Let's All Laugh At... Let's all laugh at Liverpool thread

[RuskyM]

I mean, I've lived in Liverpool, I've read the grim details of the cover-ups and the families affected by lies from those in power. Can fully get why they're not exactly jumping at showing support for the figurehead of a country that provably did not do the same. I get the rivalry but imo it goes to quite grim places quite fast.

 

[Grey Fox]

Always the victims

 

[chas vs dave]

I mean, I've lived in Liverpool, I've read the grim details of the cover-ups and the families affected by lies from those in power. Can fully get why they're not exactly jumping at showing support for the figurehead of a country that provably did not do the same. I get the rivalry but imo it goes to quite grim places quite fast.

If there is one area that should feel aggrieved, then its London. Its the only local government that runs at a surplus, and props up the rest. This is despite it having some of the worst poverty in the country.

 

[easley91]

Liverpool isn't the only place that has struggled and continues to struggle. Though I always thought it was due to the cover up of Hillsborough by the government.

 

[al_pacino]

I'm sure one of the simpler answers, especially in the replies to that Henderson tweet, are the number of Irish fans both in Ireland and in Liverpool.

 

[TheChosenOne]

The Liverpudlians are probably still a bit pissed because of when I was up there at a shrine in Matthew Street

It said "Four Lads Who Shook The World" - So I innocently asked the tour fellah standing there was it "Frankie Goes To Hollywood"

 

[TheChosenOne]

I'm sure one of the simpler answers, especially in the replies to that Henderson tweet, are the number of Irish fans both in Ireland and in Liverpool.

That is NOT a simple answer.

 

[Trix]

Cup final booing 'not something I enjoyed’ - Klopp

Jurgen Klopp says the booing of the national anthem by Liverpool fans before their FA Cup final victory against Chelsea is “not something I enjoyed”.

www.bbc.co.uk

Why do Liverpool fans boo the national anthem?

John Gibbons from Liverpool fan podcast The Anfield Wrap said he was "surprised" the booing became front page news.

"It happened at the Carabao Cup final a few months ago and it happened in 2012 [FA Cup final] when we played the same opposition," he told BBC Radio Merseyside.

"What I would say to anyone buying these headlines is maybe look into why Liverpool fans act this way, why they feel a disconnect from the country and disconnect from a royal family sat on gold thrones telling people they are going to have tough times ahead.

"It's something Liverpool fans feel strongly about. It's a city that wants to be vocal about how we think this country should be and how we should live in a fairer society."

Gibbons called on people who criticised the protest to "maybe come up to Liverpool and speak to people and visit the food banks and see how some people in this city are struggling".

I know it isn't as simple as this but Gibbons reasoning does reek of excuse.

Perhaps then boo your club as well for spending many millions on footballers if that's the overriding feeling in the city. I'd also place a fairly hefty bet that a significant number booing aren't even from Liverpool.

I'd also add that who the fuck do they think they are? A disconnect from the country? People aren't struggling all over? It's just there? Just them?

The trouble is, you can't punish a club for the actions of it's fans. The club won't feel this way, nor will thousands of decent supporters. There's nothing much they can do if people decide to boo.

However, I do understand there's a special hatred for them and wanting to see them punished in glorious ways is the popular feeling on here

Fuck them. But, it wouldn't surprise me at all if this went either way. It'll either get booing or be perfectly observed, my feeling is that they'll behave. As others have said if they boo, there should be no excuses.

So surely you'd get the same level of disconnect and vitriol shown by Everton and Tranmere fans if it was a regional issue?

It's clearly just the same victim mentality they have shown time and time again over the years.

 

[aliyid]

Finally the world will see them for what they are.
Media won’t be able to gloss over it (surely)

Some in the media are already trying to position it as 'so what if they boo'

 

[Gspurs11]

So surely you'd get the same level of disconnect and vitriol shown by Everton and Tranmere fans if it was a regional issue?

It's clearly just the same victim mentality they have shown time and time again over the years.

Maybe Everton or Tranmere fans aren't as vocal at games, but when you take football out of it, there's still the same animosity towards Government and authority.

You speak about 'victim mentality', and I think that's almost a classist line you're parroting, that buys into the narrative Liverpool as a city is full of benefit-claiming dossers who do nothing but moan about how hard they've got it. That region was decimated by Thatcher's policies of targeted, managed decline and decimated the City's economy. It turned an economy that rivalled London's in the post-war era to one of the impoverished City's in Europe. Consecutive Tory government's considered the place a write off, consistently cutting local funding, because it was, and still is, a working-class Labour stronghold. Liverpool, like other places in the UK, was failed by the country.

When you look at Hillsborough, the Government and the media tried to paint them as selfish idiots who killed their own fans for decades. It took the same amount of time for the families campaigning to reveal the truth of an institutional cover-up and hold power to account.

Those alone would make you feel bitter and cynical towards the institution of government and authority. Boo'ing the national anthem is an expression of that, whether you agree with it or not

 

[dickieven]

Maybe Everton or Tranmere fans aren't as vocal at games, but when you take football out of it, there's still the same animosity towards Government and authority.

You speak about 'victim mentality', and I think that's almost a classist line you're parroting, that buys into the narrative Liverpool as a city is full of benefit-claiming dossers who do nothing but moan about how hard they've got it. That region was decimated by Thatcher's policies of targeted, managed decline and decimated the City's economy. It turned an economy that rivalled London's in the post-war era to one of the impoverished City's in Europe, consistently cutting local funding. Consecutive Tory government's considered the place a write off because it was, and still is, a working-class Labour stronghold. Liverpool, like other places in the UK, was failed by the country.

When you look at Hillsborough, the Government and the media tried to paint them as selfish idiots who killed their own fans for decades. It took the same amount of time for the families campaigning to reveal the truth of an institutional cover-up and hold power to account.

Those alone would make you feel bitter and cynical towards the institution of government and authority. Boo'ing the national anthem is an expression of that, whether you agree with it or not

Everton fans are probably the best booers in the country so we would definitely hear them. They probably haven't been at many games where a national anthem is played. Having said that I do agree this is the Liverpool (football club not city) victim mentality.

 

[Trix]

Maybe Everton or Tranmere fans aren'y as vocal at games, but when you take football out of it, there's still the same animosity towards Government and authority.

You speak about 'victim mentality' and I think that's almost a classist line that buys into the narrative Liverpool as a city is full of benefit-claiming dossers who do nothing but moan about how hard they've got it. That region was decimated by Thatcher's policies of targeted, managed decline and decimated the City's economy. It turned an economy that rivalled London's in the post-war era to one of the impoverished City's in Europe. Consecutive Tory government's considered the place a write off because it was, and still is, a working-class Labour stronghold. Liverpool, like other places in the UK, was failed by the country.

When you look at Hillsborough, the Government and the media tried to paint them as selfish idiots who killed their own fans for decades. It took the same amount of time for the families campaigning to reveal the truth of an institutional cover-up.

Those alone would make you feel bitter and cynical towards the institution of government.

Fuck the political bollocks mate, I'm talking about the "justice for Suarez" type shit. I suppose him being a racist and them all defending him to the hilt was Thatcher's fault? Or Heysel because that wasn't their fault either according to them.

 

[Gspurs11]

Fuck the political bollocks mate, I'm talking about the "justice for Suarez" type shit. I suppose him being a racist and them all defending him to the hilt was Thatcher's fault? Or Heysel because that wasn't their fault either according to them.

I don't think the two can be separated. Most clubs deeply identity with their area and its supporters (those who are Scousers, anyway) experienced that socio-economic impact and marginalisation.

It's a bit of a straw man to point at the "justice for Suarez" campaign (which was fucking ridiculous) and paint a whole club's fanbase. I don't really know enough about Heysel to argue that point.

 

[allatsea]

Fuck the political bollocks mate, I'm talking about the "justice for Suarez" type shit. I suppose him being a racist and them all defending him to the hilt was Thatcher's fault? Or Heysel because that wasn't their fault either according to them.

They always like to gloss over Heysel.

 

[PCozzie]

Here's the thing about whether Liverpool fans have 'got a point', or whether what they may say or do is offensive. It's about timing. This can be extended to other various incidents and protests over the last few days too.

Do I find the view that we should abolish the Monarchy offensive? No. I don't agree with the sentiment, but it's not an offensive viewpoint. It's often articulated perfectly reasonably, by perfectly reasonable people. Would I find it offensive if I came down to London next year and someone was standing outside Buck House with an '#abolishthemonarchy' poster? No, of course not. But would I find it offensive if the same person was waving it in front of the Queens funeral cortege? Yes I bloody would.

Am I offended by Liverpool fan's booing of the national anthem ordinarily? Maybe a bit, but honestly I can deal with it. Would I be offended if they booed it tonight? Yes, too right I would. Really offended.

The offence I take isn't their lack of respect for the institution of the Monarchy, or of the Government at other times. It's that those booing are so utterly indifferent to the emotions of other people who are grieving; that their own sense of importance leads them to offend, and to intend to offend - to use other people at their most vulnerable to further their cause, and then to claim victimhood when they are criticised.

Lets hope that they heed the old saying: If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

 

[E17yid]

Here's the thing about whether Liverpool fans have 'got a point', or whether what they may say or do is offensive. It's about timing. This can be extended to other various incidents and protests over the last few days too.

Do I find the view that we should abolish the Monarchy offensive? No. I don't agree with the sentiment, but it's not an offensive viewpoint. It's often articulated perfectly reasonably, by perfectly reasonable people. Would I find it offensive if I came down to London next year and someone was standing outside Buck House with an '#abolishthemonarchy' poster? No, of course not. But would I find it offensive if the same person was waving it in front of the Queens funeral cortege? Yes I bloody would.

Am I offended by Liverpool fan's booing of the national anthem ordinarily? Maybe a bit, but honestly I can deal with it. Would I be offended if they booed it tonight? Yes, too right I would. Really offended.

The offence I take isn't their lack of respect for the institution of the Monarchy, or of the Government at other times. It's that those booing are so utterly indifferent to the emotions of other people who are grieving; that their own sense of importance leads them to offend, and to intend to offend - to use other people at their most vulnerable to further their cause, and then to claim victimhood when they are criticised.

Lets hope that they heed the old saying: If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

I agree that it’s not the best look and I personally wouldn’t do it but should political free speech be contingent on whether people are offended? Isn’t the whole point that people are free to express themselves as long as they’re not inciting violence and are on public ground?

Obviously if you’re on here or any other platform that has TOS then it’s up to them and LFC may decide to take action against anyone but if you’re on public property it shouldn’t matter if people find it offensive or not imo

I actually think the vast majority of Liverpool fans will be respectful. I might be totally wrong in that but I think you’ll only have 10-20% of fans booing. The problem is you only need a few hundred people booing to make it sound like it’s the whole stadium kicking off.

 

[RuskyM]

I used to understand the "always the victims" shit but when you're on the same side as Kelvin Mackenzie, Margaret Thatcher and people who literally blamed children for their own deaths, maybe you should reconsider. The same thing happened at the CL final this year - absolute bollocks that fed on classism, allowing fans to say "same old Liverpool!" as their fans were literally being attacked by the police. I get the want for a bogeyman but this quickly becomes grim beyond football allegiances.

 

[PCozzie]

I agree that it’s not the best look and I personally wouldn’t do it but should political free speech be contingent on whether people are offended? Isn’t the whole point that people are free to express themselves as long as they’re not inciting violence and are on public ground?

Obviously if you’re on here or any other platform that has TOS then it’s up to them and LFC may decide to take action against anyone but if you’re on public property it shouldn’t matter if people find it offensive or not imo

I actually think the vast majority of Liverpool fans will be respectful. I might be totally wrong in that but I think you’ll only have 10-20% of fans booing. The problem is you only need a few hundred people booing to make it sound like it’s the whole stadium kicking off.

Free speech isn't an absolute right, and there are various ways in which you can break the law by saying certain things that are offensive, for example by being racist or homophobic. I think most people agree that there are limits. I don't think that expressing the sentiment that the Monarchy should be abolished comes anywhere near to crossing that line, and people should be allowed to say it, and campaign for it if they so wish.

However, 'causing offence' and 'intending to offend' have some distinctions. Many people would be offended by the simple sentiment to abolish the Monarchy on any given day of the year, irrespective of anything else that's happened. Well OK, fine. Someone holds a different view to you and you're offended by that. You can't expect everyone to think the same and it would be really dull if they did.

But when that person can see your grief over losing the Queen and decides to take advantage of that and chooses that time specifically to say or do something in order to offend you - that's different. It may not be against the law, and that's almost always correct, but it does mark you out as being some special kind of dick-head. And when you're similtaneously claiming that everyone has it in for you and your club, well you can fuck off, and then fuck off some more.

(When I say 'you', I obviously don't mean *you*)

 

[Gb160]

Free speech isn't an absolute right, and there are various ways in which you can break the law by saying certain things that are offensive, for example by being racist or homophobic. I think most people agree that there are limits. I don't think that expressing the sentiment that the Monarchy should be abolished comes anywhere near to crossing that line, and people should be allowed to say it, and campaign for it if they so wish.

However, 'causing offence' and 'intending to offend' have some distinctions. Many people would be offended by the simple sentiment to abolish the Monarchy on any given day of the year, irrespective of anything else that's happened. Well OK, fine. Someone holds a different view to you and you're offended by that. You can't expect everyone to think the same and it would be really dull if they did.

But when that person can see your grief over losing the Queen and decides to take advantage of that and chooses that time specifically to say or do something in order to offend you - that's different. It may not be against the law, and that's almost always correct, but it does mark you out as being some special kind of dick-head. And when you're similtaneously claiming that everyone has it in for you and your club, well you can fuck off, and then fuck off some more.

(When I say 'you', I obviously don't mean *you*)

This is it.
This isnt about free speech tonight, it’s about showing some common fucking decency towards a fair chunk of the nation that are grieving.

 

[Moonie]

Having a quick look through RAWK, it seems the consensus will be to observe the minutes silence, not because they like the monarchy or the Queen, but because Klopp has asked them too and they respect him. Lets hope they have the decency for the whole of 60 seconds! We shall see.