Player Watch Player Watch: Rodrigo Bentancur

[LeStat]

The difference between him and Holtby being the incredibly mature level of his play, calmness under pressure and the not insignificant fact that he's played a big role in a side that won 3 Serie A titles. The comparison pretty much stops at "the both signed in January" for me.

The Holtby comparison was in response to the notion that a signing in January having a positive impact means you're a guaranteed long-term success.

My problem with Bentancur is that he's flakey and might not be strong enough defensively to play as a DM in a Premier League team challenging for titles. Did he have a positive impact in January? Sure. Did he help us get top 4? Sure. Can he be a EPL-winning midfielder in an era with two 90+ point teams? Well, I'm not convinced yet.

As for winning Serie As, Juventus won like 8-9 in a row. I highly doubt Juventus's capacity to win that ever depended strongly on Bentancur. Things like buying their nearest rival's best player Higuain probably made a much bigger difference.

 

[djhotspur]

History lesson: did you know people were saying almost the exact same thing about a January signing from about 10 years ago? Once upon a time, we signed this guy called Lewis Holtby seemingly at a bargain price. He came in, brought some much needed energy to an increasingly drab squad and looked like he'd be a big part of our future. How did it end? Not great.

Now I'm not saying even for a second that Bentancur is the new Holtby, he's already done a lot more. However, people can sometimes overstate the quality of January signings, especially if the team manages a strong finish.

My problem with Bentancur is that he seems light and flakey, especially for a DM in the Premier League. He is playing a role that demands very strong defensive output, and I'm not convinced he can cope with the physicality of the league yet. Doing an above average job after arriving in January is one thing, doing it over a full season when opposition midfielder start figuring you out is another.

Have you actually watched bentacur play?

 

[Thenewcat]

So was Eric Dier in 2015-2016.

This isn’t making the point you think it is. Dier was outstanding as a DM in Poch’s system because he allowed the FBs to bomb forward by dropping into a back 3.

 

[Scissors&Tape]

he seems light and flakey

he's flakey

I think LeStat has croissants on the mind.

 

[Thenewcat]

The Holtby comparison was in response to the notion that a signing in January having a positive impact means you're a guaranteed long-term success.

My problem with Bentancur is that he's flakey and might not be strong enough defensively to play as a DM in a Premier League team challenging for titles. Did he have a positive impact in January? Sure. Did he help us get top 4? Sure. Can he be a EPL-winning midfielder in an era with two 90+ point teams? Well, I'm not convinced yet.

There is absolutely nothing whatsoever to suggest Bentancur is ‘flakey’. And Holtby is an absurd comparison - he started 4 games after joining on loan in January playing 90 mins in precisely none of them. Why you are bringing this up in relation to a proven international with title winning experience who came straight into the starting XI is anyone’s guess

 

[LeStat]

This isn’t making the point you think it is. Dier was outstanding as a DM in Poch’s system because he allowed the FBs to bomb forward by dropping into a back 3.

I wasn't trying to make the point you seem to think I was making. Someone said Bentancur was pivotal for helping us get top 4 therefore he starts every time. I was simply replying with a counterexample to illustrate it doesn't always work out that way long-term.

 

[LeStat]

There is absolutely nothing whatsoever to suggest Bentancur is ‘flakey’. And Holtby is an absurd comparison - he started 4 games after joining on loan in January playing 90 mins in precisely none of them. Why you are bringing this up in relation to a proven international with title winning experience who came straight into the starting XI is anyone’s guess

Clearly you have your own definition of flakey.
I do not think he can handle the physicality of being a premier league DM on a weekly basis. Just my opinion.

As for Holtby, I guess he didn't start as many games as I thought, but I still distinctly remember him filling a lot of fans with excitement.

 

[Thenewcat]

I wasn't trying to make the point you seem to think I was making. Someone said Bentancur was pivotal for helping us get top 4 therefore he starts every time. I was simply replying with a counterexample to illustrate it doesn't always work out that way long-term.

Disliking other people’s comments when they prove you wrong just makes you look like a child. Holtby is a bad comparison and this has been explained to you very clearly. As for Dier - he was excellent in a specific role, and lost form several seasons later when he had significant illness and injury, and is now proving himself a top player again playing in a different role in a different system

 

[JerryGarcia]

The Holtby comparison was in response to the notion that a signing in January having a positive impact means you're a guaranteed long-term success.

My problem with Bentancur is that he's flakey and might not be strong enough defensively to play as a DM in a Premier League team challenging for titles. Did he have a positive impact in January? Sure. Did he help us get top 4? Sure. Can he be a EPL-winning midfielder in an era with two 90+ point teams? Well, I'm not convinced yet.

As for winning Serie As, Juventus won like 8-9 in a row. I highly doubt Juventus's capacity to win that ever depended strongly on Bentancur. Things like buying their nearest rival's best player Higuain probably made a much bigger difference.

Welcome to Spurs Community LeStat, I can see where you’re coming from but don’t agree that Bentancur is flakey exactly. He does still need to prove he can do it for us over a full season but I tend to think he can and now that we have Lord Bissouma I don’t think we’ll need to worry too much about any central weakness considering we still have Hojbjerg too.

 

[Thenewcat]

Clearly you have your own definition of flakey.
I do not think he can handle the physicality of being a premier league DM on a weekly basis. Just my opinion.

As for Holtby, I guess he didn't start as many games as I thought, but I still distinctly remember him filling a lot of fans with excitement.

I don’t have my own definition of flakey, you just haven’t done anything to back up your assertion that he is. When has he looked physically deficient?

 

[EighteenEightyTwo]

The Holtby comparison was in response to the notion that a signing in January having a positive impact means you're a guaranteed long-term success.

My problem with Bentancur is that he's flakey and might not be strong enough defensively to play as a DM in a Premier League team challenging for titles. Did he have a positive impact in January? Sure. Did he help us get top 4? Sure. Can he be a EPL-winning midfielder in an era with two 90+ point teams? Well, I'm not convinced yet.

As for winning Serie As, Juventus won like 8-9 in a row. I highly doubt Juventus's capacity to win that ever depended strongly on Bentancur. Things like buying their nearest rival's best player Higuain probably made a much bigger difference.

I think his languid style and slender frame are clouding your judgement of his defensive abilities. He reads the game superbly and is strong in the tackle. Carrick and Modric weren't monsters but they were great defensive players.

 

[LeStat]

Welcome to Spurs Community LeStat, I can see where you’re coming from but don’t agree that Bentancur is flakey exactly. He does still need to prove he can do it for us over a full season but I tend to think he can and now that we have Lord Bissouma I don’t think we’ll need to worry too much about any central weakness considering we still have Hojbjerg too.

You might be right. I was simply responding with my opinion to someone in a different thread.

I would strongly disagree about not needing to worry about a central weakness however. While Bentancur may yet prove me wrong, I am very solidly convinced Hojbjerg is not good enough if we want to get real about competing with City and Liverpool.

 

[LeStat]

I think his languid style and slender frame are clouding your judgement of his defensive abilities. He reads the game superbly and is strong in the tackle. Carrick and Modric weren't monsters but they were great defensive players.

Maybe so. It's just the impression I get from watching him. I know the exact same concerns existed with Modric in his earlier days with us (with even Wenger saying he was too small for the EPL), but he adapted perfectly.
While I can't articulate it objectively, I think Modric's playstyle was better equipped to handle the EPL's physicality than Bentancur's. Just my opinion as of right now.

 

[JerryGarcia]

You might be right. I was simply responding with my opinion to someone in a different thread.

I would strongly disagree about not needing to worry about a central weakness however. While Bentancur may yet prove me wrong, I am very solidly convinced Hojbjerg is not good enough if we want to get real about competing with City and Liverpool.

We’ll have to wait and see but we’re not going to be able to make that many changes in one window and with the 5 subs next season we’ll need a large squad. The competition between Bissouma, Bentancur, Hojbjerg and Skip for two places in midfield is going to make them all up their games so I’m quite relaxed. Just think we need an Eriksen or Modric type player to give us options.

 

[Phil_2.0]

Theres a reason why Bentacur was playing lots of games for Juve when he was 19-20. He's just a really good player and has looked like a 30 year old pro thats won everything from the moment he started playing in Europe.

 

[McFlash]

Have you actually watched bentacur play?

Going by some of his comments, I'm not sure he's actually watched football, let alone Spurs! ?

 

[LeStat]

Theres a reason why Bentacur was playing lots of games for Juve when he was 19-20. He's just a really good player and has looked like a 30 year old pro thats won everything from the moment he started playing in Europe.

A really good player? Or a really good Serie A player?
Alberto Aquilani was a really good Serie A player...

I'm just saying I'm not 100% convinced yet that Bentancur has what it takes to be an EPL-challenging DM, and happy to be proven wrong. Might as well leave it at that.

 

[Thenewcat]

A really good player? Or a really good Serie A player?
Alberto Aquilani was a really good Serie A player...

I'm just saying I'm not 100% convinced yet that Bentancur has what it takes to be an EPL-challenging DM, and happy to be proven wrong. Might as well leave it at that.

Honestly you need to research your comparisons before you throw them out there. Aquilani never played 30 games in a season once before moving to the PL. Bentancur did so 3 years in a row for Juve and then made 36 last year across serie A and the PL. It’s better than comparing him to Lewis Holtby, but it’s still not a good comp at all. This is a 24 year old with 50 Uruguay caps already. He’s won 3 serie A titles with Juventus and made 200 top flight appearances (double Aquilani at the same point). The idea that he’s some unproven lightweight is just plain wrong

 

[Phil_2.0]

A really good player? Or a really good Serie A player?
Alberto Aquilani was a really good Serie A player...

I'm just saying I'm not 100% convinced yet that Bentancur has what it takes to be an EPL-challenging DM, and happy to be proven wrong. Might as well leave it at that.

He was very good for Spurs when he played in the Premier League for half a season we have that evidence. He's a good player that's just what he is. Near 200 games for Juventus between the ages of 18-23 at Juventus, won the league a few times. Won the league in Argentina before he came to Europe. In the present he's been good for Spurs.

I just think he's one of the lowest divergent players at Tottenham, you can't argue he's bad or good like some players. He's just either good or very good. I don't believe Hojbjerg is average but I could see how someone could make the argument for PEH; 'yeah he runs and is combative but his technique is below average'. With Bentacur he's just good with the ball and works hard without it.

It's just really difficult to engage with anyone who thinks he's bad. I really struggled to be bothered to write this post,

 

[LeStat]

Well what you arguing then? He isn't a good enough midfielder to win the Premier League? He's won leagues in Italy. He's not good enough to win the league in England? Liverpool won it with Jordan Henderson and Gini Wijnaldum. Matic won the league a couple times, once under Conte. They are good players but you can't tell me their much better than Bentacur.

He's just a good player. I think you'd have more success arguing that Hojbjerg is crap, try that thread.

I was stating my opinion that I remain unsure he's got the right attributes to be a DM in a title contending side in the Premier League. I never said he was "bad", that's strawman on your end. I even accepted the notion that I could've misjudged him based on his physique and loose playstyle.

I don't think winning the Serie A automatically qualifies a player as being good enough to be a DM in an EPL-winning team because these leagues have very different styles. But hey, that's just me.