Spurs Youth Thread 20/21

[IGSpur]

I definitely believe that Cirkin is more than ready to be regularly playing EL football this season, and as the 2nd best FB I've seen in the academy, if he gets his chance we could be onto a top player and I reckon he will be playing for England if Ireland don't promise him game time first

Following from this and seeing the England squad announced, I actually forgot how bad England's dearth at LB was due to poor planning.

They have Dasilva who I still think is a talent but didn't get the opportunity. I think he could do well there and I think if he did a big club would then buy him. I think Henry could also do a job there. I believe Sessegnon was the one they were hoping would play there but he then got moved forward and now noone really knows where his strength is and Saka could also play there but is actually a winger.

I think England should have chosen one of Dasilva, Henry or Saka for balance to see how they would have got on. I don't think any would have let us down.

But in my opinion Cirkin is England's most talented or potentially best LB after Chilwell., especially with Dasilva appearing to have stagnated due to Chelsea not giving him chances.

If Cirkin is trusted this year in the EL, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in contention for the Euros next year. But this is also dependent on how we develop Sessegnon, as chances are one will block the other.

 

[C0YS]

It's also how Harry Kane broke through. It's just a shame their aren't more youngsters that are worth giving a shot to. Like just imagine if JO, ME and KWP were 20/21 going into this season, I'd imagine they'd have had a much more successful transition to the first team.

I think our current set of youngsters is one of the strongest in a long time Parrott, Skipp, White, Cirkin, Bennett, Fagen-Walcott, Jack Roles and Tanganga if you still count him.

Like, Parrott and Skipp are as hyped as you can be at their ages, ok both are on loan, but Cirkin and White again, very well considered.

Onomah KWP and Edwards or Parrott, Skipp, Cirkin and White. I think I actually prefer the later group. OK not as exciting as the first one but I'm very excited about Parrott and Skipp and both of those players are more part of the first team at a younger age than any of the former three.

 

[C0YS]

Following from this and seeing the England squad announced, I actually forgot how bad England's dearth at LB was due to poor planning.

They have Dasilva who I still think is a talent but didn't get the opportunity. I think he could do well there and I think if he did a big club would then buy him. I think Henry could also do a job there. I believe Sessegnon was the one they were hoping would play there but he then got moved forward and now noone really knows where his strength is and Saka could also play there but is actually a winger.

I think England should have chosen one of Dasilva, Henry or Saka for balance to see how they would have got on. I don't think any would have let us down.

But in my opinion Cirkin is England's most talented or potentially best LB after Chilwell., especially with Dasilva appearing to have stagnated due to Chelsea not giving him chances.

If Cirkin is trusted this year in the EL, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in contention for the Euros next year. But this is also dependent on how we develop Sessegnon, as chances are one will block the other.

I disagree, we already give caps too cheaply at international level. Make players work hard and earn it. I get this bedding in period, invite them to train with the team if thats the case. But a call up needs to be something earned.

Erm, yes there are issues at left back but you still have your bertrands, Cresswells etc sitting about. People like Bryan maybe could have been given the chance too.

I doubt Cirkin will do enough for the Euros this year, he'd really have to break through spectacularly to do so. Stranger things have happened though.

 

[Montalbano]

Parrott bagged his first preseason goal today.

 

[allpaths]

I think our current set of youngsters is one of the strongest in a long time Parrott, Skipp, White, Cirkin, Bennett, Fagen-Walcott, Jack Roles and Tanganga if you still count him.

Like, Parrott and Skipp are as hyped as you can be at their ages, ok both are on loan, but Cirkin and White again, very well considered.

Onomah KWP and Edwards or Parrott, Skipp, Cirkin and White. I think I actually prefer the later group. OK not as exciting as the first one but I'm very excited about Parrott and Skipp and both of those players are more part of the first team at a younger age than any of the former three.

I'm right there with u. But they're all very young and I'm skeptical how much game time they'll get. If they were a little bit older and returning from a season on loan then I'd be very optimistic.

 

[JimmyG2]

I'm right there with u. But they're all very young and I'm skeptical how much game time they'll get. If they were a little bit older and returning from a season on loan then I'd be very optimistic.

If they're good enough, they're old enough.
(Old Chinese Proverb)

 

[IGSpur]

I disagree, we already give caps too cheaply at international level. Make players work hard and earn it. I get this bedding in period, invite them to train with the team if thats the case. But a call up needs to be something earned.

Erm, yes there are issues at left back but you still have your bertrands, Cresswells etc sitting about. People like Bryan maybe could have been given the chance too.

I doubt Cirkin will do enough for the Euros this year, he'd really have to break through spectacularly to do so. Stranger things have happened though.

I forgot about Cresswell and Bertrand but even still I don't really see what the issue is. Kalvin Phillips has been called up due to a lack of DMs and a great season in the Championship. Henry has a had a really good season, rewarding him, when no other LBs have stood out in the PL is hardly giving out a cheap cap and no worse than the others. Choosing Bertrand and Cresswell would just be rewarding them by virtue of playing in a PL team and be a cheap reward anyway.

I also doubt Cirkin will get a call up, not least because I don't actually think he will play much, being an academy player. But if he is fancied and plays a whole season, if Shaw and the others aren't performing I believe he has the ability to prove himself. Harry Winks got a cap in his first season of playing and Cirkin is a better LB than Harry Winks a CM imo. The only thing working against him is there aren't really any friendlies anymore

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

I forgot about Cresswell and Bertrand but even still I don't really see what the issue is. Kalvin Phillips has been called up due to a lack of DMs and a great season in the Championship. Henry has a had a really good season, rewarding him, when no other LBs have stood out in the PL is hardly giving out a cheap cap and no worse than the others. Choosing Bertrand and Cresswell would just be rewarding them by virtue of playing in a PL team and be a cheap reward anyway.

I also doubt Cirkin will get a call up, not least because I don't actually think he will play much, being an academy player. But if he is fancied and plays a whole season, if Shaw and the others aren't performing I believe he has the ability to prove himself. Harry Winks got a cap in his first season of playing and Cirkin is a better LB than Harry Winks a CM imo. The only thing working against him is there aren't really any friendlies anymore

Is there no u21 squad?

 

[IGSpur]

Is there no u21 squad?

There will be one tomorrow.

Will be interesting to see who's in that.

 

[C0YS]

I forgot about Cresswell and Bertrand but even still I don't really see what the issue is. Kalvin Phillips has been called up due to a lack of DMs and a great season in the Championship. Henry has a had a really good season, rewarding him, when no other LBs have stood out in the PL is hardly giving out a cheap cap and no worse than the others. Choosing Bertrand and Cresswell would just be rewarding them by virtue of playing in a PL team and be a cheap reward anyway.

I also doubt Cirkin will get a call up, not least because I don't actually think he will play much, being an academy player. But if he is fancied and plays a whole season, if Shaw and the others aren't performing I believe he has the ability to prove himself. Harry Winks got a cap in his first season of playing and Cirkin is a better LB than Harry Winks a CM imo. The only thing working against him is there aren't really any friendlies anymore

I'm not against it either, as long as it's on merit. If you play in a PL team it obviously carries a lot more weight than doing it in the Championship as it's a huge step up and more of a guarantee of quality.

Kalvin Phillips will at least be playing top flight football, but even that I felt was more because of Englands lack of depth in the DM position. I think the call up is also too early. With the three options you mentioned it's not that I'm against it on principle. it's just I don't believe it's the national teams place to develop talent.

Henry had a good season, sure, but having a good season in the chanmpionship is no better than having a pretty poor one in the PL. The change in level is considerable. Generally speaking past players called up based on their performances in the championship have not done particularly well. We are talking about Bothroyd, Nugent and even Zaha who was never called up again. I also feel putting players too quickly into the national team can hinder development not improve it.

Also, the idea hat Cirkin is a better left back than Winks a CM is frankly absurd. At the moment Cirkin has not shown anything at the required level to demonstrate he is ready for a call up. He might have a higher ceiling, and have a better skillset but neither of these things guarantee even being a footballer at a professional level. If can establish himself at fullback great, but in a year for a 18 year old it's going to be very hard work. Winks also didn't get his first cap in his first season, he got in his second. But in any case. Really incomparable situations.

Cirkin should work on developing and trying to earn more game time. Lets not hype the kid up too much.

 

[Anuth]

 

[Blake Griffin]

There will be one tomorrow.

Will be interesting to see who's in that.

austin, skipp and sessegnon likely. tanganga maybe if he's fit? not sure what's been going on with him lately.

edwards should be in if they've been paying attention, would be good to see him back playing for england again.

 

[Montalbano]

Eyoma played 66 minutes and scored a goal today as Lincoln City kept a clean sheet against S****horpe.
The loanees were banging them in today

 

[Anuth]

austin, skipp and sessegnon likely. tanganga maybe if he's fit? not sure what's been going on with him lately.

edwards should be in if they've been paying attention, would be good to see him back playing for england again.

Maybe Scarlett, Devine, Hackett with U17? @IGSpur

 

[IGSpur]

Also, the idea hat Cirkin is a better left back than Winks a CM is frankly absurd. At the moment Cirkin has not shown anything at the required level to demonstrate he is ready for a call up. He might have a higher ceiling, and have a better skillset but neither of these things guarantee even being a footballer at a professional level. If can establish himself at fullback great, but in a year for a 18 year old it's going to be very hard work. Winks also didn't get his first cap in his first season, he got in his second. But in any case. Really incomparable situations.

I meant at the same age, which obviously was not clear. Cirkin has looked a lot better player at u18s football than Winks did, but Winks didn't really start showing that he was first team ready until his first year in the u21s iirc, and then made his debut at 21. Your right it was really early on in his 2nd season.

Good to see Donley bagging goals early on. Don't see him getting anymore opportunities at u18 level, with Scarlett, Whittaker, and Asante hopefully staying fit, but promising especially as I just mentioned him and Scarlett in a previous post.

Maybe Scarlett, Devine, Hackett with U17? @IGSpur

Apparently there are no other age groups games until October or November annoyingly.

When they eventually do come around, ye I anticipate those 3 will definitely be in it and maybe see how the other start the new season if they get themselves back in.

Really looking forward to the international age group games coming back, as there is so much talent in all of the age groups atm.

I think Bellingham will be in the u21s tomorrow. He's been playing well in Dortmund's preseason so fair enough he should skip some age groups

 

[SpursSince1980]

Following from this and seeing the England squad announced, I actually forgot how bad England's dearth at LB was due to poor planning.

They have Dasilva who I still think is a talent but didn't get the opportunity. I think he could do well there and I think if he did a big club would then buy him. I think Henry could also do a job there. I believe Sessegnon was the one they were hoping would play there but he then got moved forward and now noone really knows where his strength is and Saka could also play there but is actually a winger.

I think England should have chosen one of Dasilva, Henry or Saka for balance to see how they would have got on. I don't think any would have let us down.

But in my opinion Cirkin is England's most talented or potentially best LB after Chilwell., especially with Dasilva appearing to have stagnated due to Chelsea not giving him chances.

If Cirkin is trusted this year in the EL, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in contention for the Euros next year. But this is also dependent on how we develop Sessegnon, as chances are one will block the other.

That is some pretty huge praise for Cirkin. I assume that means those in the England youth coaching ranks must think highly of him too. I guess the question is whether or not Jose trusts him and more importantly if Cirkin is improving under the first team coaching staff.

at the point in time, who is more trustworthy/ready for LB? Sess or Cirk?

 

[Anuth]

Donley's goal from yesterday

Donley goal

Watch "Donley goal" on Streamable.

streamable.com

 

[Barmby Army]

Following from this and seeing the England squad announced, I actually forgot how bad England's dearth at LB was due to poor planning.

They have Dasilva who I still think is a talent but didn't get the opportunity. I think he could do well there and I think if he did a big club would then buy him. I think Henry could also do a job there. I believe Sessegnon was the one they were hoping would play there but he then got moved forward and now noone really knows where his strength is and Saka could also play there but is actually a winger.

I think England should have chosen one of Dasilva, Henry or Saka for balance to see how they would have got on. I don't think any would have let us down.

But in my opinion Cirkin is England's most talented or potentially best LB after Chilwell., especially with Dasilva appearing to have stagnated due to Chelsea not giving him chances.

If Cirkin is trusted this year in the EL, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in contention for the Euros next year. But this is also dependent on how we develop Sessegnon, as chances are one will block the other.

Saka did a good job there for Arsenal in an emergency, but I don't think either they or he think it's a long term prospect - once Tierney came back, Saka was pushed further forward. He's a fantastic player though, a proper footballer who looks comfortable wherever he's asked to play.

No mention of Williams? He's very raw, but has developed quickly at United and is absolutely fearless, both in his play and in his attitude. I think he is right footed which is a bit of a problem, but he is definitely an option, I'd have him miles ahead of Dasilva, Sessegnon and Cirkin right now.

The lack of a left back is still baffling me this morning. Granted we have a problem with no Chilwell, but when has the answer to a problem ever been 'just ignore it'? I suppose Mings or Gomez will be the options there, but I don't see how either is a better choice than, say, a youngster likely to feature in the near future (Saka, Williams), an experienced head to tide us over until Chilwell is fit (Rose, Young) or even someone like Joe Bryan or Charlie Taylor, who are somewhere in-between - not necessarily considered England quality, but consistent performers who could surprise people if given an opportunity.

 

[IGSpur]

That is some pretty huge praise for Cirkin. I assume that means those in the England youth coaching ranks must think highly of him too. I guess the question is whether or not Jose trusts him and more importantly if Cirkin is improving under the first team coaching staff.

at the point in time, who is more trustworthy/ready for LB? Sess or Cirk?

I can't remember where I read it but I remember someone who has a lot of knowledge on England youth footaball, said that he believes it's very likely he is Englands most well thought of natural LB in all of the youth age groups, which wouldn't surprise me.

He's a better all round FB than KWP imo but KWP was completely dominant and eye catching at RB, which is why I consider him the best FB. I say that to say, I would trust him, but he isn't the type of FB to be bombing around like Pereira who everyone likes etc, so I don't know hwo the fans will take to him. The same way Davies gets criticism I think Cirkin could but I think his ceiling is a lot higher than Davies'. I actually think he will fit Mourinhos system better than Poch's for example, which should help him.

I therefore would trust Cirkin over Sessegnon, even though he is less experienced, to play at LB for us.

 

[IGSpur]

No mention of Williams? He's very raw, but has developed quickly at United and is absolutely fearless, both in his play and in his attitude. I think he is right footed which is a bit of a problem, but he is definitely an option, I'd have him miles ahead of Dasilva, Sessegnon and Cirkin right now.

I haven't seen a lot of Williams but from the little I have, I wouldn't have him over Dasilva or Sessegnon I don't think. I think he's a kid that's stepped in and done well but ultimately won't last, especially at LB.

The lack of a left back is still baffling me this morning. Granted we have a problem with no Chilwell, but when has the answer to a problem ever been 'just ignore it'? I suppose Mings or Gomez will be the options there, but I don't see how either is a better choice than, say, a youngster likely to feature in the near future (Saka, Williams), an experienced head to tide us over until Chilwell is fit (Rose, Young) or even someone like Joe Bryan or Charlie Taylor, who are somewhere in-between - not necessarily considered England quality, but consistent performers who could surprise people if given an opportunity.

I'd probably go Rose, who's the old head to tide is over. He has proven he is good enough for international football and at a point was World Class. If Southgate explained the situation people would understand his selection.