Ratings -VS- Derby

[stemark44]

good little match analyser on the Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/02/10/sfgder110.xml

move to the bottom of the page, and you can check all kinds of stats (even who each player passed to most?, where play was concentrated most, etc)

i take no responsibility for innacurate stats :grin:

Good article and some very good stats however I did'nt really need them as I already knew that Jenas was the MOM with a superb midfield performance which was as good as any you will see.
Some people on here just don't know football!:up:

 

[southlondonyiddo]

JJ is a class act. He's been fantastic for us ever since he joined. Covers every blade of grass for us, taking a corner 1 minute and making a last ditch tackle on the edge of our box the next.

Has never had the praise he deserves and is very under-rated by most.
The guys infront of me at Tottenham cant stand him, muppets!!

 

[sloth]

As I already informed you, I'm in a clinic. There are already positive results from my treatment. :lol: I saw that Malbranque and Keane are more influential than Berbatov. It's a pure coincidence that the result was only 0:0 before Berbatov came in. He was a lucky passanger. Don't succumb to the myth his presence can change a game. It's a mentally dangerous thought.

MOTM - Malbranque :up:

I didn't see the match so I can't comment, but I want reiterate what a good player Berbatov is.

Apparently Jenas was MOTM.

 

[SpurSince57]

Only saw the MOTD highlights. However, I would like to say that you'd be pretty pleased if a striker sidestepped a defender as niftily as Kaboul did and then whammed the ball home with such confidence.

 

[gregga]

Wow the times have given us some stinging ratings!
The first half was poor but i think they've gone a bit ott considering we won 3-0!

R Cerny 5
A Hutton 7
M Dawson (sub: Y Kaboul, 14 6)
T Huddlestone 6
P Chimbonda 4
A Lennon 4
J Jenas 5
K-P Boateng 3
S Malbranque 6
D Bent 4 (sub: D Berbatov, 58 6)
R Keane 7

Not quite sure what chimbonda and lennon did to deserve fours!

 

[JJetset]

Only saw the MOTD highlights. However, I would like to say that you'd be pretty pleased if a striker sidestepped a defender as niftily as Kaboul did and then whammed the ball home with such confidence.

I quite agree. He definitely is a footballer is our Kaboul. I watched the whole game and he played well and is a completely different style on centre back to Daws. He is more of a Carvahlio whereas Daws is the Terry of the combination.(albeit a poor realtion)
He has huge potential and playing alongside Woodgate or Ledley would be ideal for him to see how to defend correctly.
A great prospect and he has the all the right attributes to go further and more importantly he can score goals!(just don't tell Robbie Keane that as he took one off his foot mid shot in the first half and Keane went off his bollix!)

 

[guy]

yep kabouls goal was class. He really looks good in the oppostions penalty box. I think his natural skill on the ball puts him above Dawson in the pecking order. He still plays too many attempted long balls out of defence that go straight through to the opposition keeper (ala dawson last season). We need to instill the KISS principle: Keep It Simple Stupid!

Cerny-7. very solid
Hutton-7. Did the simple things well, Im happy with him so far
Dawson-?
Huddlestone-7
Chimdonda-7. better at LB than RB
Lennon-7
Jenas-7
Boateng-5. Needs to go out on loan or play 10mins at the end of games ONLY
Malbranque-7
Keane-7
Bent-5 Cmmpletely anonymous, being out for so long is his only defence

Kaboul-7
O'hara-6. Must have had a bad morning, angry boy
Berbatov-8. 8 because we won the game within 10 mins of him coming on. Brings the class every time

 

[stevenqoz]

Interesting to see peoples ratings. I do wonder the basis on which they are produced......being there, watching the full game live on tv, MOTD highlights or from the radioEek
It is clear that we struggled for the first hour. Reasons for this include the poor pitch and a Derby team with many players willing to absolutely throw their body into each challenge for as long as they could. Huddlestones superior touch and passing enabled him to be calm and untroubled even as the Derby players flew in. Jenas had a very quiet start but gradually worked his way into it. Prince got progressively worse so that it was clear that he would be replaced, Ramos resisting the urge until halftime. O'Hara came on and promptly told the Derby intimidators he would put up with no shit. Eventually lassy Savage ran out of legs and went off. O'Hara showed his class by obtaining more and more time on the ball in a game in which possession time had been at a premium. He really led the charge that brought us over the top of Derby in the end. Berbatov also came on to create time where there seemed to have been none. His angled lay-offs bamboozled a Derby side who were running out of legs. I would like to know how many seconds Keane held the ball in the whole game.....it would not be more than 30 seconds. Weighed against this was his willingness to apparently chase opponents in possession with no hope of ever getting there. An interesting angle on work rate.
Giles Barnes in spite of his game changing miss looked a good player and one we might continue to pursue when Derby take the lift down a floor.

 

[Berbati]

I didn't see the match so I can't comment, but I want reiterate what a good player Berbatov is.

Apparently Jenas was MOTM.

Well, that game was very instructive about Berbatov's influence on the team. The amount of his goals and assists (10 + 10 in the league) which is impressive in itself (compared to Ronaldo 19 + 2 and Adebayor 18 + 2, both scoring more from penaties), is only half of the truth. The other half of the truth is that he makes the other players around him better by bringing them into the game, i.e., by holdng up the ball, freeing spaces, passing the ball, controlling the tempo etc. On Sunday he made no magic but only 5 min after he came in Spurs were a completely different team. Keane, Lennon, Jenas, Malbranque started to play better. That side of his influence often remains hidden as it involves no (noticable) magic.

 

[MattWilliams]

Giles Barnes oozes class. I'd be a little dissapointed if we weren't at least looking at him. But in all honesty, I imagine every team is looking at him. He is a class above everyone else in the Derby squad, so comfortable on the ball even in a team that is constantly in dissarray.

 

[DC_Boy]

Well, that game was very instructive about Berbatov's influence on the team. The amount of his goals and assists (10 + 10 in the league) which is impressive in itself (compared to Ronaldo 19 + 2 and Adebayor 18 + 2, both scoring more from penaties), is only half of the truth. The other half of the truth is that he makes the other players around him better by bringing them into the game, i.e., by holdng up the ball, freeing spaces, passing the ball, controlling the tempo etc. On Sunday he made no magic but only 5 min after he came in Spurs were a completely different team. Keane, Lennon, Jenas, Malbranque started to play better. That side of his influence often remains hidden as it involves no (noticable) magic.

yep Berbati - 15 goals & 15 assists now for the man - plus vital roles in at least 7 other goals - but as you imply he is also a fulcrum for the play - he is our only true target man - but unlike many a target man he has sublime skill as well as strength and aerial ability - JJ (8) was MOTM (and sooo many people who slated him for soooo long - well what do they think of themselves?) but once again the best player on the pitch, the best player of the season, was Berbs (8).

JJ is probably worth £15m tops, Berbs though older is probably worth £25m - there's a reason for that.

I thought O'Hara (8) did well (incidentally I've seen the whole game plus football first plus MOTD) and redrew the fouling balance as before it was mainly Derby doing the kicking - though how he didn't get booked who knows -

but how other 'ginger nuts' like Scholes & Sidwell have remained on the field after some of the kickings they've given out - well - maybe it's positive discrimination for a persecuted minority in a crazy PC ref kinda way

Hudd on 4 yellow cards would have been aware of missing the final -

I wouldn't have played either Hudd or Daws for that reason - but hey JR knows much much more than me and overall his tactic of playing a pretty strong team paid off - it is a crying shame for Daws though such a great servant and now to miss the final

Steed was tremendous as was Keane in their different ways 8 for SM - 7.5 for RK-

and Hutton (7) looks so calm - I thought he was some kind of firebrand but despite all the Derby fouls he never looked near a yellow let alone a red - what a great buy he looks -

and Chimbonda (7) is smiling not sulking - I didn't think he could play LB but hey he can - I wonder if he will in the final though?

spurs were playing 2 games on Sat - the one at Pride Park and the one at Wembley - overall we performed really well with that in mind - although so sad about Daws

 

[sloth]

Well, that game was very instructive about Berbatov's influence on the team. The amount of his goals and assists (10 + 10 in the league) which is impressive in itself (compared to Ronaldo 19 + 2 and Adebayor 18 + 2, both scoring more from penaties), is only half of the truth. The other half of the truth is that he makes the other players around him better by bringing them into the game, i.e., by holdng up the ball, freeing spaces, passing the ball, controlling the tempo etc. On Sunday he made no magic but only 5 min after he came in Spurs were a completely different team. Keane, Lennon, Jenas, Malbranque started to play better. That side of his influence often remains hidden as it involves no (noticable) magic.

I completely agree with you there and it's another facet in what makes him such a special player.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Giles Barnes oozes class. I'd be a little dissapointed if we weren't at least looking at him. But in all honesty, I imagine every team is looking at him. He is a class above everyone else in the Derby squad, so comfortable on the ball even in a team that is constantly in dissarray.

The Derby fans want him dropped. They don't like him at all and say he is a lazy fuck who loves himself and gives it away too much by trying to do something stupid by himself rather than playing for the team. The comment was 'if someone gave us £5m for him I would drive him to the airport'. Talented, but not talented enough for him to step into our side.

As for those stats in the Telegraph, they tell me two things straight away. Dawson was playing way too deep...again. If the defence is that deep it invites pressure. Bent was playing far too deep as well. His average position was far deeper than Keane and Lennon and was fairly similar to JJ. I would have expected him to be the furthest forward where he can get himself involved at the sharp end. I know he isn't fit, but I think if he wants to get on the score sheet regularly he needs to play far higher.

 

[Bulletspur]

I saw the match on a stream ...Derby were bad towards the end ,felt sorry for them .

Why?

There must be more to Boateng .He must be nervous or some way debilitated...rarely does anything right . Stick him in reserves for a month or two see if he calms down ...3 (for GL's sake) Loathed JR's decision to sub him for Lennon in the recent Utd draw ,may have cost us dear in that game .

No sign of Benty (getting slightly worried now) , subbed and we started to look good...5

Pleased for Kaboul , good on him after his baptism by fire at the season's start...had a great match ..8

Before Berbs came on Aaron was our only attacking hope which is scary ( Berbati , your earlier sarcastic post was nauseating I'm starting to find you offensive) so Lennon ..8

Good win after Derby collapsed late on ,but worry about our lack of creativity in midfield

Could it be because Jenas was prevented from going forward as he had to cover for a very ineffective Boateng?

 

[Bulletspur]

I didn't see the match so I can't comment, but I want reiterate what a good player Berbatov is.

Apparently Jenas was MOTM.

Are you a Spurs or Berbatov supporter? :shrug:
The guy is good but you dont have to get so anal about, especially as you didnt see him perform in this match.

 

[sloth]

Are you a Spurs or Berbatov supporter? :shrug:
The guy is good but you dont have to get so anal about, especially as you didnt see him perform in this match.

LOL, oh the irony... that comment directed at me is the equivalent of a Marlon Harewood shot Eek

A word of advice, make sure you know your topic before you post:up:

Click Here or Here

 

[tRiKS]

a definite case of after the lord mayors show. A total come down of a game after the recent tough fixtues were had... i expected us to be a bit casual and wasn't suprised that we seemed to be in self preseravtion mode. I thnk a game you win but still see enough to give your team a real dressing down on Monday will help us get back up for Thursday. I'd rather we were complacent agsint Derby that agaisnt Prague and i'm sure now we won't be.

Shame for Bent that he gets his first start in a team that was reluctant to get into top gear so i wouldn't mark him too harshly. We kept the ball well and they did look leg tired in the end... i'd be confident of nicking the game anyway but Berbatov's inclusion did have an effect on both sets of players. Derby made a collective "oh no not him" and we went "oh good him"... he didn't actually do a great deal though.

 

[SpurSince57]

The Derby fans want him dropped. They don't like him at all and say he is a lazy fuck who loves himself and gives it away too much by trying to do something stupid by himself rather than playing for the team. The comment was 'if someone gave us £5m for him I would drive him to the airport'. Talented, but not talented enough for him to step into our side.

As for those stats in the Telegraph, they tell me two things straight away. Dawson was playing way too deep...again. If the defence is that deep it invites pressure. Bent was playing far too deep as well. His average position was far deeper than Keane and Lennon and was fairly similar to JJ. I would have expected him to be the furthest forward where he can get himself involved at the sharp end. I know he isn't fit, but I think if he wants to get on the score sheet regularly he needs to play far higher.

The high defensive line Ramos was supposed to have introduced is largely illusory. Fact is, unless King is playing we don't have a CB with the pace to run down and intercept opposing players if they pierce the line, and as we're still unable to consistently dominate in midfield that's going to happen, as it happened to Arsenal in the CC games. Kaboul is quicker than Dawson and Huddlestone, but he's still no speed merchant, and Woodgate has never struck me as being one either.

If we're expecting Bent to play a Berbatov-type role it simply isn't going to happen.

 

[yanno]

The high defensive line Ramos was supposed to have introduced is largely illusory. Fact is, unless King is playing we don't have a CB with the pace to run down and intercept opposing players if they pierce the line, and as we're still unable to consistently dominate in midfield that's going to happen, as it happened to Arsenal in the CC games. Kaboul is quicker than Dawson and Huddlestone, but he's still no speed merchant, and Woodgate has never struck me as being one either.

If we're expecting Bent to play a Berbatov-type role it simply isn't going to happen.

I agree about our brand new high defensive line being a bit of a myth. Indeed, with those tortoises Daws and the Hud as CBs, a high defensive line would have been potentially suicidal.

The Bent situation is complicated, as you suggest. I'm not convinced Bent and Keano can play together, but the only way it would work is if Keano drops deeper into the linking/fulcrum (Berba) role.

Bent has to play on the shoulder of their CBs - he's not skilful or creative enough to play the linking role. So, playing Bent up top, if we also play the Hud at CB it improves our chances of getting him the good early service he needs. However, our CMs (assuming Big Tom is now a CB) are not great at looking up and playing the through ball, and that will inevitably limit Bent's service.

Fundamentally, playing Bent with Berba should work - indeed, Berba is more likely to put Bent in than any of our CMs. But Bent & Keano would need a lot of work on the training ground to help the team adapt, and since I hope Berba is going to stay fit for the rest of the season, I suspect Juande will have higher priorities in training.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I said exactly the same thing about Bent/Keane in the match thread before the game. In fact this is what I posted:

But Bent won't create chances for Keane like Berbaov does. Which means Keane playing the deeper role. Which invariably means him running around flapping and getting in the way.

It really does make you wonder why Bent was ever considered. He doesn't fit in with our (or anybody else's) style of play if we want to play proper passing football. He is only relevant in a 451 type style where he will give you an Andy Johnson type option. Anywhere else he is moribund. I really would love to know the thought process(s) and personnel involved with the purchase of Bent for such a huge amount. For a player with poor technique and intelligence it was really a strange decision. By who though ???