Let Fans In

[tototoner]

Some non league clubs are allowed fans in.

Farnham Town: Fans flocking to non-League games amid elite football's lockout

Farnham Town are attracting local Reading, Aldershot and Southampton fans, whose teams are currently playing behind closed doors

www.skysports.com

All non league clubs should be allowed limited fans in that can social distance or a lot of clubs will fold

Premier League and Championship I dont agree with because what really is the difference between an empty stadium or one with 2/3 thousand fans rattling about in it

 

[NickHSpurs]

Theatre's are shut. Thousands have lost their livelihood because of it.

There are a huge number of theatres currently open?

They’re quietly reopening, I’m amazed there hasn’t been more coverage about it and I’m not sure if that’s because the government are worried about inconsistency or not.

London Palladium have just done a run of three Van Morrison gigs with 1,200 inside. That’s 52% of their capacity. Arsene Wenger is doing an evening with there next week, Russell Brand has announced a show there in November.

In London I read that the Apollo Theatre, The Garrick, Palace Theatre, Theatre Royal and the Lyric to name a few have all announced shows in October and/or November.

 

[ultimateloner]

I dont think it will happen. Too many people in close proximity at the height of their emotions. It takes only a few reckless/infected individuals for a big outbreak. Can you imagine the numbers?

If only 10 people of the 70k that went into the stadium had it, and let's say each person infects 10 others/hour and those other 10 do the same, for 12 days straight...

I can't even see how you can stop/identify infected individuals who go into the stadium. Some of them might not have symptoms and only find out later, and that's ignoring idiots who already have it and still go.

 

[Lilbaz]

Think things will only change when the rapid tests come out. You might have to go to the ground the day before, get a 15 min test then if negative be issued a ticket. I'm sure they'll figure some way. They've started using the new good ones in madrid (not football but the city) to try and combat the spread.

 

[$hoguN]

So you can stand in a crowd on a train going to work or queing to the supermarket but you can't stand outside watching a game of football - its a nonsense

If they reported persons lost years and not deaths is a meaningful stat -

This is a such a naive post as it completely misses the fact you have commute to the match, buy food etc, drink, go use the toilet... So what you end up doing is creating a shed load of opportunities to spread the virus.

Its not about whether you can stand outside a couple of metres from your mates or not.

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

In my experience where i live you can indeed have lots of people getting drunk in pubs watching football. Every pub local to me is advertising that they are showing games all day & the pubs are full. Seated only granted, but people can be in there from 11am to 10pm.

Im not trying to be obstructive I just dont see how major cities allow all pubs to stay open to 10pm and watch thousands and thousands of people to all go home at the same time, but cannot review a football game the same way?

Doesn’t make it right and what you say is part of the reason behind the issues in the north of England.

Personally I would not go into a pub that was showing football as in a lot of cases there would be no control.

 

[tony0379]

Think things will only change when the rapid tests come out. You might have to go to the ground the day before, get a 15 min test then if negative be issued a ticket. I'm sure they'll figure some way. They've started using the new good ones in madrid (not football but the city) to try and combat the spread.

Hasn't it been reported at our stadium we've been trialling a test which gives you instant results?

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

I was one of those that compared it to theatres which is also im sure the perspective some who want fans to go back are also seeing it from. The question though, like you say is the public transport aspect which is the reason im personally not going to go back for a while.

Is it really more dangerous going on public transport to football as it is going to oxford street to shop? or to the theatre int he evening? or to central london for a meal?

15k fans going to spurs spread out over several trains, several methods of transport and several stations etc is and wont be jam packed - having said that im not going to take that risk

Good luck in the queues for the trains and buses home??????

 

[slartibartfast]

They’re quietly reopening, I’m amazed there hasn’t been more coverage about it and I’m not sure if that’s because the government are worried about inconsistency or not.

London Palladium have just done a run of three Van Morrison gigs with 1,200 inside. That’s 52% of their capacity. Arsene Wenger is doing an evening with there next week, Russell Brand has announced a show there in November.

In London I read that the Apollo Theatre, The Garrick, Palace Theatre, Theatre Royal and the Lyric to name a few have all announced shows in October and/or November.

Is that because the show must go on though?

I'll get my coat ?

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

Hasn't it been reported at our stadium we've been trialling a test which gives you instant results?

Trouble is that test is too late. The infected have travelled on public transport and been in the pubs. Then you are going to try to stop them entering the ground.

The issue is the mass transportation of 15000 and others who have no tickets to and from the ground.

 

[tommo84]

The petition won’t achieve anything as the Govt has no appetite to add to the risks of COVID overwhelming our NHS and even those of us are more relaxed about the virus have to acknowledge it would add to the risk. However, I’ve seen a few posts I had to take issue with:

a) A few of you saying that you wouldn’t want to go for reasons X, Y and Z. That’s fine - on what planet would you be forced to do so? And why should the recovery of society move at a pace dictated by the most fearful/risk averse members of the population?

b) One or two people have posted comments which indicate you’re oblivious to just what a shit state our economy is going to be in (already is) and are taking for granted the notion that big brands/chains will recover. They won’t. Cineworld have gone into hibernation because their industry is unviable at the moment. There’s absolutely no guarantee they will return and the likelihood is that when they do, approximately half of their cinemas will stay shut for good. That’s a lot of jobs both directly and indirectly affected. Retail is going the same way, and a number of restaurant chains have gone. The point I’m making is this: the thing you miss doing, if you don’t do it soon it probably won’t be there when you’re ready to accept the risk. If you’re not ready but others are, isn’t it worth exploring if somebody believes they can do it safely? The test events for sport were - afaik - all a success.

Anyways, I actually think the petition is backfiring on clubs as it’s highlighting just how many people are still inclined not to go, and it’s been launched at a time when it would be madness to reopen stadiums in the North, which massively weakens football’s argument.

 

[Yid121]

I signed it, if they restrict numbers and the use of the concourses would be more than fine

 

[vegassd]

b) One or two people have posted comments which indicate you’re oblivious to just what a shit state our economy is going to be in (already is) and are taking for granted the notion that big brands/chains will recover. They won’t.

I think the economy argument can be taken both ways though...

The worst thing for the economy in general is another national lockdown, and if allowing fans back into PL stadiums is likely to push infection numbers towards that lockdown then it isn't a good thing.

As for Cineworld I can only speak of my experience, but watching Tenet the day after opening there were only about 20 people in the screening and barely anyone in the cinema in general. Yet they still have to employ a decent number of staff to run the place. And even with just a few people in a very controlled environment there were customers not wearing masks or using sanitiser and the teenage part-time staff cannot realistically police that.

I think there's a general lack of confidence about certain environments (like hospitality) which has a domino effect on many businesses. And like so much in life, it only takes a few people humming to their own tune to spoil the music. I'm sure we've all seen those people in shops, pubs, cinemas.

All it takes is for the BBC to interview an NHS worker who takes the bus/train to work talking about the hundreds of football fans crammed onto their bus/train without wearing masks and the national mood turns against it. I don't think PL clubs have much goodwill in the bank from non-football fans so they need to be careful when talking about loss of revenue whilst paying millions in transfers & wages.

 

[dudu]

If you’re of the lower risk demographic and you are smart about who you come in contact with before and after, sure go for it. I had a bunch of friends go to a Cowboys game this weekend and they’re all perfectly fine.

My problem is that I don't trust huge swathes of the general public. I trust myself, my friends and situations that I can manage.

 

[tommo84]

I think the economy argument can be taken both ways though...

The worst thing for the economy in general is another national lockdown, and if allowing fans back into PL stadiums is likely to push infection numbers towards that lockdown then it isn't a good thing.

As for Cineworld I can only speak of my experience, but watching Tenet the day after opening there were only about 20 people in the screening and barely anyone in the cinema in general. Yet they still have to employ a decent number of staff to run the place. And even with just a few people in a very controlled environment there were customers not wearing masks or using sanitiser and the teenage part-time staff cannot realistically police that.

I think there's a general lack of confidence about certain environments (like hospitality) which has a domino effect on many businesses. And like so much in life, it only takes a few people humming to their own tune to spoil the music. I'm sure we've all seen those people in shops, pubs, cinemas.

All it takes is for the BBC to interview an NHS worker who takes the bus/train to work talking about the hundreds of football fans crammed onto their bus/train without wearing masks and the national mood turns against it. I don't think PL clubs have much goodwill in the bank from non-football fans so they need to be careful when talking about loss of revenue whilst paying millions in transfers & wages.

I don’t disagree with any of this - when Cineworld made their announcement I was gutted but not surprised as every screening of attended was 80% empty. I would argue though that the vast numbers of empty seats probably contributed to people being more relaxed about masks etc in those environments.

Lower league clubs need help though and the numbers involved would be much smaller than at EPL levels.

My problem is that I don't trust huge swathes of the general public. I trust myself, my friends and situations that I can manage.

My CEO has said this sort of thing so I can imagine lots of decision makers feel similarly and while I understand it I strongly believe that a person’s distrust of others in this context is a reason to restrict your own movements - not everyone else’s.

 

[Wsussexspur]

Looking at the petition this morning I was surprised it only had around 183k signatures on it. Given it is backed by all Premier League and EFL clubs and the FA etc and all the publicity surrounding it that just doesn't seem that many people. I really cant see the government changing there stance on this any time soon.

I do think though the government should reconsider the ban for league one and league two clubs. I might be completely wrong but think a lot of fans of these clubs will be more locally based fans so wont necessarily have the problems of people travelling distances on public transport etc to get to and from games.

 

[easley91]

As much as I don't want clubs going out of business, we're yet to see the full impact of winter and the flu on top of COVID. Clubs are not the only 'businesses' struggling in this climate either. In fact a lot of people are financially struggling themselves. We all are taking the hit. As much as I do hate it (having been unemployed since June), I think it's something we have to get through. If clubs and companies go then unfortunately that's going to have to happen.

Surely Prem clubs can help out the lower leagues to some degree?

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

From a sporting point of view I think it’s better no fans in the stadium for the season. We play a lot of derby games/grudge matches. i think removing the atmosphere out of those games takes away a lot of the difficulty. the anfield crowd gives Liverpool a big edge as well.

 

[Maxtremist]

As much as I don't want clubs going out of business, we're yet to see the full impact of winter and the flu on top of COVID. Clubs are not the only 'businesses' struggling in this climate either. In fact a lot of people are financially struggling themselves. We all are taking the hit. As much as I do hate it (having been unemployed since June), I think it's something we have to get through. If clubs and companies go then unfortunately that's going to have to happen.

Surely Prem clubs can help out the lower leagues to some degree?

Can Prem clubs help out? Yeah. Most if not all of them have the money and can afford to help out.
Will/Should they? It goes into a moral issue here. It's not their responsibility to help out. They don't have to so they're well within their rights not too... but it is that whole moral thing of if your compatriots etc... are struggling and you can help them out then surely you should? Especially as the EFL/Lower Leagues do help the premier league and without those lower leagues, the top leagues would ultimately suffer.

As for the whole Let Fans In topic... it's such a complex one as shown by the variety of opinions on here.

I agree in principal that the lower league clubs need it more so I'm more inclined to let them have fans in... but that is also an economic viewpoint. Cause 1,000 fans watching Luton play isn't healthier or safer than 1,000 fans watching Tottenham play. If anything, we're the safer option. If if you do it on percentage rather than numbers. So whilst I don't want lower league clubs to go bust and think we need them, we also need to understand that by saying or suggesting them to get fans as they need it more, it is akin to saying the economic risk is worse than the health risk.

So it comes down to having one rule for all or selective rules. And I don't know what the right answer is. Cause naturally there's a sense to making one flat rule that everyone abides too, which currently is no fans. Easier to enforce and no favouritism played there or anything like that. But it'll affect clubs differently as some are better set up to deal with that. So do you then change it per club, where clubs have to meet a certain criteria to be able to let fans in? So we'd have fans in for our games and so would Brentford and Barnet cause London is doing okay? But then Man Utd and City and Stockport can't cause they're in the North of England and whilst all their prep at the stadium is good and well done... their locations aren't in a good spot?

Ultimately I'm generally on the side of we shouldn't have fans in yet. Especially with cases rising and major restrictions in place, opening up stadiums seems like one of the dumbest things you could do.
That then puts the pressure on the government then to be able to offer stimulus packages to these clubs so that they can survive.

Similarly if the premier league clubs WANT to help then I think we would pretty much all welcome that... but I don't think we should expect that premier league clubs HAVE to help out. It's not their fault this is happening.

Similar to Billionaires and distributing their wealth. I think hoarding that much money is morally abhorrent but they can do that. I would also say it would be so fantastic if they shared out their wealth to those less fortunate.

 

[Japhet]

If we rewind a few months, we had a fairly hard lockdown because infection rates were rising. During that period, Dominic Cummings got in his car and drove hundreds of miles to visit family members. He was lambasted for breaking the rules and being an idiot (and rightly so). Compare that to the prospect of thousands of people around the country using public transport to get to football matches where they would have to share facilities with each other and the problem is pretty obvious. Yes, we have better testing facilities and 'track & trace' technology but that isn't going to stop the spread. Controlling the spread relies on social distancing and cutting out spurious contact with others.