Is there still a place for the Spurs way

[CowInAComa]

Does not explain why we never won it during the 70's, 80's and since though does it.

Stoke play dull football and didnt win it in the 70s and 80s how do you explain that?

 

[jezz]

Name one major league in the modern era being won by the most boring team in it.

There is no correlation between success and negativity.

Man utd

 

[CowInAComa]

Man utd

what? are you taking the piss?

 

[parklane1]

Stoke play dull football and didnt win it in the 70s and 80s how do you explain that?

Well i know you think our football ( at the moment)is turgid, but i disagree.

 

[beats1]

Does not explain why we never won it during the 70's, 80's and since though does it.

We were mismanaged then too at board room level, yes we didnt win it during that time but we were successful during the bill nic well until the late bill nic days and Keith Burkinshaw days.

 

[CowInAComa]

Well i know you think our football ( at the moment)is turgid, but i disagree.

Thats fair enough i certaintly cant argue with that. each to their own.

 

[jezz]

what? are you taking the piss?

Alright maybe not the most boring, but they were hardly the most entertaining last season.

 

[parklane1]

We were mismanaged then too at board room level, yes we didnt win it during that time but we were successful during the bill nic well until the late bill nic days and Keith Burkinshaw days.

As i said in my earlier post i loved watching players like Hoddle, Waddle, etc but its a different game nowadays and most clubs are far better organised then they used to be. The gung ho approach will not work like it used to.

 

[parklane1]

Thats fair enough i certaintly cant argue with that. each to their own.

 

[CowInAComa]

As i said in my earlier post i loved watching players like Hoddle, Waddle, etc but its a different game nowadays and most clubs are far better organised then they used to be. The gung ho approach will not work like it used to.

Do you associate the Spurs way as gung-ho? At our most ridiculous our football has been gung-ho so I can see where you would argue against that.

To me Spurs way is really just prioritising the art of attack over defence, and setting out with the intention to score rather than stop the opponent scoring as the first priority. And yeah a bit of flair. Most modern successful teams actually share this philosophy in reality.

The age of defense based success was actually the days you refer to as the age when a gung ho approach would work. Italy for example.

In the modern day its Jose Mourinho/Chelsea who has bucked the trend with negativity forming the foundation of his style. His champions league successes were a victory for horrid cynical football. It seems people fixate on this and see it as the route to take to ensure success. The whole 'i would take 1-0 and successful' vs 'exciting and losing' is a non starter for me as it doesnt reflect reality and they arent the two options.

On the whole its the good shit thats winning. Which is what I want to see from Spurs, front foot attacking football not silly mindless cavalry charges.

 

[SandroClegane]

We were still losing to shit sides while playing good attacking football like wigan and norwich and stoke, now we're scraping results, so i'd prefer the new way.

Once the sixteen (!!!!) new players are all used to playing with each other and the old guys do people really think this is what the finished product will look like?

 

[worcestersauce]

it took Bill Nicholson three years; stick around enjoy the ride.

 

[beats1]

As i said in my earlier post i loved watching players like Hoddle, Waddle, etc but its a different game nowadays and most clubs are far better organised then they used to be. The gung ho approach will not work like it used to.

Barcelona arent gung ho, people mistake Harry's style under us as gung ho, I think it was potentially a great way of playing but needed changes to our attack and Defence.

If we had a fit a King(never was going to happen I know), Kaboul in Defence with Sandro used more we would of been alot more solid at the back.

If we had Lloris at the back we would of been alot more solid. If we had Paulinho, Dembele and Capoue as options we would of been more solid.

Another thing that season I think people romanticise that season, because we could of played better than we were. Even during the 11 match unbeaten streak you could see that team was playing to its full potential. We werent gung ho either its just players like Modric, VDV and Bale just made alot of clear cut chances while not being great defensively which made people think this. When Parker and Sandro played together we looked poor and that kind of built this mentality we were only good playing going all out attack but had we had a one of the 3 we got I think it would a different story.

Look at the teams that top teams which football team now plays a defensive style; Bayern, Barca, Dortmund, Madrid, City and etc. All try to play a attractive passing game that breaks down teams. The tottenham way was is not gung ho but push and run. Currently most top teams are using it to break down teams we are struggling with the system at the moment.

 

[shelfboy68]

[quthinke="beats1, post: 3672146, member: 17906"]Barcelona arent gung ho, people mistake Harry's style under us as gung ho, I think it was potentially a great way of playing but needed changes to our attack and Defence.

If we had a fit a King(never was going to happen I know), Kaboul in Defence with Sandro used more we would of been alot more solid at the back.

If we had Lloris at the back we would of been alot more solid. If we had Paulinho, Dembele and Capoue as options we would of been more solid.

Another thing that season I think people romanticise that season, because we could of played better than we were. Even during the 11 match unbeaten streak you could see that team was playing to its full potential. We werent gung ho either its just players like Modric, VDV and Bale just made alot of clear cut chances while not being great defensively which made people think this. When Parker and Sandro played together we looked poor and that kind of built this mentality we were only good playing going all out attack but had we had a one of the 3 we got I think it would a different story.

Look at the teams that top teams which football team now plays a defensive style; Bayern, Barca, Dortmund, Madrid, City and etc. All try to play a attractive passing game that breaks down teams. The tottenham way was is not gung ho but push and run. Currently most top teams are using it to break down teams we are struggling with the system at the moment.[/quote]

I think the main problem in our play is that everything seems so scripted, robotic or methodical even it's like there is no spontaneity no letting players play their natural game.
They all seem so restricted it makes playing against us very predictable and easy to set up against, don't get me wrong I'm all for winning one nil when needed more so away from home really but this season we are worse than last we are averaging one goal a game thats no good and andre using the crowd as a deflecting tool was straight out of the Maureen school of managing and it's not going to work for him I'm afraid Maureen yes as he is a proven winner but avb has a lot to learn.
I just wish he can find a way of beating sides who defend like this against us sooner rather than later.

 

[parklane1]

Barcelona arent gung ho, people mistake Harry's style under us as gung ho, I think it was potentially a great way of playing but needed changes to our attack and Defence.

If we had a fit a King(never was going to happen I know), Kaboul in Defence with Sandro used more we would of been alot more solid at the back.

If we had Lloris at the back we would of been alot more solid. If we had Paulinho, Dembele and Capoue as options we would of been more solid.

Another thing that season I think people romanticise that season, because we could of played better than we were. Even during the 11 match unbeaten streak you could see that team was playing to its full potential. We werent gung ho either its just players like Modric, VDV and Bale just made alot of clear cut chances while not being great defensively which made people think this. When Parker and Sandro played together we looked poor and that kind of built this mentality we were only good playing going all out attack but had we had a one of the 3 we got I think it would a different story.

Look at the teams that top teams which football team now plays a defensive style; Bayern, Barca, Dortmund, Madrid, City and etc. All try to play a attractive passing game that breaks down teams. The tottenham way was is not gung ho but push and run. Currently most top teams are using it to break down teams we are struggling with the system at the moment.

There is a awful lot of ifs in that, as for Redknapp where have i said his teams were gung ho?. My point is/was that teams in todays game are more organised then ever and it takes more to break them down then it used to do. I am talking about the last 4O years not about Redknapp at all.

 

[faymantaray]

 

[idontgetit]

I think the thing that gets me is that you don't need a squad of physically dominating athletes to play an aggressive pressing game. Holtby, Erikson and Lamela are physically capable of doing that pressing. You just need one real bastard of a player to sit deep and protect the defence when everyone else is streaming forward, which we have in Sandro/Capoue. At the moment the pressing is working for us but our creative players are getting on the ball way too late to be able to do anything with it. We just need to stop playing with two DM's which is unnecessary given the individual quality of Sandro/Capoue. If we are going to play two DM's it has to be Paulinho and Capoue as they can both pass, dribble and tackle and are therefore balanced enough to mix up attacking and defending. We can keep playing Sandro and Paullinho/Dembele as a wonky DM pairing but I think it just prevents both from doing what they're good at in the end

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I started watching Spurs with likes of Mullery, Mackay, Gilzean and Greaves in the team.

I've seen the showmen of Peters, Chivers, Hoddle, McNabb, Conn, Ardiles, Gazza, Waddle, Klinsmann, Popescu etc come and go but cannot say have ever seen such an entertaining team as we were we were for the first part of that season under Harry. But even then we were sussed towards the end of the season with teams just sitting back - it wasn't just Harry taking his eyes off the ball and thinking about England.

We have always been known for our stylish football that offered a lot but won little - the odd cup was thrown in for good show.

It's great to say we play in the 'Spurs way', but would say that with the exception of the Burkinshaw time that way has meant we have never really serious contenders on a consistent basis.

I now think we can be....... but we are not playing in the Spurs way of old.

Do I find that disappointing? Yes but I'm realistic enough to know cant have everything
Do I accept it? Yes - I want to be entertained but would like to win too.
Do I believe that we have become boring? No, just playing more to a system.

We have never had such a strong squad and manager.

We are very much work in progress, yet we still sit fourth in a very open premiership. Our once wide open defence and corner deficencies appear to be things of the past. We don't have to score 2 or 3 to win a match.
We have players within the squad that can/will allow us to play different styles against different teams.
BUT you have to start with the basics. Getting to know each other, the formations, your duties and roles within the formations and the expectations of the club and manager. Players have to settle to the demands and physicality of the premiership. A trust has to be built.
Once this solid understanding is achieved then you can start becoming more expansive.

AVB knows that you have to get the base right. You can't run before you can walk.

Trust the guy, trust his tactics and get behind the team.

The future has never been so positive, if we don't do it this time we probably never will.....

Good post.

 

[dudu]

Someone wrote something in a post yesterday, cant remember who, cant remember when but it sparked a little nugget of thought inside my weird little head.

Perhaps, and this is just a perhaps..... we arent ready to be unleashed yet.

Bale last year, once AVB felt he was ready to be unleashed all over the pitch, unleashed him. We didnt see the work in training, we didnt see how much time and effort went into getting him prepared for his free (ish role). AVB inspired something in him and once he was ready, he let Bale go.

Lloris was brought in to the team slowly also last year. PLaying the high line is not easy, learning how to do it takes time so Lloris was bedded in with the defense. Played some cup games and everyone was allowed time to get comfortable with the system before it became the staple. We didnt see what happened in training, how hard this was worked on and how it was implemented, but it clearly was and it clearly took time.

In my opinion based im sure mainly on overthinking this - we arent ready to be unleashed the way we want yet. We clearly arent, there are stages to learning new things. It takes time and i would rather us learn a slow methodical 'boring' way by not conceeding and therefore not losing while we are finding our feet. This whole thing where people expect One human being to be able to get 25 other human being playing in perfect symetrey within 2-3 months is setting expectations a little high.

It doesnt work like that. We did start the season with much more vigour and intenet, our best performances coming against Swansea and Cardiff..... the scorelines of both of those games did not do our performance justice. West Ham was a big setback.... and so we build again. Slowly but in my opinion surely......

2 games since then without conceeding. Performances could have been better but results could not have been. When AVB is ready to unleash, when the players are ready to play the way he ultimately wants them to i believe we will look like a different team.

Or not and AVB wants this type of football to be played.

The only thing ill say about that is that he has come out and admitted that we arent playing as well as we could. If he see it and says it then i feel confident he wants, expects and will bring more to the pitch.