Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[fishhhandaricecake]

Is all this fuss from Trix just because Skipp came on instead of Donley at the weekend? We played players out of position at centre back, but many saying that Dorrington and Phillips aren't ready yet. Skipp came on and we moved players around, I'd have like to have seen Donley instead, but it wasn't a crazy decision, and feels like lots of this is being massively blown out of proportion.

You’ve nailed it.

 

[Singaspur]

No, you misunderstand me. We can point out issues, but the way that some are doing it, seemingly to take great glee in being able to jump back on their favourite past-time of bashing Spurs. There are huge glaring issues in the squad that have been exposed. No-one when the injuries and suspensions happened was predicting much more than losses in the forthcoming games, and yet, when it happens and we actually play quite well, we get some of the most ridiculous nonsense I've ever read.

As for what helps me sleep at night, my antidepressants, magnesium, and some sleep patches that have melatonin and lavender oil in, ideally also a diffuser on with some good oils.

Like? Agree? Funny?

We need multiple ratings/responses.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

All I read on here for months was that people didn't care about results and they just wanted to watch good football. I always knew that was nonsense but didn't think some would buckle so quickly.

If anything the Villa game has given me more confidence. If he can get that performance out of a mainly second string - with a squad that isn't full of his own players then great things are coming.

Its never been as cut and dry as that however I would say that the vast majority have proven than is the case as I've read tons of comments saying that even though we've lost 3 on the bounce and that we lost to Villa that they're very happy right now with the way we are playing etc because we actually attack and try to win games, just because a minority few are moaning a bit doesn't reflect the majority who are relieved and happy and proud to have a Manager who is trying to play attacking exciting football and a Manager who actually wants to be at the club.

As for your 2nd part I fully agree as I think 90% of others do that with players returning and some more signings Ange can do something really special, however we are going to need to be patient as the next few months could be rough resultswise given our injury and suspension situation.

 

[HildoSpur]

Is all this fuss from Trix just because Skipp came on instead of Donley at the weekend? We played players out of position at centre back, but many saying that Dorrington and Phillips aren't ready yet. Skipp came on and we moved players around, I'd have like to have seen Donley instead, but it wasn't a crazy decision, and feels like lots of this is being massively blown out of proportion.

Yeah as I've said at least twice in this thread Skipp was a perfectly fine sub when you realise he was brought on to enable a formation change which allowed us to bring on another striker and go two strikers up top which we did when Veliz also came on. Getting annoyed because Skipp came on instead of Donley is a null argument really. Now there could be a discussion as to whether he could have brought on Donley instead of Veliz to play up top with Son but as I've said before I'm not sure if Donley is seen as a striker but more of a 10. When seen in this context the subs seem perfectly reasonable to me.

 

[djhotspur]

Eddie Howe started 17 yo Lewis Miley against PSG last night who didn't look at all out of place in an injury riddled side. You need to have a little more faith in these kids coming through. 2-3 years ago I would never have pushed for any of them to get minutes because they weren't up to it. The players I am talking about are stand outs in their age group and should be getting game time when half the squad is crocked and/or playing out of position. I'd also add if we had everybody fit I wouldn't be pushing it either. It's the fact that we are so light in personnel right now and they are still being ignored that is the problem.

Do we have any wingers coming through. Need one for the bloody bench

 

[easley91]

Eddie Howe started 17 yo Lewis Miley against PSG last night who didn't look at all out of place in an injury riddled side. You need to have a little more faith in these kids coming through. 2-3 years ago I would never have pushed for any of them to get minutes because they weren't up to it. The players I am talking about are stand outs in their age group and should be getting game time when half the squad is crocked and/or playing out of position. I'd also add if we had everybody fit I wouldn't be pushing it either. It's the fact that we are so light in personnel right now and they are still being ignored that is the problem.

Lewis Miley had the likes of Joelinton and Almiron around him. You know, Howe's usual starters. We had a completely new midfield and CB pairing. Also Howe has been there for over a season and Ange a few months. Howe has his system in place. Ange is still working on his.

I'm sorry I just don't think we have the system or current timing in place to stick youth on. If we have our usual big senior names alongside them then yes play them. I trust Ange on this and I'm sorry if the lads are impatient, but their time will come soon enough if they keep doing what they're doing.

Are you really advocating for Dorrington to start with one of Emerson, Davies or Dier in a position that requires concentration and knowledge in a league where one mistake is game changing? Donley not being brought on v Villa I didn't agree with, but when we had a completely new midfield 3 and that 3 worked until Bentancur got injured, he didn't need to start. I'd much rather start Donley when we have Bissouma and Sarr around him so he has that experience and there is less pressure.

Sounds like people want to give Ange time to implement his stuff, but won't let him use the youth how he sees fit because previous managers didn't use them. That's unfair on Ange to expect him to just suddenly start them every week. Besides the season ends in May. It's December on Friday. Plenty of time for youth to be involved yet.

I don't know what happened with the bench on Sunday, but again I'm sure Ange has his reasons. If we don't trust him, then what's the point?

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

Do we have any wingers coming through. Need one for the bloody bench

Santiago but he's injured too!

 

[Pistols At Dawn]

It’s funny, this forum is such a tempest in a teapot.

I have read a LOT of threads, and I do not see the fan base turning against Ange in any way, and yet there are posts and posts and posts about how that exact thing is happening, and everyone is lamenting that some of us are losing faith.

No one is losing faith in Ange. Stop saying it. Stop THINKING it. It’s not real.

 

[mpickard2087]

If you're not winning games then people - fans, media, and even players/staff/officials involved in football clubs - start to get antsy, and the complaints and calls for change usually advocate doing the opposite of whatever is currently happening in the vain hope that that is the magic bullet.

Defensive teams should start attacking. Attacking teams should be more defensive. The tactics are too rigid. The tactics are non-existent. The training is too intense. The training is too lax. The manager is too strict. The manager is a soft touch. Didn't sign enough players. Signed too many players. Play the kids. Don't play the kids. Blah, blah, blah, you see these narratives every single week in football regarding clubs who are having a bit of a struggle.

That is never going to change, it's inevitable some will be making these comments at the moment.

Personally I don't see any cause for concern with the overall approach. Now look, I think a lot of the comments and proclamations being taken as gospel about the first 10 games and it being "scintillating attacking football" etc are OTT (there were a number of halves of matches at least which were various shades of mediocre or unconvincing, and some of the results did have good fortune to them), but quite clearly what we were seeing was something positive that everyone could get behind and decent foundations were being put in place.

That hasn't changed one bit. In these three defeats I don't think it is the tactical approach that has been the problem. Chelsea match the team got extraordinarily wiped out by injuries and red cards, 11v11 in the opening stages we're causing them big problems and millimetres on an offside call from being deservedly 2-0 up. Wolves wasn't a good performance, but a game we should have won yet threw away. Villa we dominated for most of the game, and was arguably the best we've knocked the ball around all season and could/should have scored a bucketful, but one of those times in the season where the opposition perform a smash and grab. I'm not seeing anything that screams the system and style of play getting exposed.

This doesn't mean I don't have my quibbles with some of what Postecoglou does. 10 unbeaten or not, I said from minute one of this season that I found his midfield selections a bit safe, I think some games we could absolutely be getting a second 8/10 type alongside Maddison, and I wanted at least one more pass and move type player for midfield last summer. It's interesting that none of our "first choice midfield" were out there at the weekend and yet we moved the ball and put sustained and frequent attacking sequences together probably better than any previous game so far, largely due to having a Bentancur/Lo Celso combo out there who are on a similar wavelength, float about, find space, move ball, repeat, and think this should be food for thought.

None of the others fill that "metronomic" (copyright: the late BC of this parish) role who keeps possession moving and sustained in the right areas. Maddison has been a great signing but is more final third risk-taker/pass forcer. Bissouma, like Dembele before him, provides great comfort blanket security with his ability to absorb pressure and weave his way out of tight spaces.... but this is often superfluous stuff when pass & move would do, and he rarely sees a telling pass lets be honest. Sarr has lots of admirable qualities and has moments, helps a lot with the press, and will run all day for you, but I think his general play contributions with the ball tend to be a bit sporadic and, you get the gist, sometimes another foot on the ball player would be more appropriate. I'm hoping this is also something the manager comes to agree with in due course.....

I think our style of play would also be greatly helped by better options on either flank, and hope AP has this high on the shopping list he presents to his superiors.

To sum all that up, on a micro level of course there are things to quibble with. The bigger picture I think things are fine and don't see anything to alarm or reasons as to why you would change the ethos and approach. At the moment we're in a difficult period due to the number of (key) players unavailable. That might have an impact on us tactically, and on performance/result, we might even go from 10 unbeaten to losing most of the next 10 even, but that is no reason for the manager to change what he is doing, the approach to it, and trying to build some foundations in what are still the early months. Stay the course, get through this patch, accept the fruits might not be enjoyed at the moment.

 

[McFlash]

Is all this fuss from Trix just because Skipp came on instead of Donley at the weekend? We played players out of position at centre back, but many saying that Dorrington and Phillips aren't ready yet. Skipp came on and we moved players around, I'd have like to have seen Donley instead, but it wasn't a crazy decision, and feels like lots of this is being massively blown out of proportion.

Yep and Phillips is injured, as far as I know, so that's a bit pointless too.

I'd expect to see something of Donley soon but it's hardly something to complain about just yet.

 

[EQP]

We have the following games in December.

City
West Ham
Newcastle
NFO
Everton
Brighton
Bournemouth

I have no doubt that Ange will look to the younger players to come in and help the team because he literally has no other options to manage the overall workload given our squad issues. My money is on Donley, Dorrington and maybe even Tyrese Hall making their debuts next month.

 

[spurs9]

The quote was used in response to a post I made about winning comes first, everything else is secondary. Not once did I imply that I don’t care how we play, I’m just stating what matters MOST to me. The literal definition of glory is winning honours or achieving success. That’s what I care about most, not how we get there. I’m still going to enjoy every minute of the football we play, but I want us to win first and foremost. It’s simply an opinion, nothing more.

I understand the quote completely, but since then we haven’t lived up to that at all. 63 years is a long time. Long enough to disprove the fallacy used in the quote. That’s all I was trying to say.

How that invited such a negative response is beyond me.

Actually, I posted the quote in response to your post suggesting the "glory" in "glory glory Tottenham Hotspur" was about winning.

My response had nothing to do with your preference for winning over everything else.

 

[spurs9]

Eddie Howe started 17 yo Lewis Miley against PSG last night who didn't look at all out of place in an injury riddled side. You need to have a little more faith in these kids coming through. 2-3 years ago I would never have pushed for any of them to get minutes because they weren't up to it. The players I am talking about are stand outs in their age group and should be getting game time when half the squad is crocked and/or playing out of position. I'd also add if we had everybody fit I wouldn't be pushing it either. It's the fact that we are so light in personnel right now and they are still being ignored that is the problem.

Newcastle playing Miley proves absolutely nothing about Donley, in the same way Everton playing Rooney at 16 doesn't mean we should have be playing Kane at 16.

The numbers Donley has been putting up in the U21 league this season, Miley was putting up last season when he was just 16.

I say this as a huge Donley fan btw and would love to see him come off the bench, but despite getting assists in both games, he did struggle vs 2 league One men's teams he played this season.

 

[Romulus]

Newcastle United playing a 17 year old kid away to PSG and home to Chelsea & doing really well too.

Say what you want but Donley should have made his debut by now.

And again... Kobbie Mainoo who's in the same England age group as Jamie Donley is playing away at galatasary.

 

[nicdic]

And again... Kobbie Mainoo who's in the same England age group as Jamie Donley is playing away at galatasary.

What's your point?

 

[Blake Griffin]

The numbers Donley has been putting up in the U21 league this season, Miley was putting up last season when he was just 16.

was he?

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Actually, I posted the quote in response to your post suggesting the "glory" in "glory glory Tottenham Hotspur" was about winning.

My response had nothing to do with your preference for winning over everything else.

The quote you posted has nothing to do with the chant either, but let’s leave the conversation here. We’ve moved forward already

 

[McFlash]

And again... Kobbie Mainoo who's in the same England age group as Jamie Donley is playing away at galatasary.

And he looked quite decent but let's not forget that all players develop at a different pace.
Just because some managers think a youth of theirs is ready to play in a big game, doesn't necessarily mean that Ange is wrong for not throwing Donley in yet.
For every Rooney, there are several Bostocks.

 

[McFlash]

Newcastle playing Miley proves absolutely nothing about Donley, in the same way Everton playing Rooney at 16 doesn't mean we should have be playing Kane at 16.

The numbers Donley has been putting up in the U21 league this season, Miley was putting up last season when he was just 16.

I say this as a huge Donley fan btw and would love to see him come off the bench, but despite getting assists in both games, he did struggle vs 2 league One men's teams he played this season.

The rush to play youngsters is understandable but I always come back to that striker we had, whose name escapes me.
He was putting up seriously impressive numbers through the youth teams but ended up at somewhere like Stevenage, before disappearing.
I had such high hope for that lad but for me, he was probably the first example of getting carried away by a youngster putting up good numbers but not being able to carry it into the men's game.

 

[FrankSpencer]

The rush to play youngsters is understandable but I always come back to that striker we had, whose name escapes me.
He was putting up seriously impressive numbers through the youth teams but ended up at somewhere like Stevenage, before disappearing.
I had such high hope for that lad but for me, he was probably the first example of getting carried away by a youngster putting up good numbers but not being able to carry it into the men's game.

Terry Dixon?