Remember this guy...?

[Spurs_Bear]

Did someone on the forums disagree with you? How dare they not share your opinion?

Do you think think we're not worse off without VdV then?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

What's the point in pining over a player that used to be here but has gone and won't be coming back. It's pointless.

We all loved Rafa, he's a top class player but we were offered good money and even though he probably would have stayed, at his age, with the niggly injuries he was getting and with his wife being in Germany, he always wanted to go back.

It's time to think ahead and be positive about what we have now and who we could end up signing in the future.

This. Right here. Misses the entire point of the original point in question.

Saying we are 'MUCH WORSE OFF WITHOUT RAFA' is not pining for him or wishing he was even here, it's just stating the obvious.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Some on here remind me of the silly girls way back when - who cried their eyes out when The Bay City Rollers split up!

And some remind me of that bloke that you laugh and point at in the pub as he thinks he knows how football works...

 

[mattyspurs]

Just for clarity, this is fuck all to do with pining for anyone, or getting over anything. The cold hard facts are that we are quite clearly, quite obviously, MUCH worse off without VdV. Anyone with half a braincell can work that out. It's just the typical modern day footballer who cant think back longer than their cock when forming an opinion on this. Some of you fucks even waited until we lucked a win at Old Trafford to come back into this thread and mark the original post of 'WE ARE MUCH WORSE OFF WITHOUT RAFA' as a disagree, as if you were making some kind of point.

This is a fucking internet forum, I couldn't give a flying fuck what ratings people want to give, but disagreeing with something so fucking obvious is much more concerning especially when it appears that some people form their opinions on watching the previous 90 minutes of fucking football.

Wise up.

Do we have that "winning the internet" rating yet?

 

[BillyWhizz]

Woh what side of the bed did Spurs_Bear wake up on today?

I won't give you a disagree rating but I'd like to know how you come to the conclusion that we are MUCH worse off without VDV? Goals scored? Points won? League position? It's a bit early to say I think. Of course he is a loss to the team but I actually agree with someone's earlier post that we miss Ade as much if not more. Rafa and Defoe would be playing together right now (and did during first 2 games of season) but I don't remember any games where they played well together (Hearts away maybe) they never seemed to be on the same wavelength so I don't think it's that clear cut to say this.

As as team we look much more organised and solid, and we have actually conceded the LEAST amount of shots in the league so far! That's an improvement right there. So are we really MUCH worse off?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Woh what side of the bed did Spurs_Bear wake up on today?

I won't give you a disagree rating but I'd like to know how you come to the conclusion that we are MUCH worse off without VDV? Goals scored? Points won? League position? It's a bit early to say I think. Of course he is a loss to the team but I actually agree with someone's earlier post that we miss Ade as much if not more. Rafa and Defoe would be playing together right now (and did during first 2 games of season) but I don't remember any games where they played well together (Hearts away maybe) they never seemed to be on the same wavelength so I don't think it's that clear cut to say this.

As as team we look much more organised and solid, and we have actually conceded the LEAST amount of shots in the league so far! That's an improvement right there. So are we really MUCH worse off?

Go nuts mate, couldn't give a fuck about the ratings.

If you watched our game last night, and the game against Chelsea, where we showed zero organisation, zero fight, zero heart, pretty much zero of everything, I think it's pretty clear we are worse off without a world class player like VdV.

Christ, honestly this is really concerning. It's pretty basic stuff.

We know longer have a great player in our squad = we are much worse off.

I'm sure that's the formula for how things work.

 

[mattyspurs]

Go nuts mate, couldn't give a fuck about the ratings.

If you watched our game last night, and the game against Chelsea, where we showed zero organisation, zero fight, zero heart, pretty much zero of everything, I think it's pretty clear we are worse off without a world class player like VdV.

Christ, honestly this is really concerning. It's pretty basic stuff.

We know longer have a great player in our squad = we are much worse off.

I'm sure that's the formula for how things work.

You all need to listen to Bear here.

He may be a prize tool, but he knows his stuff on this debate

 

[SteveH]

Just for clarity, this is fuck all to do with pining for anyone, or getting over anything. The cold hard facts are that we are quite clearly, quite obviously, MUCH worse off without VdV. Anyone with half a braincell can work that out. It's just the typical modern day footballer who cant think back longer than their cock when forming an opinion on this. Some of you fucks even waited until we lucked a win at Old Trafford to come back into this thread and mark the original post of 'WE ARE MUCH WORSE OFF WITHOUT RAFA' as a disagree, as if you were making some kind of point.

This is a fucking internet forum, I couldn't give a flying fuck what ratings people want to give, but disagreeing with something so fucking obvious is much more concerning especially when it appears that some people form their opinions on watching the previous 90 minutes of fucking football.

Wise up.

Not a big Vdv fan Spurs_Bear, sorry.

I found him very frustrating to watch throughout his time at Hamburg, Real and Spurs due to his dia lack of athleticism and his sad vulnerability to injury. He did though surprise me and undoubtedly had renaissance at Spurs as he was very poor at Real, but played well when fit in our setup.

We are though much worse without 'a fit' Rafa?
Yes.
But also Kabule, BAE, Parker, Ade and a certain Mr Modric. Also laterly Bale and Dembele.

BUT we are though as you correctly say - all allowed our two penneth.

 

[mattyspurs]

But Steve, he was never an Athletic type of player. He plays with Skill, awareness, vision, touch, movement. All things that a world class player needs.

All of these attributes that we are currently missing in our team.

Add to that his desire, heart and winning mentality, it takes a lot of money to buy a player with all of that, and for all of the money in the world you can't guarentee tat you are gonna get someone either.

Shoot me down , but I think we miss him more than Luka!!

World class players don't come around very often, and I wish we had gone all out to keep him, as I just think he may well have stayed.

 

[aRTy]

I'd much rather have 60 mins out of Rafa and bring on someone like Siggy near the end compared to what we've been lacking so far this season.

 

[SteveH]

But Steve, he was never an Athletic type of player. He plays with Skill, awareness, vision, touch, movement. All things that a world class player needs.

All of these attributes that we are currently missing in our team.

Add to that his desire, heart and winning mentality, it takes a lot of money to buy a player with all of that, and for all of the money in the world you can't guarentee tat you are gonna get someone either.

Shoot me down , but I think we miss him more than Luka!!

World class players don't come around very often, and I wish we had gone all out to keep him, as I just think he may well have stayed.

Its your opinion, you go for it.

Luka is unique (it took me about two years to see it mind) and so not needed in the current Real 1st team squad.
I can see him being the Alonso replacement long term though.

Rafa had his best spell with Spurs since his early day with Ajax and Hamburg (scored one of my favourite goals against Arsenal by the by).

I'm not Rafa groupie though.

But I will defend your right to be one

 

[BillyWhizz]

Go nuts mate, couldn't give a fuck about the ratings.

If you watched our game last night, and the game against Chelsea, where we showed zero organisation, zero fight, zero heart, pretty much zero of everything, I think it's pretty clear we are worse off without a world class player like VdV.

Christ, honestly this is really concerning. It's pretty basic stuff.

We know longer have a great player in our squad = we are much worse off.

I'm sure that's the formula for how things work.

As I just said, won't rate you. And yeah I watched those games it seems the players don't care much about the Europa and that's a shame but that's not because Rafa wasn't playing. Zero fight against Chelsea? Started the game badly but we came from behind in the second half, despite zero fight and zero heart. Impressive.

I've watched us play with VDV in the side and get raped, what's your point here?

I may be being pedantic because it's the MUCH part of your opinion I disagree with, but we did actually buy other players we're not in the situation Liverpool are where they just didn't sign anyone else.

It's too simplistic to just say "good player leaves = team is much worse", he's not Ronaldo. We finished 4th a few seasons ago, bought Rafa and then finished 5th. See? There's more to it than that.
So much else has gone on this season. Factor in a new management team, about 15 player personel changes (ins and outs) and a change in style. No Adebayor or Parker yet. I could go on. Are Arsenal much worse off without RVP? They are doing pretty much the same so again it's not clear, because like us they made changes elsewhere as well. We lost a very good player but are playing a different system which gives us benefits in other areas so for me it's pretty much evened out and I only hear people complain about Rafa leaving after unsatisfactory results. We've had some good ones so far as well.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Not a big Vdv fan Spurs_Bear, sorry.

I found him very frustrating to watch throughout his time at Hamburg, Real and Spurs due to his dia lack of athleticism and his sad vulnerability to injury. He did though surprise me and undoubtedly had renaissance at Spurs as he was very poor at Real, but played well when fit in our setup.

We are though much worse without 'a fit' Rafa?
Yes.
But also Kabule, BAE, Parker, Ade and a certain Mr Modric. Also laterly Bale and Dembele.

BUT we are though as you correctly say - all allowed our two penneth.

Each to their own old chap, but I cant get on board with ANY of that really. For a player to consistently cover the most ground in a team, to then be accused of a lack of athleticism, words fail me.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

As I just said, won't rate you. And yeah I watched those games it seems the players don't care much about the Europa and that's a shame but that's not because Rafa wasn't playing. Zero fight against Chelsea? Started the game badly but we came from behind in the second half, despite zero fight and zero heart. Impressive.

I've watched us play with VDV in the side and get raped, what's your point here?

I may be being pedantic because it's the MUCH part of your opinion I disagree with, but we did actually buy other players we're not in the situation Liverpool are where they just didn't sign anyone else.

It's too simplistic to just say "good player leaves = team is much worse", he's not Ronaldo. We finished 4th a few seasons ago, bought Rafa and then finished 5th. See? There's more to it than that.
So much else has gone on this season. Factor in a new management team, about 15 player personel changes (ins and outs) and a change in style. No Adebayor or Parker yet. I could go on. Are Arsenal much worse off without RVP? They are doing pretty much the same so again it's not clear, because like us they made changes elsewhere as well. We lost a very good player but are playing a different system which gives us benefits in other areas so for me it's pretty much evened out and I only hear people complain about Rafa leaving after unsatisfactory results. We've had some good ones so far as well.

Right lets break this down...

We came out for approximately 8 minutes of the second half against Chelsea, then went again. I'll stick to Zero fight/heart rather than go into fractions on that one.

In the season after we finished 4th, Rafa scored 13 and had countless assists, where would we have been without him is the real question here.

If you really need me to answer the question about the Goons being worse off without RVP then it's a pretty pointless argument mate.

One more question, Man United aside, which was a great result, which other results would you put in the 'good' column?

Reading
QPR
Villa

Games that we won, would you have expected anything else????

 

[SteveH]

Each to their own old chap, but I cant get on board with ANY of that really. For a player to consistently cover the most ground in a team, to then be accused of a lack of athleticism, words fail me.

He definitely signed up to the "go out there and run about a bit" club.
He was always a tryer, I can't deny that.

His recurring health problems were not his fault, it was a floor (don't think 'floor' is the right word) in his makeup. This stopped him from IMHO, reaching the very very top. Without this 'floor'? he would still be playing at a Real or other top CL club. Spurs mind would never had seen him and especially for the great price we got him for. It was around £7m sold for £10m'ish that Levy.......

 

[dagraham]

Each to their own old chap, but I cant get on board with ANY of that really. For a player to consistently cover the most ground in a team, to then be accused of a lack of athleticism, words fail me.

It's a sypmtom of the modern game unfortunately. Anyone who's not quick has a "lack of athletism" and anyone who is quick has there shortcomings overlooked. Hence the overhyping of Walker

 

[Misfit]

As was said by many during the last few days of the window, selling Rafa without getting a replacement in would prove to be very costly. We've left ourselves incredibly light as a result. Dembele and someone else was needed. Who knows the reasons but I felt at the time that selling Rafa was pretty much the only downside to an otherwise excellent window. Our squad with Rafa in it would be so much stronger, especially when taking into account the slight change in tactics/formation.

Let's hope it isn't too terminal or we're back to the 05-07 seasons of possesion but ultimately a weaker midfield (in terms of creativity) compared to the other clubs going for top 4, and midfield is where games are won and lost.

Thinking a good signing in January might be a necessity at the moment. Still think we're good for top 6 though, whih is where I thought wed end up anyway.

 

[SteveH]

As was said by many during the last few days of the window, selling Rafa without getting a replacement in would prove to be very costly. We've left ourselves incredibly light as a result. Dembele and someone else was needed. Who knows the reasons but I felt at the time that selling Rafa was pretty much the only downside to an otherwise excellent window. Our squad with Rafa in it would be so much stronger, especially when taking into account the slight change in tactics/formation.

Let's hope it isn't too terminal or we're back to the 05-07 seasons of possesion but ultimately a weaker midfield (in terms of creativity) compared to the other clubs going for top 4, and midfield is where games are won and lost.

Thinking a good signing in January might be a necessity at the moment. Still think we're good for top 6 though, which is where I thought wed end up anyway.

I truly believe 'they' saw Sigi as a replacement for Rafa. Sadly it does not at present look likely. Expected more fro Sig, but lets give the lad time he still could come good.

I strongly believe this squad time need time, the longer they play together the better they will get.
Weaker and stronger describe the two sides of just the last season. First 5 months of the season 'strong', last half 'weak'.

Top 6 this season is about right for me also.

 

[BillyWhizz]

Right lets break this down...

We came out for approximately 8 minutes of the second half against Chelsea, then went again. I'll stick to Zero fight/heart rather than go into fractions on that one.

In the season after we finished 4th, Rafa scored 13 and had countless assists, where would we have been without him is the real question here.

If you really need me to answer the question about the Goons being worse off without RVP then it's a pretty pointless argument mate.

One more question, Man United aside, which was a great result, which other results would you put in the 'good' column?

Reading
QPR
Villa

Games that we won, would you have expected anything else????

Well at least you tried to explain your reasoning this time which is all I really asked the first time around. What you say still doesn't convince me that we are much worse off though.

We didn't loose the Chelsea game because of a lack of fight or heart, we lost because they were better than us that day and we had a shit load of people missing.

Thank you for proving my point regarding finishing 5th with VDV. It's not as simple as just that is it. And I thought it was 16 he scored wasn't it?

What I meant by Arsenal is they had a crap start to their season last year with RVP and they are doing similar this year without him. Maybe I didn't make it obvious enough but your basing your arugment on the season so far which is what I did.

Performances and results have been inconsistent this season I haven't tried to say one way or the other, but we are a team in transition so it's to be expected. We didn't get started last season until Ade and Parker were in the side and we've done just as well this season without them, and VDV. If we add up the points from the same games this season and last (we beat all 3 relegated teams away last season so can count as the Reading game) we have 14 points, and after the same amount of games were also 5th.

Now, must get back to work!

 

[Spurs_Bear]

You all need to listen to Bear here.

He may be a prize tool, but he knows his stuff on this debate

Ha! You ****! How did I miss this the first time??



Nice work mate.