PLAYER WATCH: Soldado

[brasil_spur]

Look at bonys record in 2014.Look at soldados. There is simply no comparison

You can switch Bony for pretty much every other first choice striker name in the prem right now and that statement will still be accurate.

 

[brasil_spur]

Patience isn't a Spurs fans strong point and the rate he is progressing is much slower than hoped but he is progressing. Would like to see Lennon back with him again.

What you're saying above would be great if we were talking about a 21 year old player, and frankly it is why there is still hope with Lamela.

But there should be no progressing past maybe his first 20-25 league games for us, and we are well over that number now. He's coming towards the end of his career and if he hasn't stepped up by now then i can't see when or how he will.

 

[rossdapep]

He has never been the type of striker to press and work hard though. Soldado was purely a box striker.

I was watching videos of his time at Valencia and he wouldn't stray far from the middle, in fact it's pretty much where he stays playing off the last man or making sudden movement as soon as the ball was played in.

Truth is, we simply haven't played to his strengths, the guy needs width either side of him. In his last season he had Jonas alongside him, pulling defenders away so he would find a few extra yards in the box. Then the likes of Feghouli would get crosses into the box. We are simply too narrow for him.

I agree though, its time to cut our losses as his confidence is simply gone. Send him on loan to Spain, hopefully he rediscovers his scoring touch and we can obtain a bit of money for him.

I'd like to have seen him in a side with Lennon and bale on either flank.

 

[scat1620]

Call me deluded but I still have faith in him. He is getting better. I agree he was a passenger yesterday but we needed more in midfield and Poch swapped him. Fair enough.

Patience isn't a Spurs fans strong point and the rate he is progressing is much slower than hoped but he is progressing. Would like to see Lennon back with him again.

I seem to be the only one left keeping the faith so i'll be fucking king if he does turn it round.

Your views on Soldado and Apple always make me think you're one of the strangest people on the site, TM. Don't mean that as a dig, btw, but I am usually so not on the same page as you that I'm reading a different book altogether.

 

[mpickard2087]

He basically 'did an Ade' yesterday, and was just as bad.

I don't think he even broke into a jog yesterday. It was as bad as I have ever seen from a Spurs striker.

 

[Mr Pink]

I don't think he even broke into a jog yesterday. It was as bad as I have ever seen from a Spurs striker.

The one thing I noticed from rewatching the game, and it was noticeable immediately, was the difference in work rate between Kane and Soldado. In the first minute Kane presses hard, really closing down the Swansea LB, IIRC, and Soldado was in a light jog. The ball had come from one of their CB's, who would of been Bobby's man to press, and had been passed to their LB. Just an example but it was telling immediately.

Had Bobby been pressing as aggressively as Kane we might of won the ball more higher up the pitch. This is our problem IMO, its not enough for one person to press - we need to be doing it in sync, in mini groups - like we saw against Everton.

Soldado's lack of work rate basically undermined Kane's work rate.

Frustrating but that's one of the reasons why he has to come out of the team now. The ever on going goal drought is bad enough, but a lack of work rate should make this a no brainer - to take him out of the team.

Most of us have been so patient and I know he started on Thursday night but he needs to be putting in much more than we saw yesterday to justify his inclusion - given his lack of contribution in terms of goals.

 

[mpickard2087]

The one thing I noticed from rewatching the game, and it was noticeable immediately, was the difference in work rate between Kane and Soldado. In the first minute Kane presses hard, really closing down the Swansea LB, IIRC, and Soldado was in a light jog. The ball had come from one of their CB's, who would of been Bobby's man to press, and had been passed to their LB. Just an example but it was telling immediately.

Had Bobby been pressing as aggressively as Kane we might of won the ball more higher up the pitch. This is our problem IMO, its not enough for one person to press - we need to be doing it in sync, in mini groups - like we saw against Everton.

Soldado's lack of work rate basically undermined Kane's work rate.

Frustrating but that's one of the reasons why he has to come out of the team now. The ever on going goal drought is bad enough, but a lack of work rate should make this a no brainer - to take him out of the team.

Most of us have been so patient and I know he started on Thursday night but he needs to be putting in much more than we saw yesterday to justify his inclusion - given his lack of contribution in terms of goals.

As I said in the ratings thread, Kane getting dragged out to press left our cm2's outnumbered... Hence why I said in a previous post (^^^^^^) that Soldado's laziness had knock on effects...

All I can say is that I think this is pretty par for the course from Soldado. Yesterday was about as bad as it could get in terms of his work off the ball. but its never far away from this - its usually below-par and I have said this consistently. Even against Everton it wasn't great, he had a good spell in the first half but the second he reverted back to just doing very little. And as you point out, its magnified even more by the work of Kane, someone else who is 'athletically challenged' (so to put it) but would run through brick walls for the team currently.

 

[TaoistMonkey]

Your views on Soldado and Apple always make me think you're one of the strangest people on the site, TM. Don't mean that as a dig, btw, but I am usually so not on the same page as you that I'm reading a different book altogether.

Got to look at the positives, mate.

 

[myhartlane]

How is he holding us back?

Well, to win football matches, one needs to score more goals than the opposition then you get more points.

There have been games this season where a goal or two would have won the game. Since he's our principal striker, I think that it's reasonable to expect him to score more than 3 goals in half a season. So quite clearly, his lack of goals is holding us back.

 

[millsey]

You can switch Bony for pretty much every other first choice striker name in the prem right now and that statement will still be accurate.

Look at any striker in the prem then compared to soldado stats and I think soldado will be in last place

 

[TaoistMonkey]

Well, to win football matches, one needs to score more goals than the opposition then you get more points.

There have been games this season where a goal or two would have won the game. Since he's our principal striker, I think that it's reasonable to expect him to score more than 3 goals in half a season. So quite clearly, his lack of goals is holding us back.

Many of us hoped that when Lamela and Chadli are back with Eriksen then that would get the best out of Soldado but its not happened as Lamela doesn't seem relax and Chadli is back on the bench.

I guess we have two options.

1) Get better midfielders who are actually intelligent enough (aside Eriksen) to work with an experienced Soldado.

or

2) Get a new striker to work with our inept/failing midfield.

 

[myhartlane]

Many of us hoped that when Lamela and Chadli are back with Eriksen then that would get the best out of Soldado but its not happened as Lamela doesn't seem relax and Chadli is back on the bench.

I guess we have two options.

1) Get better midfielders who are actually intelligent enough (aside Eriksen) to work with an experienced Soldado.

or

2) Get a new striker to work with our inept/failing midfield.

I'm sympathetic to your willingness to persevere with Soldado and perhaps those two options would be a solution but it suggests to me that Soldado's form is out of his hands and down primarily to the ineptitude of his team mates.

Simplistic though it may be, I feel that a top striker in a top club aspiring to be in the top places in a top league should be able to operate effectively even in less than ideal conditions.

14 goals in a season and a half is poor form.

 

[TaoistMonkey]

I'm sympathetic to your willingness to persevere with Soldado and perhaps those two options would be a solution but it suggests to me that Soldado's form is out of his hands and down primarily to the ineptitude of his team mates.

Simplistic though it may be, I feel that a top striker in a top club aspiring to be in the top places in a top league should be able to operate effectively even in less than ideal conditions.

14 goals in a season and a half is poor form.

I know he's missed a few but you could plonk him upfront for Dagenham and Redbridge and he will still be the striker he was at Valencia. As mentioned above he doesn't really create his own chances. He needs them to be created for him.

Who do you think we could sign who would get the best out of him?

 

[SpurSince57]

I know he's missed a few but you could plonk him upfront for Dagenham and Redbridge and he will still be the striker he was at Valencia. As mentioned above he doesn't really create his own chances. He needs them to be created for him.

Who do you think we could sign who would get the best out of him?

75% last season, and 65% so far this. Totally unacceptable.

 

[Coyboy]

I know he's missed a few but you could plonk him upfront for Dagenham and Redbridge and he will still be the striker he was at Valencia. As mentioned above he doesn't really create his own chances. He needs them to be created for him.

Who do you think we could sign who would get the best out of him?

Jesus?

No one is expecting him to be Zlatan or Bale and put one in the top corner out of nothing, but a) he has missed some absolute sitters ever since he joined us and b) good strikers, even pure number 9 poachers make and convert chances for themselves by movement, quickness of thought and if necessary pure strength (see RVN, Shearer or Bony to give a more recent and pertinent example). If we are playing either through the middle or from out wide, it isn’t just up to our midfielders to put the ball on a silver platter for Soldado to make him score (and in fact when that happens, he often fails to), Soldado has to make the right movement, show the right desire, intelligence and strength to get himself in those positions. That is if he isn’t willing or able to get the ball higher up the pitch and make something happen for himself which even you acknowledge isn’t possible.

All this nonsense about ‘getting the best out of him’, ‘buying the right players’ and ‘playing to his strengths’ is desperation. Does Kane need the right system, players or wind direction? No he works hard and takes a good deal of his chances when they come along.

People may find your obstinate defence of him admirable, I think what would be more deserving of praise is if you just held your hands up and said ‘Guys I called it wrong, Soldado isn’t good enough to make it here not because of the way we play, whom we play or because he hasn’t had the chances- he just didn’t live up to our expectations’.

 

[TaoistMonkey]

Jesus?

No one is expecting him to be Zlatan or Bale and put one in the top corner out of nothing, but a) he has missed some absolute sitters ever since he joined us and b) good strikers, even pure number 9 poachers make and convert chances for themselves by movement, quickness of thought and if necessary pure strength (see RVN, Shearer or Bony to give a more recent and pertinent example). If we are playing either through the middle or from out wide, it isn’t just up to our midfielders to put the ball on a silver platter for Soldado to make him score (and in fact when that happens, he often fails to), Soldado has to make the right movement, show the right desire, intelligence and strength to get himself in those positions. That is if he isn’t willing or able to get the ball higher up the pitch and make something happen for himself which even you acknowledge isn’t possible.

All this nonsense about ‘getting the best out of him’, ‘buying the right players’ and ‘playing to his strengths’ is desperation. Does Kane need the right system, players or wind direction? No he works hard and takes a good deal of his chances when they come along.

People may find your obstinate defence of him admirable, I think what would be more deserving of praise is if you just held your hands up and said ‘Guys I called it wrong, Soldado isn’t good enough to make it here not because of the way we play, whom we play or because he hasn’t had the chances- he just didn’t live up to our expectations’.

Why would I do that. I still want him to do well and I have enough confidence in his ability to perform. You don't have to agree with me

 

[Coyboy]

Why would I do that. I still want him to do well and I have enough confidence in his ability to perform. You don't have to agree with me

No one here doesn't want him to do well. I know I don't have to agree with you. Is there any other pearl of wisdom you care to offer?

If he leaves in January or in the summer without improving any, will you admit you were wrong?

 

[talkshowhost86]

I know he's missed a few but you could plonk him upfront for Dagenham and Redbridge and he will still be the striker he was at Valencia. As mentioned above he doesn't really create his own chances. He needs them to be created for him.

Who do you think we could sign who would get the best out of him?

To be fair TM he's missed a lot...and pretty easy ones as well.

And as Coyboy says, it's fine to be a poacher, but that means creating something in tight situations. Diego Costa is a poacher, but he manages to create himself space, not just stand there and wait for people to tee him up.

I really thought Soldado was going to be great for us, and I suspect he'll go back to Spain and be a success again, but he's been nothing short of terrible for Spurs and I've seen no signs in the two seasons he's been here that he's going to be able to turn it around.

Whilst he's still a Spurs player I'll continue to want him to do well, but I'm not expecting it and I hope he is replaced in January as soon as possible.

 

[Norwegian Spurs fan]

Why would I do that. I still want him to do well and I have enough confidence in his ability to perform. You don't have to agree with me

Me too I am a big Soldado fan. He was not at his best against Swansea but compared to the way some others at Spurs have conducted themselves on and off the field, it is clear to me that Soldado should be give more games to prove himself. He is a very good player and I still believe in him.

 

[TaoistMonkey]

No one here doesn't want him to do well. I know I don't have to agree with you. Is there any other pearl of wisdom you care to offer?

If he leaves in January or in the summer without improving any, will you admit you were wrong?

Admit that I was wrong? I said I believe he will come good. I'm not putting a time frame on that. You seem to think he's not doing anything else when he's not scoring when in fact he contributes a lot. I know he was bought for his goals but Kane seems to be doing well there so why get rid. He's actually one of our better passers of the ball and is an intelligent player.

What would you say if Kane came out and said he hope's Soldado isn't sold?