Next Manager Watch

[easley91]

Daniel Levy has systematically failed in his remit for the best part of 5 years - being generous to him - and you think people are getting pissed at “little things”?

Little things like him taking the disastrous Nuno saga of two years ago, rinsing, and repeating it but on steroids?

If you think these are “little things” then you’ve fundamentally misunderstood the genuine precipice upon which our status as a club currently rests, thanks to Daniel fucking Levy.

These are not little things.

This situation is not an innocuous irrelevance.

That you can’t see that and think we’re just having a little blip or something, is astounding.

Where have I said I see this as a blip? I get Levy is the issue. I have even said I want him out.

I think being linked with Ange is a little thing to be angry over. He hasn't even signed a contract with us has he? That's my point.

 

[bridgman]

Well it would have been hard to be proved wrong wouldnt it. Given ANY and I do mean any professional manager would have a 50% chance of winning the league up there.

It's one thing to win the league, but he brought a newfound excitement to that club, and some fresh new ideas that European Managers would never even think to try, like bringing in players from the J-League.

We just finished 8th, and have been playing boring, uninspired football for what, 3 years now? I think we're due for some fresh ideas.

 

[Japhet]

I don't think Nagelsman is being overlooked. Pretty sure he was first on Levy's list. He's either turned us down or as per the rumour his demands are too high for Levy.

If he's first on the list Levy should be doing everything to get him as long as he's available. If there's any truth in the rumour that Napoli could get him then we can afford him too. Levy wants everything on the cheap as we all know and wants to stick his oar in on the football side too.

 

[Dakes]

I have no preference for any manager coming in at this point. But one needs to be appointed ASAP, so, if it's gonna be Ange, he should be in on Monday.

Let the Aussie rule

 

[allatsea]

So many negative and positive posts about Ange but is there even the slightest indication that he is interested in us ?

 

[bigfrooj]

its a good job that unproven managers Bill Nicholson and Keith Burkinshaw lived in simpler times. Nobody was demanding Matt Busby or Bob Paisley when they were appointed - and having public meltdowns. Modern football fans, eh? You’ll get what you’re given and get behind them - because that’s the way it is, and it has always been.

 

[Nebby]

Been said a million times on here already, but success at Celtic doesn’t automatically translate to the PL.

Its’s a big gamble hoping he’s going to outperform expectations like Poch did.

Like I said in the original post, I’d love to be proved wrong but it has disaster written all over it for me.

And it doesn’t disprove it either. I’m reminded of all those footballing experts who thought Southampton were mad to buy VVD from Celtic, and that being in the Scottish team of the year two years running didn’t mean anything in terms of the PL.

 

[Trix]

I never insinuated that hiring experienced managers is inherently a bad idea. I was actually making more or less the same point in your first paragraph; certain managers work better for certain teams and specific ways of playing.

Maybe the board didn't support Mourinho and Conte enough, but even if they did, I'm not convinced their style of football is capable of competing for titles in the Premier League in the current year. The point is we shouldn't be only looking to hire an experienced big-name manager for the sake of hiring an experienced big-name manager.

Our last good managerial appointment was Mauricio Pochettino. Why was he a good appointment? Because he came in during a grim set of circumstances, turned it all around, got us playing quality, high-intensity football and had us challenging for trophies.
What is Ange Postecoglou? A manager with a proven record of turning things around, being appointed by teams in grim situations and making them title contenders in their respective league. Yeah, maybe winning the title with Celtic isn't that impressive at face value, but ask any Celtic fan and they'll tell you their football is more exciting and fun to watch than it's been for decades.

Jose and Conte were both good appointments on paper who the club failed to back sufficiently. I know people will harp on about how much money was spent, but however you look at it we didn't get them what they needed and that was an absolute necessity to make it work.

It really is simple If the club know a manager needs specific pieces before they start and they fail to give him those specifics it's on the club, and if they didn't know they are idiots and it's still on the club. Thats what happens when there is no coherent long term plan in place.

 

[TOLBINY]

Not all proven coaches are Mourinho or Conte. They didn't fail because they were experienced winners, they failed because they have specific ways of working and needed certain players to do so which the board did not provide. In essence they were extremely poor choices by the hierarchy who should have known what was required for them to succeed from the off.

There will certainly be up and coming managers that require specific player types that fit specific systems just as there are proven managers that are adaptable.

Some posters need to get out of this mindset that all experienced winners are a disaster waiting to happen and that the answer lies only in a youthful vibrant choice. It's all about individual fit and nothing else. Anyone with any shred of sense would take Pep over Nagelsmann and Nagelsmann over Big Sam because it's about ability and nothing else.

Or perhaps the board should have given them what they needed to succeed? Instead it seems the board want a manager who can get the best out of the squad they are given. Who knows, maybe that's what Conte actually achieved having got us to and kept us in 4th place - do we honestly think our squad is much better than that?

 

[SuperLuka]

Well it would have been hard to be proved wrong wouldnt it. Given ANY and I do mean any professional manager would have a 50% chance of winning the league up there.

It's more like a 90%chance of winning the league

 

[Japhet]

Jose and Conte were both good appointments on paper who the club failed to back sufficiently. I know people will harp on about how much money was spent, but however you look at it we didn't get them what they needed and that was an absolute necessity to make it work.

It really is simple If the club know a manager needs specific pieces before they start and they fail to give him those specifics it's on the club, and if they didn't know they are idiots and it's still on the club. Thats what happens when there is no coherent long term plan in place.

If memory serves me right, I'm pretty sure Mourinho said he didn't need anything to make the squad he inherited work. He then subsequently started moving the goalposts.

 

[tony0379]

So many negative and positive posts about Ange but is there even the slightest indication that he is interested in us ?

Once him and Levy have a pint and he rolls out his O-levels sob story. It's game over

 

[Harrier]

People get way too focused on things like "what club" and "what achievements", and miss all the detail inbetween.


Refer to:

Again, what gamble? What are we risking? The Champions League spot we don't currently have? How is Postecoglou any more of a gamble than the expensive Conte?

I'm much more comfortable hiring a guy who plays an attacking, aggressive, high-intensity brand of football than someone who plays a very defensive, structured italian style of football.
Have you forgotten the last time we could call ourselves title contenders? It wasn't by playing defensive football.

I was sceptical about Slot initially, but with further digging I could see the reasoning behind going for him - over performing, winning the league in a traditional two horse race as the outsider, rebuilding a team to a higher level after losing your best players, going toe to toe with teams from other European leagues etc.

Other than an attacking brand of football and being a good orator I see far less to convince me that Postecoglou is the answer.

I’m very open to being convinced as I was with Slot, but so far I’m not.

 

[Flobadob]

Ange- good football, recruited well, nice guy (I don’t feel like this matters, but some of you feel it does. I’ve played out of my skin for coaches I thought were ****s, awesome coaches though and I respected them for that reason and performed well due to that), promotes youth.

It’s all great, but the likes of Nagelsmann and Enrique tick all those boxes too with the added bonus that they have proven it at a much higher level. Going for Ange while they are available is unacceptable to me for that reason, it’s a gamble we do not need to take with the current options available. People don’t just want them because they are a big name, people want them because they are a big name AND they tick all the other boxes like style of play, promoting youth etc etc, they are a good fit for our club and what we expect as fans. The only metric they can be compared to Mourinho and Conte is their status as managers, that’s where the comparisons end.

 

[Harrier]

It's one thing to win the league, but he brought a newfound excitement to that club, and some fresh new ideas that European Managers would never even think to try, like bringing in players from the J-League.

We just finished 8th, and have been playing boring, uninspired football for what, 3 years now? I think we're due for some fresh ideas.

You back those fresh ideas with some substance though! Not just a plucky gut feeling!

 

[Swalien]

If we get Ange maybe we could sell Kane and Son and he could bring Kyogo Furuhashi with him.

 

[bridgman]

Jose and Conte were both good appointments on paper who the club failed to back sufficiently. I know people will harp on about how much money was spent, but however you look at it we didn't get them what they needed and that was an absolute necessity to make it work.

It really is simple If the club know a manager needs specific pieces before they start and they fail to give him those specifics it's on the club, and if they didn't know they are idiots and it's still on the club. Thats what happens when there is no coherent long term plan in place.

Even if you argue we didn't back those managers sufficiently enough, that doesn't mean they couldn't have done better with what they had, or that it made sense to hire them in the first place. Pochettino had this squad making top 4 consistently, including an 87 point season in 2016-2017. Even when things started going bad in 2019, our squad was still built for attacking, high-pressure football. It did not make sense to hire a manager renown for defensive/negative football. The two most successful teams for the past half a decade have been Manchester City and Liverpool; what kind of football have they been playing?

Leicester proved you can win the Premier League with a vastly inferior squad without any kind of complex, long-term plan. Sure, it's not as simple this time around with Man City finishing on 90+ points regularly, but at the end of the day, it makes far more sense to pick a wildcard option like Ange Postecoglou than a crab like Brendan Rodgers or Graham Potter.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Not from my perspective. I have no issue with the ‘wait and see’ attitude if he’s any good. He might end up being good. But it’s a gamble by the club on an unproven coach and one they didn’t really need to take.

I also have issue with it being another name pushed forward by a non footballing person in Munn. We’ve castigated Levy for listening to board members over things and this is no different. We should have appointed a DOF first and let him chose his man. Then we would know the decision was based on actual football knowledge (sure paratici made wrong manager choices but it doesn’t mean a different DOF would do the same thing). Because the club don’t explain things, we don’t even know if there’s any analysis behind the guys being chosen or the rationale behind the picks. It all just feels like a complete mess because the club aren’t clear.

We did have ITK in here a couple months ago saying the names that were shortlisted were done mainly through data analysis of coaches that had overachieved and played attacking football etc... I'm pretty sure Ange was part of that original longlist. The only person that was added to the list due to recommendation was Enrique (who Paratici has pushed for).

I think it all has been a longer drawn out process than we would have all liked. Especially with how the season ended up becoming a complete car crash. However I wouldn't call the recruitment a 'mess'. It seems to me we compiled a long list, made some enquiries, cut that to a shortlist of Ange, Amorim, Enrique, Slot and had initial conversations with each of them. At this point Amorim and Slot were both frontrunners but for whatever reason Slot decided he wanted to stay at Feyonoord and signed a new contract. Reading between the lines it seems we are now waiting to give Ange a second interview but can't yet until he's finished the season with Celtic.

If you believe every bit of ITK, journo tweet, blog post etc... it will seem like a complete mess but I think it's more long and drawn out than just a mess.

Where I do agree with you is that we definitely should have sorted a DOF by now. I can only think it is due to us looking for a specific skillset if we're aiming to take a data-led approach. It needs to be sorted ASAP though as we have so much to do to reshape our squad. And as much as i'm sure work is already being done by our existing recruitment team that strategic lead needs to be in place so we can make meaningful progress ahead of next season.

 

[bridgman]

You back those fresh ideas with some substance though! Not just a plucky gut feeling!

Well, he's coached in the Australian League (to great success), the Japanese League (to great success), the Australian National Team (with relative success) and most recently, Celtic with success. At Celtic he brought in a group of japanese players, something no European manager would ever consider because the Asian Leagues are generally looked down upon as inferior. This proved to be a hugely successful point of difference.

I'm not saying Postecoglou is a guaranteed success at Tottenham, but at the very least he should be strongly preferred to the "been there, done thats" like Brendan Rodgers and co.

 

[Harrier]

@bridgman I notice you’ve joined today and are straight into vehemently championing the Postecoglou cause.

Are you part of the recently rumoured THFC social media manager acceptance mission?!