changes in approach will help.

But if anyone thinks we are winning trophies with our current central defenders then I would recommend a full frontal lobotomy.

As ever the issue lies with the board and Levy.

The same players will be swanning along enjoying their salaries and knowing they can get rid of the next manager if they want to. What a toxic platform. Conte should have been the line in the sand.

I'm not against Conte going but at the same time I hate what it represents.

 

[Joshua shepherd]

I’m not blaming anyone. The question I posed was; which players has he developed?

The players I mentioned were just a sample. You can add whoever else you’d like to that list.

Who has AC developed this season? To quantify…take Arteta for example, how many players has he brought on?

Xhaka was being boo’d off at HT prior to his appointment. Saka was a RWB. Gabriel looked flaky and inconsistent. Martinelli inconsistent and out of form.

But you're not giving any context to these situations and you're wrong on Saka. He'd played 7 premier league minutes before Arteta came in. He played at RWB because that was where Arteta played him in his first season. Yes he's developed and Arteta deserves credit for that but he was a young player with immense potential who would've likely developed whoever the manager was, same with Martinelli.

You use Xhaka as an example because he was booed off, but Royal was absolutely vilified and came back to put in some good performances, yes it's a small sample size but given that Conte was here for only 16 months it's what we have to work with.

Gabriel looked flaky and inconsistent, he still does. The difference is he's partnered with Saliba who looks like he could become the best PL CB since VVD. If he was partnered by Romero and Davies I don't think he'd look as secure (he's still their biggest weakness imo).

The truth is we were in an absolute mess when Nuno left, Conte came in, improved the performances of all players last year to the point where we were able to get 4th.

This year it hasn't been as good performance wise but some of the players are playing better than they were when Nuno was in charge and it's laughable to suggest otherwise. Hoj, Skipp, Royal, Kane have all improved since Nuno, whereas Son had his best ever season when Conte was in charge. Players form can't only be attributed to the manager.