Jose Mourinho

[sausage]

The pragmatic ones: those who recognise when we're winning games and getting results, thought it may not be pretty they recognise its a results game so will take it. But will also recognise when we hit bad form and quite rightly blame the negative tactics.

I'm pragmatic, or at least try to be. We could be shit every week and scrape results but if it meant we actually win something I don't care. But our recent form is shite. 2 points from 12 isn't good enough. Nor is defending 1-0 leads away to average teams. Not last 10 minutes defending either, we're talking whole halves.

That is selective pragmatism, though - true pragmatism would consider all factors involved, which that is not doing.

Tactics are a series of instructions and methods that the players are trained and given to follow, but the mistake is completely attributing the way players play as tactics. That is down to various factors, including a player's ability to follow or understand the tactics - individually, or collectively. If a key creative player has a game where he can't string two passes together, it can completely nullify an attacking approach.

'Negative' tactics would, imo, be stuff like bringing on a defender to replace an attacker. We didn't see that yesterday. I also didn't see us camped out on the edge of our own box. What I did see, personally, was incredibly sloppy passing, a lack of concentration, and a lack of creative movement. It's not like we're hoofing balls for Kane and Son to chase - it just looked like we had no cohesion in midfield.

What I think needs to be addressed, and this is something that I have no doubt Mourinho etc. know about, is that we have a bunch of players like Dele, Winks, Sissoko and Fernandes - no-one of which are capable of offering what Lo Celso does. So yesterday I have no doubt that what we saw was a lack of alternative to Gio.
What I don't understand, tactically speaking, is why we haven't got an alternative style that would accommodate a solution with what we do have. Why we aren't using Vincius more. I just don't think it's pragmatic to only see this part of the equation and not even touch on all the other factors.

Generally, it doesn't surprise me that we haven't been good at closing out tight scorelines, because I feel like we've never been good at that in recent years. I actually feel like, in many ways, we look very much like Liverpool did pre-VVD and Allison - that we are actually a couple of key players away from everything clicking.

 

[shelfboy68]

That is selective pragmatism, though - true pragmatism would consider all factors involved, which that is not doing.

Tactics are a series of instructions and methods that the players are trained and given to follow, but the mistake is completely attributing the way players play as tactics. That is down to various factors, including a player's ability to follow or understand the tactics - individually, or collectively. If a key creative player has a game where he can't string two passes together, it can completely nullify an attacking approach.

'Negative' tactics would, imo, be stuff like bringing on a defender to replace an attacker. We didn't see that yesterday. I also didn't see us camped out on the edge of our own box. What I did see, personally, was incredibly sloppy passing, a lack of concentration, and a lack of creative movement. It's not like we're hoofing balls for Kane and Son to chase - it just looked like we had no cohesion in midfield.

What I think needs to be addressed, and this is something that I have no doubt Mourinho etc. know about, is that we have a bunch of players like Dele, Winks, Sissoko and Fernandes - no-one of which are capable of offering what Lo Celso does. So yesterday I have no doubt that what we saw was a lack of alternative to Gio.
What I don't understand, tactically speaking, is why we haven't got an alternative style that would accommodate a solution with what we do have. Why we aren't using Vincius more. I just don't think it's pragmatic to only see this part of the equation and not even touch on all the other factors.

Generally, it doesn't surprise me that we haven't been good at closing out tight scorelines, because I feel like we've never been good at that in recent years. I actually feel like, in many way, we look very much like Liverpool did pre-VVD and Allison - that we are actually a couple of key players away from everything clicking.

Liverpool spent 70m on each to get where they are now, can anyone see our club doing that especially with the covid situation it just isn't going to happen.

 

[sausage]

Liverpool spent 70m on each to get where they are now, can anyone see our club doing that especially with the covid situation it just isn't going to happen.

Yes but they only did it by selling Coutinho, and were going for players (especially Allison) who are, or were, in key (expensive) positions.

We could easily make some funds available by moving on some of the 'square pegs' in the shape of Dele, Sanchez, dare I say Winks, Sissoko. I think there are players like Sabitzer and Skiriniar who appear to be available for around £80-90m combined, so you'd hope the balance sheet would make that possible. Someone else's problem doing that maths though

Good thing about Jose is that he seems to be capable of finding these 'solutions' through cheaper players, so you'd hope there's a good value french midfielder out there who he has his eye on.

 

[shelfboy68]

Yes but they only did it by selling Coutinho, and were going for players (especially Allison) who are, or were, in key (expensive) positions.

We could easily make some funds available by moving on some of the 'square pegs' in the shape of Dele, Sanchez, dare I say Winks, Sissoko. I think there are players like Sabitzer and Skiriniar who appear to be available for around £80-90m combined, so you'd hope the balance sheet would make that possible. Someone else's problem doing that maths though

Good thing about Jose is that he seems to be capable of finding these 'solutions' through cheaper players, so you'd hope there's a good value french midfielder out there who he has his eye on.

Let's hope so see what the summer brings as I can't see anything being done in January except maybe outgoings.

 

[Jaddas]

Another issue he has brought onto himself, is his lack of trust in the squad which looks like it is already biting him on the backside.

Of our 26 goals scored in the league, 20 have come from Son & Kane, so over 75%. However, he has also used them fairly often in the Europa and Carabao Cups.

Was there any need to bring them both on against Antwerp when we were 1 nil ahead? Did Kane need to play the whole match vs Stoke and Son 45 minutes?

Now we have 3 fixtures in 6 days (2 league + Carabao semi), and Kane, Son and also Hojberg, arguably our 3 best performers this season, look knackered and are needed for all 3.

 

[spursfan1991]

Covid cases are rising again exponentially, first premier league game has just been postponed, many managers have moaned about fatigue ready. They need to do the right thing and suspend elite football for about a month.

This may help us, i am clutching at straws i dont care. The break may benefit all concerned.

 

[Japhet]

You're still not getting it. And you're still equating the second half approach with them being given two bullshit decisions. You can't force a goalkeeper into making 10-12 saves, you can't legislate for a referee giving bullshit decisions. You put out your pieces and they do the best they can. You can't fully legislate for what the other side are going to do.

This is basic. It's not even complicated. The fact that people still pull this out is the epitome of absurdity.

Here's the challenge: show me evidence that Mourinho instructed his team to sit on the 1-0 lead against Newcastle. Direct evidence, mind - no supposition or conjecture. If you can do that, I'll happily concede the point.

To do what you ask, he'd have to be in the changing room with a video camera during the team talk. That's the epitome of absurdity.

 

[double0]

The bottom line with Mourinho is he needs a few more transfer Window dare I say more time to get it drilled in.

As fans we are used to better football but we haven't won any trophy for a long time and Mourinho knows what it takes to win.

We need to see this through as painful as it is. I hope Levy backs him in the next few windows because we don't have enough Mourinho type players ie mentally smart.

 

[EQP]

This little line during his post-match interview was an opportunity for a braver reporter to really put his feet to the fire. The obvious question after that is " So the players are no longer listening to you? It sounds like you told the players one thing and they did something different from what you asked" and just press him to give a definitive answer. He was trying to distance himself from this performance as if he didn't sub in Sissoko for Ndombele when he watched the same game we all did and apparently understood that we needed a 2nd goal to kill the game off but made that change regardless.​

 

[Japhet]

Covid cases are rising again exponentially, first premier league game has just been postponed, many managers have moaned about fatigue ready. They need to do the right thing and suspend elite football for about a month.

This may help us, i am clutching at straws i dont care. The break may benefit all concerned.

Worked for us last time.

 

[Mr Pink]

Covid cases are rising again exponentially, first premier league game has just been postponed, many managers have moaned about fatigue ready. They need to do the right thing and suspend elite football for about a month.

This may help us, i am clutching at straws i dont care. The break may benefit all concerned.

Can't see it.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

The side doesn't looked knackered it looks uninspired and bored - what are the tactics other than sit and wait there is no movement no intelligence no interplay, no risk taking and other than Kane or Son linking together little goal threat.

Sorry that is all down to the manager and the annoying thing is the treatment of Dele is endemic in the side that the manager has created and indeed the football that we are watching.

Certainly if we had a crowd there I am not sure he would be getting away with things so lightly

 

[OPModric]

Jason Burt has written something. Behind paywall...

 

[Gspurs11]

Jason Burt has written something. Behind paywall...

something about Mourinho being brought in front of The Hague for ‘Crimes Against Football’

 

[mil1lion]

Reguilon was one of the positives in attack for the first half. The trouble is both he and Aurier have been sat back too much. It's like Jose is scared of the fact that they're both attack minded fullbacks so has told both to stay back. I don't see why one can't push forward and the other stay back though. Especially if we continue with Sissoko and Hojbjerg. I'd be happy to have 3 of the 4 defenders sat back with Hojbjerg and Sissoko to allow the others a bit more freedom to push forward.

I wonder if we could go to a switch of last season where Reguilon pushes forward and Aurier (or possibly Tanganga) stays back. I think Son does his best work drifting from the left where it's more difficult to track his runs so think an overlapping left back would work well with him. He spent far too much time defending on the right yesterday (maybe because Sissoko wasn't there and Winks doesn't do that job).

 

[sausage]

Jason Burt has written something. Behind paywall...

Most unimpressive one ever, mind. Not that it matters, as it's just recycled nonsense.

Spoiler: article

It is all about the Dele Alli flick that gave away a goal against Stoke City. Jose Mourinho called out Alli after the League Cup tie, spoke of his anger and of the player “creating problems for his own team”.

Except Alli did not give away a goal, did he? His flick was a bad decision – there was a much less risky pass to make – but he did not give up on it, he then challenged a Stoke player, forcing the ball to be played back to the goalkeeper. Tottenham had plenty of time to re-set defensively before Jordan Thompson eventually scored the equaliser. Alli was substituted 13 minutes later, showed his pent-up anger, Spurs went on to win the quarter-final 3-1 in his absence and Mourinho was inevitably asked about the incident.

Why does this matter? Imagine how Mourinho would have reacted had he still been the Manchester United manager when Bruno Fernandes gave the ball away, in a far more dangerous area, directly leading to Leicester City’s first goal in the 2-2 draw on Boxing Day? It would have been similar, and it is this kind of public upbraiding that comes to mind when watching Spurs against Wolverhampton Wanderers when they scored in the first minute and then grimly defended and tried to hold on which the failed to do.

Afterwards Mourinho claimed these were not his instructions. But the way he sets up his team, the tactics he adopts, the substitutions he made, the tone he sets and the way he criticises players who make mistakes creates an inhibiting environment. It is fear first. Players are scared of making an error and Mourinho has always believed that the team that makes the fewest errors will win. He spoke about a lack of “ambition” but does he encourage it when he is so quick to chastise and look for scapegoats?

It is nothing new and the treatment of Alli follows a pattern. The 24-year-old has been made an example of, is clearly unwanted by Mourinho, but can also be the kind of creative, box-to-box midfielder Spurs lack and the manager, apparently, wants them to sign in the January window when Alli should also go. Alli is also a popular member of the dressing room and there is sympathy towards him and the way he has been treated.

In his excellent new book, The Greatest Games, Telegraph columnist Jamie Carragher argues that there is no “right way” to win and, of course, that is true. What is fascinating about this season, more than any other, is that style of play and philosophy has become such a hot and divisive topic.

But the thing with Mourinho, a senior figure at Chelsea once privately said, is if he stops winning then what is there left? Granted the comment was made as the relationship had turned decidedly sour but it is difficult to think of another manager who provokes such violent reactions.

On the face of it, a 1-1 draw away to Wolves is respectable enough, as is the fact that Spurs sit in fifth place in the league, just a point outside the top four and six points behind leaders Liverpool.
It is hardly crisis time and wins over Fulham and Leeds United this week should see them back in the Champions League places and maybe even challenging for the title again. Not so long ago they took seven points from fixtures against Manchester City, Chelsea and Arsenal and the attacking axis of Son and Harry Kane was scaring the rest of the league with Mourinho being praised.

And yet. Spurs have gained just two points from their last four league games and it is the manner of those defeats and draws that is causing so much vexation for the fans of a club whose motto is “To Dare is To Do”. Maybe it is too much to say that, in these times above all others, and especially during this restricted festive period, there is a duty to try and entertain and not just to try and win. But the Spurs fans who watched the Wolves game will have been left feeling empty at the final whistle. Without the victory – as that Chelsea official said – what was there?
Mourinho has always played the percentages but never more so than at Spurs and what will be eating him up at present is not just the flatlining of results but the fact that they have dropped nine points this season with goals conceded in the last 10 minutes, which is the most by any side in the Premier League. For Mourinho that will be unforgivable, as will the fact they have conceded six goals from set-pieces.
There has been a theory since the start of the campaign that the condensed nature of the season, the fixture and injury pile-up, the freakishness of playing in empty stadia, the continued uncertainty caused by Covid-19, has created a chaos that means a character such as Mourinho will thrive.

That may well be the case. Spurs face Brentford in the League Cup semi-final and are close to winning their first trophy since 2008; they are in the last-32 of the Europa League and the signings made under Mourinho have – largely – worked out, although the elephant in the room remains the lack of an effective contribution from Gareth Bale.

But it is on the cusp. They need to rally or the restiveness will rise. A personal preference has always been for more positive football – for Pep Guardiola, Jurgen Klopp, Marcelo Bielsa – but each to their own. There is no right or wrong way, as Carragher points out. The difference though is that when you do not win the Mourinho way there is less to sustain you and there is more negativity than with those managers he curls his nose up at.

The media love nothing more than to string up a Jose team - except in this case, they are inventing an agenda and then instantly condemning it. Straw man media, if you will.

The worst thing about the whole Dele thing is that the hacks are failing to see the bigger picture - criticising Dele is nothing to do with the actual incident, it will be a way of trying to get Dele to see his contribution towards the team. Seeing that his risks are the team's risks etc. Problem is that Dele would appear to be incapable of returning to his prior form, because it relied on a hunger or desire that we've not seen for a long time.

I feel like the media would love to make the argument that we're losing points because Dele isn't playing, but I think it's too difficult to even make that suggestion.

 

[OPModric]

Most unimpressive one ever, mind. Not that it matters, as it's just recycled nonsense.


The media love nothing more than to string up a Jose team - except in this case, they are inventing an agenda and then instantly condemning it. Straw man media, if you will.

The worst thing about the whole Dele thing is that the hacks are failing to see the bigger picture - criticising Dele is nothing to do with the actual incident, it will be a way of trying to get Dele to see his contribution towards the team. Seeing that his risks are the team's risks etc. Problem is that Dele would appear to be incapable of returning to his prior form, because it relied on a hunger or desire that we've not seen for a long time.

I feel like the media would love to make the argument that we're losing points because Dele isn't playing, but I think it's too difficult to even make that suggestion.

Thank you and I agree that was really bad. Why base an article about playing style on a player that barely plays.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

The media love nothing more than to string up a Jose team - except in this case, they are inventing an agenda and then instantly condemning it. Straw man media, if you will.

The worst thing about the whole Dele thing is that the hacks are failing to see the bigger picture - criticising Dele is nothing to do with the actual incident, it will be a way of trying to get Dele to see his contribution towards the team. Seeing that his risks are the team's risks etc. Problem is that Dele would appear to be incapable of returning to his prior form, because it relied on a hunger or desire that we've not seen for a long time.

I feel like the media would love to make the argument that we're losing points because Dele isn't playing, but I think it's too difficult to even make that suggestion.
[/QUOTE]

The media love it because its largely deserved - and yes yesterday not replacing N;dombele with Dele had a direct affect on the side not winning the game. Again talking about Dele lack of hunger is just talk backed up by nothing very much - the figures are that even last season he still scored 1 in 3 in a side that was struggling = not one of our midfield players gets anywhere near the goals or chance creation that Dele has. Without him the side is playing turgid uninspired, boring, risk less football with little imagination or indeed purpose. Its unfair to expect Dele to change that but at least he would give the side a purpose

 

[Metalhead]

The side doesn't looked knackered it looks uninspired and bored - what are the tactics other than sit and wait there is no movement no intelligence no interplay, no risk taking and other than Kane or Son linking together little goal threat.

Sorry that is all down to the manager and the annoying thing is the treatment of Dele is endemic in the side that the manager has created and indeed the football that we are watching.

Certainly if we had a crowd there I am not sure he would be getting away with things so lightly

I don't know. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that all is right with the world in terms of the playing style at the moment but Dele has not consistently shown his best form for such a long time. By all means criticise Jose but I feel like the Dele issue is just a convenient stick.

 

[mumfordspur]

Has the poster put up the proof yet (been out shopping so catching up now)