Is there still a place for the Spurs way

[dudu]

But... 9 goals. 5 (or 4?) from open play.


Do you believe we have been exciting or dull as a matter of interest? Are you going with stats, or what you have seen. I see what you are doing and I admire your tenacity, but surely you cant be arguing we are anything other than tedious.

I think especially the last 3 games we have not been exciting to watch for the most part - west ham was not great, villa we had a much better second half than we did first and the Hull game was for the most part tedious yes. I did see some moments in the Hull game that provided me with excitment though and with reason to believe there is a great team in there not quite yet ready to come out.

Can you honestly tell me that you were not given excitment by the First half of Swansea, or the game against Cardiff? Were you not buzzing after the first half against Chelsea?

 

[CowInAComa]

I think especially the last 3 games we have not been exciting to watch for the most part - west ham was not great, villa we had a much better second half than we did first and the Hull game was for the most part tedious yes. I did see some moments in the Hull game that provided me with excitment though and with reason to believe there is a great team in there not quite yet ready to come out.

Can you honestly tell me that you were not given excitment by the First half of Swansea, or the game against Cardiff? Were you not buzzing after the first half against Chelsea?

We played some decent football there. But is barely two games worth of football worth 7 games of dross, why do we revert to such moribund negativity after these games. Why dont we come out the traps and try and chew up these Hull/WestHam type teams, we give them all the time in the world to settle down.

For all your counter arguments (and all well put) I dont think I am being unreasonable in suggested we fall down on the side of dull, the vast majority of the time. And needlessly. Its the needlessness of it that screws my head up.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

The time he needs for what? To figure out he doesnt need to use our squad negatively.

All I know is what I see, Unlike you I am not inventing or assuming a future where its magically changed. In my opinion, you keep doing the same thing you keep getting the same thing.

I want to see us use our considerable playing resources with some more intent. If AvB can do that cool, saves fucking around for another manager. i have no vested interest in who can do it personally but I dont agree we need to play like we do.

Do you not think the best time to judge how well he has used the squad he has built this season, is a bit further into it? We've only played 9 games FFS!

If we're still 'boring' around February/March I will accept that AVB hasn't got us playing to our attacking potential. The problem is we are bedding in so many new players it is hard to make a fair judgement after so few games.

After reading AVB's philosophy on the game I fully believe he does not set out the side to be defensive or negative. Playing such a high line is testament to that! His ideas are very similar to the way Bayern play but our attacking strategy is stuttering as it relies on players instinctively knowing each others movements. Obviously this isn't happening yet as the team are all so new to each other.

You are fully within your rights to carry on being impatient but I think you will look stupid when the team beds in and begins to flourish.

 

[Mullers]

The time he needs for what? To figure out he doesnt need to use our squad negatively.

All I know is what I see, Unlike you I am not inventing or assuming a future where its magically changed. In my opinion, you keep doing the same thing you keep getting the same thing.

I want to see us use our considerable playing resources with some more intent. If AvB can do that cool, saves fucking around for another manager. i have no vested interest in who can do it personally but I dont agree we need to play like we do.

Time he needs to get players playing the way he wants them to play. Time to get the new players bedded in. Time for him to figure out what his best side is. It maybe that things don't work out with AVB and we will have to look elsewhere but unlike you, I'm prepared to wait until the end of the season to see how things work out rather than 9 league games into a new season.

 

[dudu]

We played some decent football there. But is barely two games worth of football worth 7 games of dross, why do we revert to such moribund negativity after these games. Why dont we come out the traps and try and chew up these Hull/WestHam type teams, we give them all the time in the world to settle down.

For all your counter arguments (and all well put) I dont think I am being unreasonable in suggested we fall down on the side of dull, the vast majority of the time. And needlessly. Its the needlessness of it that screws my head up.

i do hear you man...... We actually came out the blocks pretty fast against hull for like 2 mins then nothing..... i even texted my brother to say better tempo, only by the time he replied the tempo had dropped.

I think my points previously have been that we have shown what we can do in previous games..... other teams saw that and have reacted by nullifying where we were dominating.

Again, against Swansea and Cardiff, in the first half of both of those games we were winning the ball back and swarming forward looking dangerous and exciting and creating chances. Even the Chelsea game (first half) and stages norwich game to a degree we were doing the same. Since then weve had england internationals, long european trips and i honestly thingk capoue being injued all breaking up our rhythm. That coupled with playing 3 teams in a row who have come to play 10 men behind the ball football has left us looking a bit laboured, a little out of ideas and its frustrating everyone.

Even AVB knows, he has said so im sure - so i think you are complete;ly reasonable based on the last 3/3.5 league performances but the 3/3.5 before that were not as dire as you are making out also

 

[Spurs 1961]

Do you not think the best time to judge how well he has used the squad he has built this season a bit further into it. We've only played 9 games FFS!

If we're still 'boring' around February/March I will accept that AVB hasn't got us playing to our attacking potential. The problem is we are bedding in so many new players it is hard to make a fair judgement after so few games.

After reading AVB's philosophy on the game I fully believe he does not set out the side to be defensive or negative. Playing such a high line is testament to that! His ideas are very similar to the way Bayern play but our attacking strategy is stuttering as it relies on players instinctively knowing each others movements. Obviously this is happening yet as the team is so new to each other.

You are fully within your rights to carry on being impatient but I think you will look stupid when the team beds in and begins to flourish.

In theory I agree with most of what you say the irritation that some of us feel is that we are always rebuilding; always hearing 'when the players' (substitute manager if you wish) settle in all will be OK yet we still stay 4/5th where we have now been for many years. I know people say we should be grateful for not being mid-table but expectation has been built up without anything concrete having been delivered.

May I also add that I would accept 7/8th rather than 4/5th if it was in order to bed in some of the young more attacking players we have like Eriksen and Lamela who might need time to build the telepathy you talk about. Chopping and changing, giving twenty minutes here or there will not do that. So let AVB commit to a style, commit to the best players to make that happen in time and see it through...we can use others in cup matches. Maybe this does not seem pragmatic but I think long term it will be. The likes of Bayern and Dortmund took years to get to where they are now; years working to a philosophy.

 

[CowInAComa]

In theory I agree with most of what you say the irritation that some of us feel is that we are always rebuilding; always hearing 'when the players (substitute manager if you wish) settle in all will be OK yet we still stay 4/5th where we have now been for many years. I know people say we should be grateful for not being mid-table but expectation has been built up without anything concrete having been delivered.

May I also add that I would accept 7/8th rather than 4/5th if it was in order to bed in some of the young more attacking players we have like Eriksen and Lamela who might need time to build the telepathy you talk about. Chopping and changing, giving twenty minutes here or there will not do that. So let AVB commit to a style, commit to the best players to make that happen in time and see it through...we can use others in cup matches. Maybe this does not seem pragmatic but I think long term it will be. The likes of Bayer and Dortmund took years to get to where they are now; years working to a philosophy.

That sums up perfectly what I was thinking. We always seem to be in a transitional state, bedding this in, waiting for that type of player.

If we are working towards a philosophy of more progressive football we should at least be making an effort to implement it on the pitch. We cant be working towards it whilst we are playing it safe. Take the hits.

 

[CowInAComa]

Time he needs to get players playing the way he wants them to play. Time to get the new players bedded in. Time for him to figure out what his best side is. It maybe that things don't work out with AVB and we will have to look elsewhere but unlike you, I'm prepared to wait until the end of the season to see how things work out rather than 9 league games into a new season.

second season in charge not 9 games.

Or does it reset every year when we buy new players. As Wenger said too many players could disrupt the team, in that case dont buy/sell too many players then complain about the team being disrupted

 

[punky]

In the thread about the lack of support I was really disheartened by the amount of comments that said they were happy to win 1-0 due to a dubious penalty with a shit performance against a weakened, newly promoted team and point to the stats showing highest points total/greatest PL start whilst ignoring the performance entirely.

The win seems to be all people are bothered about anymore. I'd rather us finish fifth and play football that is the envy of the league like we did under Harry than win the league with mostly poor performances and dubious penalties.

I can't be the only one but it feels like it. Do people really follow football to see their team win or to be entertained?

 

[mattstev2000]

In the thread about the lack of support I was really disheartened by the amount of comments that said they were happy to win 1-0 due to a dubious penalty with a shit performance against a weakened, newly promoted team and point to the stats showing highest points total/greatest PL start whilst ignoring the performance entirely.

The win seems to be all people are bothered about anymore. I'd rather us finish fifth and play football that is the envy of the league like we did under Harry than win the league with mostly poor performances and dubious penalties.

I can't be the only one but it feels like it. Do people really follow football to see their team win or to be entertained?

Give me a champions league spot and boring 1-0 wins any day of the week. Sod losing in style, I'm bored of it.

Obviously, If we can combine the two then fantastic, but I know which of the two 'lesser' options I'd pick.

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again I'm sure, people really romanticise the football we played under Redknapp. We had good spells (as we have under AVB) but we also had absolute turgid, tedious rubbish as well. The last third of his last season for instance.

 

[dudu]

second season in charge not 9 games.

Or does it reset every year when we buy new players. As Wenger said too many players could disrupt the team, in that case dont buy/sell too many players then complain about the team being disrupted

True, but then all we hear is "Hudd is too fat and shit, livermore is shit, parker just runs around in circles, lennon isnt good enough dempsey is shit etc etc....."

The truth is, we have been in a transition for a long time, as have most teams in the prem. A new manager with new philosophies means we have to transition. We didnt splash out 100m last season, we bought some players at the end of the transdfer window to plug the gaps we had.

How can anyone deny that what we have done this summer is a true transition, we have bough young players who arent just brough in to fill in the gaps - there is a planb there, it needs more than 2 months to come together.

 

[Mullers]

second season in charge not 9 games.

Or does it reset every year when we buy new players. As Wenger said too many players could disrupt the team, in that case dont buy/sell too many players then complain about the team being disrupted

Second season in charge and 9 games into it. IMO yes it does reset when you have to bring a number of new players in. Dempsey is not a player AVB wanted so he got sold, Hudd, Livermore aren't good enough so they're gone. Bale wanted to leave, had we missed out on the likes of Erikson, Lamela, Soldado, then people would have complained about this too

 

[dudu]

Second season in charge and 9 games into it. IMO yes it does reset when you have to bring a number of new players in. Dempsey is not a player AVB wanted so he got sold, Hudd, Livermore aren't good enough so they're gone. Bale wanted to leave, had we missed out on the likes of Erikson, Lamela, Soldado, then people would have complained about this too

you read my mind.

 

[CowInAComa]

Give me a champions league spot and boring 1-0 wins any day of the week. Sod losing in style, I'm bored of it.

Obviously, If we can combine the two then fantastic, but I know which of the two 'lesser' options I'd pick.

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again I'm sure, people really romanticise the football we played under Redknapp. We had good spells (as we have under AVB) but we also had absolute turgid, tedious rubbish as well. The last third of his last season for instance.

I would rather 5th and excitement personally - nothing to do with redknapp who did struggle at the end, though the season we did qualify was also pretty entertaining no? If you are happy with dull and winning why watch the games and not just check the scores every sunday evening?

Luckily, you can be successful and entertaining anyway. So its a moot point.

 

[CowInAComa]

If I just wanted success but didnt care about the 'Spurs' way, then Spurs are the last team I would have chosen to support.

 

[mattstev2000]

I would rather 5th and excitement personally - nothing to do with redknapp who did struggle at the end, though the season we did qualify was also pretty entertaining no? If you are happy with dull and winning why watch the games and not just check the scores every sunday evening?

Luckily, you can be successful and entertaining anyway. So its a moot point.

I didn't say I was happy with dull and winning I just said I prefer winning dull to losing in an entertaining manner. Watching Spurs lose is a kick in the nuts every time it happens and invariably it ruins my week whether we lose 1-0 or 6-5 so why would I prefer that?

Added to which people are overstating how dull things are, we've had some good games, some good halves and got some good results.

We've had some bad games but it's hardly surprising considering the amount of changes the team goes through every year.

Also, of course you can be successful and entertaining, no one said you couldn't. In actual fact I think you'll probably find that most people who aren't constantly whining about the dull football are aware that it's not as good as it could be but are confident AVB and the players will improve as things go on..

 

[jonnyp]

Um... does anyone think that we are the finished article yet? Lot of new players (including Rose and Townsend) have come in and are learning AVB's style. Think by January we will be scoring a few more goals and creating chances. That is what get fans excited.

So will wait to see what our style will finally be before deciding that AVB is George Graham reborn.

I hope you're right, but there was no improvement last season either. Now, we don't have the qualities of Modric, Bale and VdV anymore, so we're never going to be the most entertaining side in the league with our currrent crop of players. So I hope no-one expects that. What gets on my nerves though is the complete lack of movement shown by our players in the final third. Everyone's just standing around, don't make themselves available and don't make any runs to draw defenders out of position to create space for themselves or others. It's too static and has been since AVB took over. There really isn't any excuse for that.

 

[walworthyid]

I for one am frustrated at the way we are playing more than disappointed. We have been the entertaining but plucky loser for more years than I can remember and I want success. AVB has his faults no doubt, but he is also a winner. Somehow, he wins games, he sets us up in such a way as we manage to beat most of the teams we play against and that is his job.

Obviously we have the new players etc and all of that is having an impact but in the end of the day we are winning, we aren't conceding goals and we are managing to integrate all of these players at the same time. If that is a transitional period I'll take it because I've seen transition numerous times and it has never looked like that! 15 games played, 5 goals conceded, I think nearly every other team in the league would take that and so should we.

 

[parklane1]

The spurs way has Barcelona many titles than we could dream of, It helped Ajax win the CL with a team that mostly homegrown, it helping Spain dominate international footy and produce technically gifted players

These system maybe labelled but all came from the same philosophy which some spurs guys took to Europe like Vic Buckingham and Rowe

The reason for us not winning title arent down to the way we played(in some cases it may be) but the shocking mismanagement we have had through the years like the 90's

Does not explain why we never won it during the 70's, 80's and since though does it.

 

[parklane1]

Its a fair point, but we arent the most boring team in the league so not sure why it matters?

This, anyone who says we are needs a reality check.